Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] GeoffLems  (Read 10984 times)

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Offline Geoffster

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[NeoLemmix] GeoffLems
« on: August 03, 2014, 01:50:18 am »
v1.1

Release Notes
- updated to use Neo Lemmix v10.13.xx
- autosteel
- no more timed bombings
- backroute fixes

NeoLemmix Player: http://www.neolemmix.com/?page=neolemmix

NXP file: Attached to post

:compat-ver-10-13::compat-yes:
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 12:01:44 pm by Geoffster »

Offline namida

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Re: GeoffLems - v0.01 (remake of the original Lemmings)
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2014, 01:58:18 am »
It's great to see the amount of new levels coming out lately - especially, those that are in the Lemmix format! :D I'll definitely have a look at these at some point today.
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline namida

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Re: GeoffLems - v0.01 (remake of the original Lemmings)
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2014, 03:24:58 am »
Okay, some comments.

First, the version of Lemmix player on Eric's website is a bit outdated - I'd reccomend using the one here. Since you say you avoid glitches and stuff, you could possibly even look at using NeoLemmix for your pack.

If you'd like, I can build a player for you (in either Lemmix or NeoLemmix) that includes all your level files internally, so that you just need to distribute the one EXE file (and the readme, of course). This would also mean that some other things can be customised, such as the title screen logo and the difficulty rank signs and names.

Now, onto the level-specific stuff. I've only played Fun so far, and won't comment on every level:

Fun 5 - It's a bit of a jump from the previous levels, but was definitely creative and fun.
Fun 6 and Fun 7 - These are both great examples of levels that look tricky, but turn out to be quite easy (which they should be for early-Fun position), great job. :)
Fun 8 - I like both the variety of solutions to this level, and how you've made the trap barely visible but in a way that, if spotted, clearly can be identified as a trap. :)
Fun 9 - The exit somewhat hanging over the sides of the block looks a bit strange. The solution to the level is nothing really special, but the visual design of it (apart from that thing with the exit) is really neat! :D
Fun 11 - Pretty nice level! :D
Fun 12 - This is cool! I like how at first it would appear to be an annoying fidgety build-against-diagonal level, but if you look closer there's a way around all that - and the level title also hints at this. :)
Fun 13 - This is a really interesting level! :)
Fun 15 - It appears the steel areas aren't placed too well - though to be fair, under non-Neo Lemmix, that is quite hard to get right, and my packs don't really have it perfect either. Nice level though.
Fun 17 - Another level with a really interesting design! :)
Fun 18 - This seems to be the first level that requires a bit of clever thinking to it - and still very well suited to its position. A nice level for sure!
Fun 19 - Simplistic design but quite a fun one. :) Though... the screen start position seems a bit weird?
Fun 22 - A neat design, though it does take a bit of time to execute...
Fun 24 - Another cool design, and fairly fun to play too. :)
Fun 27 - Neat design. While this is a general thing with this pack (so far), I really like the variety of methods that can be used for this level!
Fun 28 - Screen start position is a bit strange on this one too. Not a bad level though.
Fun 30 - A very nice concept, a pretty cool design, and I'd say a good level to finish off Fun with. :)

Some general comments post-playing Fun:
- You've done a great job on avoiding tediousness. There is the odd level that can be a bit like that, but precisely because they're rare (two levels out of the entire rank that I might consider to be a bit on that side), they don't get annoying at all.
- I really like how the levels have a variety of solutions and do indeed maintain a similar feel to Fun from the original game. Most can be solved with a "block off the crowd and use a worker lemming" approach, which is good for newer players; while at the same time there are other options available, which is good for the more experienced players who get a bit tired of doing that every level. :D
- There's a slight purely-graphical issue in general with your one-way arrows. One-way arrows should generally be set with the "only draw on terrain" flag set ("Gr" in LemEdit, "Only on terrain" in Lemmix editor), that's how the original game has them to disappear when the terrain is removed.
- I'd also say you've done a pretty good job in varying the graphic sets you use, this can be pretty hard to do when you don't have too many to work with (like in this case, where you're only using the Orig ones, not the OhNo ones).

I'll probably look at Tricky later on today. Here's my replays for how I solved Fun - though as I noted, in a lot of levels I was able to find a variety of solutions (which is definitely a very good thing for Fun). Note that I used the updated player that I linked in the previous post, so try with that if any replays don't work (although in general I've never known any compatibility issues between the two, apart from in some levels with three entrances as the older version doesn't have the correct release order under a certain mechanics set (not sure off-hand which one it was wrong in)). Also note that one of them it may look like it's stopped mid-way, but this is actually because I'm waiting for the last lemming to become the new worker after using the terrain to naturally trap the crowd - wait for him to come along and the action will resume. :P
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline Geoffster

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Re: GeoffLems - v0.01 (remake of the original Lemmings)
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2014, 04:22:31 am »
Great comments, thanks!  I will definitely check out the newer versions of Lemmix / NeoLemmix, especially if they are better at tuning steel.  Glad to hear the tediousness in FUN is not so bad, apart from a couple levels.

Taxing & Mayhem are not as polished as Fun & Tricky, so if there are any WTF moments going forward it's possibly a bug...

Offline namida

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Re: GeoffLems - v0.01 (remake of the original Lemmings)
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2014, 04:43:49 am »
The newer version of Lemmix does not change anything with steel, it just adds a few more fine-control features, and improves the accuracy of replicating the original game's functionality. The goal of regular Lemmix is not to improve anything, but rather, to replicate the original games as accurately as possible; glitches, limitations and all.

NeoLemmix on the other hand does indeed improve steel mechanics. Rather than using steel areas, you can just select an option "Autosteel" which will automatically apply steel areas to the metal terrain pieces. (There's also an option "Ignore Level Steel", to save you having to go and manually delete the steel areas you've already set). It also, unlike the original, actually makes steel properly indestructible, while still allowing surrounding non-steel to be destroyed. I attached a screenshot for comparison (using Fun 11 of the original game) to show the result of bombing in both.

The top line is standard Lemmix, the bottom line is NeoLemmix. The ones on the left are bombed directly on the steel, the ones on the right I first placed one builder step, then bombed from on top of that. In all four, the bomber was placed at the exact same position in terms of left-to-right - he was positioned so that if made into a blocker, his hand would be two pixels into the wall.

Results, as you can see:

Traditional, on steel: Nothing is destroyed.
Traditional, on step: Part of the wall and part of the steel are destroyed.
NeoLemmix, both: The steel is untouched, the wall is partly destroyed, either way.

Also worth noting is that trigger areas and object/steel positioning work pixel-perfect in NeoLemmix instead of having to align to a grid, so you don't have to, for example, place exits somewhat stuck in the ground (like on your Fun 9), or have one-way fields that don't quite perfectly line up with the terrain (like on Fun 5).

The NeoLemmix topic contains conversions of most of the official games to NeoLemmix (although Orig needs a few small details fixed still, and OhNo, Holiday 94 and the "Extra" levels (from Genesis, Sega, and other versions) aren't properly converted yet), but if you really want to see NeoLemmix used to it's full potential, the only pack that currently exists that was designed from the ground up for it is my own Lemmings Plus III.
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline namida

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Re: GeoffLems - v0.01 (remake of the original Lemmings)
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2014, 07:20:36 am »
I PM'd you with a download for a slightly modified version of the Orig NeoLemmix player, specifically, it applies the "Enable Autosteel" and "Ignore Level Steel" options on all levels. You can use that to test how well you feel it works for your levels.

Anyway, on to Tricky:

Tricky 1 - A nice level, feels like a good step up from Fun while still being fairly simple.
Tricky 2 - I like the idea of this one! :)
Tricky 4 - Nice!
Tricky 5 - The level execution was a bit annoying, but the design of the level is very nice!
Tricky 6 - This one is pretty neat! Though I wonder what the level name is meant to refer to? Or is it just random?
Tricky 10 - This level does feel like it's drawn out a bit longer than it needs to be, but the concept and the visual appearance are great.
Tricky 12 - Assuming my solution is the way that this is meant to be done, that kind of accuracy in bomber timing feels a bit too hard for mid-Tricky...
Tricky 13 - This is a pretty neat level. :D
Tricky 15 - I didn't think too much of this one, to be honest... :/
Tricky 16 - Bomber timing is generally not thought too highly of... This will also be problematic if you decide to go with NeoLemmix, as bombers are no longer timed there (they go straight to "Ohno!" as soon as they're assigned).
Tricky 20 - Gameplay wise I didn't think too much of this level, but visually it's VERY nice!
Tricky 21 - This level was really neat! :D
Tricky 25 - The time limit is annoyingly tight on this one... :/
Tricky 26 - Assuming I didn't miss something, I think that's a bit too much precision required for a Tricky level. Not a bad level though at all, it's quite good, just a bit misplaced.
Tricky 27 - This is a GREAT level! :D Though again, I feel it's slightly hard for the position.

My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline namida

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Re: GeoffLems - v0.01 (remake of the original Lemmings)
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2014, 09:08:38 am »
First half of Taxing.

Taxing 1 - I think I might've found a backroute* here?
Taxing 2 - This level was EXCELLENT! It took me a while to realise what to do here.
Taxing 3 - This one can be a bit fiddly to execute, but is a nice level.
Taxing 8 - Despite the name, I thought this was a pretty good level. :)
Taxing 10 - This level was actually pretty hard! Good level though.
Taxing 13 - I initially tried a similar approach to the Fun version of this level, but it didn't work out too well. The solution I found in the end was fairly interesting.
Taxing 14 - Time is a bit tight here and doesn't appear to serve any purpose, apart from that, great level!
Taxing 15 - Another slightly strangely-placed screen start position. The level itself is definitely on the easy side, but quite fun. :)

* Since you're new here, you might not know what this means. A "backroute" is a solution that was not intended to be possible. Some of us only consider a solution a "backroute" if it's easier than the intended one or avoids using a trick the level is meant to require using.

These are definitely some very good levels! Just wondering, have you released levels in the past under another name? It just seems that this pack is VERY high quality, especially for a first-timer. :P
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline namida

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Re: GeoffLems - v0.01 (remake of the original Lemmings)
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2014, 10:44:44 am »
Second half of Taxing.

Taxing 16 - This one was an interesting concept. I think the save requirement could be a fair bit higher though - I didn't put *that* much effort into it and still managed 77%.
Taxing 17 - This level is FAR too easy for Taxing... unless you overlooked the way I did it. :P
Taxing 18 - This one took me a while, mostly because I was looking for a left-side solution. When I thought to try the right-side, I found it fairly quickly.
Taxing 19 - A bit simple, but definitely VERY original. :D
Taxing 20 - The start of this level was great, but the end part seemed somewhat pointless...
Taxing 22 - This was a pretty neat level.
Taxing 24 - Another one where the screen start doesn't seem to be set properly... also, I'm pretty sure I found a backroute, as there was no "timing" involved in my solution. :P
Taxing 25 - Great level, though I think it'd be more suited to Mayhem than Taxing.
Taxing 27 - Interesting level, though a bit easy for late-Taxing (definitely would be well suited to early or mid Taxing, though). Also, this level has the "faulty exit" problem.
Taxing 28 - You've overlooked that it's possible to fall directly into an exit. :P Unless that's what you intended, of course.
Taxing 29 - Once again, there's a mechanics detail you've overlooked - although this one is generally considered a glitch (and as such, would not work in NeoLemmix).
Taxing 30 - This trick is VERY well known by now, just saying... :P

We're starting to get into the point where firstly, the levels are starting to get quite challenging, and secondly, backroutes are starting to show up. These two things generally do tend to go hand in hand, so it's nothing to feel bad about - just something you have to fix for the next update! :)
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline exit

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Re: GeoffLems - v0.01 (remake of the original Lemmings)
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2014, 02:20:36 pm »
Wow, namida, you've already finished most of the game.
I can't really take a look at it because I'm working on Holiday cLemmings. You didn't really get carried away; cLemmings is a series of remade lemmings games. But(like namida said) it's good to have this many big levelpacks coming out.

Offline namida

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Re: GeoffLems - v0.01 (remake of the original Lemmings)
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2014, 02:34:49 pm »
First half of Mayhem:

Mayhem 2 - THIS WAS AN EXCELLENT LEVEL! :D It took me quite a while to work out what to do here - highly impressed!
Mayhem 3 - Getting past the trap at the end, given the limited builders, was a bit annoying. That aside, this is a pretty neat level - and a very cool design!
Mayhem 5 - Not sure if this is a backroute, or just a cleverly-disguised solution...
Mayhem 6 - This one felt a little bit on the easy side...
Mayhem 7 - Not sure if you intended the first exit to be fake or not. If you did, in traditional Lemmix you should set its index to 16 or higher; while in NeoLemmix, there's a specific setting in the object properties for fake ("Fk" in NeoLemEdit, "Fake" in NeoLemmix Editor). Anyway, only a slight variation on my solution is needed to reach the other exit. And good job on hinting in the level title that there's otherwise-almost-invisible traps here. :) Another pack that was released recently, hidden traps very quickly became a major frustration (don't get me wrong - aside from that, the pack I'm referring to here was very good) - but in your pack, this is the only level (at least so far) to have them and the level title clearly hints at their presence. :)
Mayhem 8 - This was a good level, but definitely too easy for Mayhem.
Mayhem 9 - This one is another one with a weirdly-set screen start position. But, it would seem "Plan B" is perfectly viable. :P (It's worth noting that, while an oddity with steel mechanics is used, if that oddity wasn't there, my solution has a spare builder that could be used in place of relying on that). This was a VERY good level anyway.
Mayhem 10 - This one was definitely pretty unique. At first the 35 builders and the apparent need to build up to the top makes it look quite tedious, but the actual solution turned out to be quite fun.
Mayhem 12 - You haven't included a Mayhem 12! So it just gives the original game's Mayhem 12 instead... :P
Mayhem 13 - This was a really good level!
Mayhem 14 - This one was great! Had me stuck for quite a while.
Mayhem 15 - I looked initially for a solution similar to what I did on the earlier version of this level, but the solution I found in the end was actually rather simple... :/

Definitely some great levels here! :D

Also, just wondering - why are you using the high-res graphics for the screenshots, when Lemmix itself uses the low-res ones? It's a tad misleading, that's all... :/
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline namida

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Re: GeoffLems - v0.01 (remake of the original Lemmings)
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2014, 05:52:03 pm »
Second half of Mayhem:

Mayhem 16 - A bit on the easy side. :/ Not at all a bad level though.
Mayhem 17 - This one was pretty clever! Took me a while!
Mayhem 18 - I'm not sure what I think of this one. I like the final solution, but this level gets very annoying while working it out, especially with how high the trap can reach. :/
Mayhem 19 - I like this one! :D
Mayhem 20 - Another pretty good one. :)
Mayhem 21 - This one's a bit fidgety... :/
Mayhem 22 - This one takes a lot of precision, but that can't really be helped with this puzzle under traditional Lemmix (using NeoLemmix would give one extra pixel of room for error on the precise moves, though that's still not much). And with that being said, it's well worth it - because I think this is the best level in this pack! :D
Mayhem 23 - This is a great, really creative level! :)
Mayhem 25 - This one was fairly interesting.
Mayhem 26 - Not bad, though I think this would be more suited to mid-Mayhem than late.
Mayhem 27 - Another fairly interesting one.
Mayhem 28 - Sorry to say, but I did not like this level at all. Really annoying level. :/
Mayhem 29 - This idea has really been done to death by now... :P
Mayhem 30 - A fun level, but very easy for its position.

Okay so having completed the whole pack (apart from the missing Mayhem 12), I must say that this is an excellent pack - yes, there were a few levels I wasn't too fond of, but I don't think it'd even be possible to make a pack where everyone likes every level. :P Well done!
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline mobius

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Re: GeoffLems - v0.01 (remake of the original Lemmings)
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2014, 10:37:41 pm »
hey, I remember you from the youtubes. I liked your levels and these look nice and designed well. I will try them out if I get the chance
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Offline Geoffster

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Re: GeoffLems - v0.01 (remake of the original Lemmings)
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2014, 12:59:52 am »
Thanks again namida for all the feedback.  You've given me a lot to work with. :) 
If you have time, could you message me the backroutes you found in Taxing 24 and Mayhem 5?

This is the first set of custom levels I've posted online.  Naturally there a few meh ones... When I first started making levels, I just made maps that looked nice (like Tricky 5) but ultimately I would prefer to have tighter levels with creative solutions.

I'll probably take a short break before doing v0.02, and then re-work or replace the more tedious levels (you've confirmed my suspicious about Tricky 15 and Mayhem 28, for example.)

I can see why timed bombing levels are frowned upon.  I don't mind them as long as they are the "theme" of a short level.  Although these must get old after a while.



Offline geoo

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Re: GeoffLems - v0.01 (remake of the original Lemmings)
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2014, 01:20:42 am »
I've played through Tricky and the first half of Mayhem to get an idea what this level pack is about - and I have to say, this is a great level pack from what I've seen so far! I feel this is what the original lemmings should have been like, instead of mostly long and straight-forward levels. I also like that you put a lot of effort into making the levels look pretty.

I agree with namida on most accounts here, so I'm leaving just a few notes:

Tricky 3: Found a bad backroute here.
Tricky 16: bomber timing is pretty relentless here.
Tricky 20: I find levels actively featuring those bones kinda annoying as you have to look closely where the lemmings can go and where they can't. Similar issue with the cones from the hell set, but there because you can only assign skills every second frame.
Tricky 21: This is definitely among my favourites from Tricky (together with Tricky 27), but I feel it's a bit hard for its position.
Tricky 29: I first thought I had to do something smart here (making bomber holes at the left/right between the crystals to cluster the crowd and release them perfectly timed so they get to the exit right as the bridge is finished), but then I was pretty disappointed when the straight-foward approach worked. Felt kinda pointless.

Mayhem 2: Even though it didn't give me too much trouble, I love this one too!
Mayhem 4: Found this one annoying again, you need some precise bomber timing, or at least resorting to it makes the level easier.
Mayhem 5: I'm pretty sure my solution is a backroute, either way I think this one is a bit hard for its position.
Mayhem 11: It's a tough puzzle, but the execution is super annoying here mostly due to the cones.

Attached are my solutions.

Offline namida

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Re: GeoffLems - v0.01 (remake of the original Lemmings)
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2014, 01:35:20 am »
Thanks again namida for all the feedback.  You've given me a lot to work with. :) 
If you have time, could you message me the backroutes you found in Taxing 24 and Mayhem 5?

I've attached my replays for all levels to the posts in which I've covered them. If you aren't already aware, to view these, go to the level in question in Lemmix and press "L" to open a window where you can choose the replay to load. (To save one, press "U".)

Quote
I'll probably take a short break before doing v0.02, and then re-work or replace the more tedious levels (you've confirmed my suspicious about Tricky 15 and Mayhem 28, for example.)

Tricky 15 wasn't nessecerially a bad level (it's the kind of level that does get very annoying if there's a lot like it, but isn't too bad if there's just one or two here and there). It's just not one I was overly fond of.

Quote
I can see why timed bombing levels are frowned upon.  I don't mind them as long as they are the "theme" of a short level.  Although these must get old after a while.

Indeed - my reccomendation would be to use them only if providing blockers would enable backroutes. Alternatively, if you like, I can make you a customized player that removes the countdown (so bombers explode immediately) - NeoLemmix players always do this anyway, but I can also build a standard Lemmix player with this feature.
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings