Author Topic: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution  (Read 12945 times)

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Offline LemSteven

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Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2020, 12:09:25 am »
9-4: Booby trap

Lemmings: 50
Save: 46
Time: 8:00
Release Rate: 50
Skills: 5 Climbers, 10 Floaters, 5 Bombers, 2 Blockers, 3 Builders, 3 Bashers, 3 Miners, 2 Diggers

Good: A race to hit the switch and release the crowd a weasel-induced massacre occurs.  The switch on the way to the exit makes it so the crowd has to be reasonably bunched up, otherwise the stragglers will become weasel punching bags.

Bad: Wow, where do I start? 

First of all, the process of hitting the switch is so simple it's almost trivial.  This is by far the least interesting of the levels that have used this theme.

Next, the teleporter is glitched almost to the point of being game-breaking.  It's designed so that the lemmings turn back toward the exit as they are exiting the teleporter; unfortunately, sometimes I've had multiple lemmings get sucked back into the teleporter going the other way, returning to the start where the weasels are waiting for them.  This entire problem could have been eliminated by simply reversing the positions of the teleporter and exit, or even eliminating the teleporter altogether and just moving the exit down.

Third, it only takes two bridges to make a wall that holds back the weasels, which defeats the entire "quick as you can" concept.

Lastly, What is with the switches being in the form of those weird boxes?  This is the only level in the game in which they appear, and they don't appear to serve any purpose that can't be fulfilled by switches or laser gates.

Offline mobius

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Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2020, 12:20:41 am »
Lastly, What is with the switches being in the form of those weird boxes?  This is the only level in the game in which they appear, and they don't appear to serve any purpose that can't be fulfilled by switches or laser gates.

Actually they also appear in "T is for teamwork" half sunken into the ground near the entrance. Lemmings trigger them there. I don't have an answer to your question other than they're a bit smaller than gates or switches? Also it appears like they're hit box could be larger and lemmings/weasels just need to be near them to trigger.

9-5 Hit 'n' Run

11 Lemmings
save: 10
10:00
10 climbers, bombers, blockers, bashers, miners and diggers. 2 Builders, 0 floaters.


Good: An interesting challenge where most of the level is down upside down.
This is one of the few late game levels with the bright candy land background.

Bad: I've never figured out what the intended solution is. Because every solution I've seen involves glitching through the gravity inverter near the lava pool and flipping the switch while still upside down.

The layout of this level feels odd and sort of slapped together. Somethings don't seem to really have much use like the speed up pads. The weasel goes through two which cancel each other so he walks at normal speed; thus he's not really much of a threat.
"All things are empty... Whoever can see this no longer needs anything to attain."
-The Heart Sutra

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
-the Dude


Offline LemSteven

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Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2020, 05:27:03 am »
Actually they also appear in "T is for teamwork" half sunken into the ground near the entrance.

Good catch!  I forgot that they appeared in that level.

Bad: I've never figured out what the intended solution is. Because every solution I've seen involves glitching through the gravity inverter near the lava pool and flipping the switch while still upside down.

I think flipping the switch while still upside down is the intended solution.  I'm not sure it's possible to get to it any other way.  Although I'm not sure I'd call building just before the gravity inverter a glitch.

9-6: The high dive

Lemmings: 40
Save: 20
Time: 5:00
Release Rate: 5
Skills: 10 Climbers, 10 Bombers, 10 Blockers, 10 Builders, 10 Bashers, 10 Diggers

Good: A fun, open-ended level with a variety of possible solutions.
Bad: In the initial release of the game, this level was unplayable due to a glitch.  Fortunately this was fixed in later versions.  Also, the level is way too easy for its position in the game; it is more suitable for the 5th or 6th column.

Offline mobius

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Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2020, 11:47:37 pm »
oh duh... I forgot about building over it.

9-7 Battle o'Lemmeckburn (not sure of spelling as I'm going off memory; Pirohiko's videos are in Japanese)
Lemmings: 50
Save: 43
10:00

Good: *finally* we're getting into the really good (and tough) levels! (imho). This one offers quite a complex challenge, relatively speaking; there's a lot going on. There's a deadly fall height to mitigate, a giant birb, a pool being lowered and raised continually, another weasel to get around, and the exit area which is no simple task in of itself. There are a number of ways to get up and through to the balloon but all aren't trivial as skill conversation is a big thing here. The low save requirement allows for a variety of solutions and it's not aggravating, but also allows for more challenging solutions as well.

Bad: pirohiko demonstrates a backroute bypassing most of the level; though I'd argue this is equally or harder to execute and/or see. I can't think of much bad to say about this level.

Does anyone know what the title is reference to?
"All things are empty... Whoever can see this no longer needs anything to attain."
-The Heart Sutra

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
-the Dude


Offline Proxima

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Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« Reply #49 on: June 19, 2020, 12:00:33 am »
9-7 Battle o'Lemmeckburn
Does anyone know what the title is reference to?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bannockburn

Offline Nessy

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Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2020, 01:50:55 am »
9-8: Feeling Gravity's Pull

Lemmings: 56
Save: 50
Time: 6:00
Release Rate: 1
Skills: 2 Climbers, 10 Bombers, 2 Blockers, 12 Builders, 4 Bashers, 4 Miners, 8 Diggers

Good: Oh boy this one's a fairly tough one! There are a ton of moving parts to the level such as switches, lasers, teleporters, and upside-down and it isn't trivial on how to approach them all especially with a deceptively large amount of skills.

Bad: I'm going off of memory so I'm not 100% sure but I think that it is possible to hit the switches in such an order that the lower platforms over the balloon are opened before the top ones are which leads to the main crowd of lemmings actually splatting as they fall towards the balloon. There is no indication as to what switch opens what and it comes down to a small amount of trail and error. Nothing too major but it can still suck for it to happen after going through all the trouble of solving the rest of the level.

Offline LemSteven

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Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2020, 06:04:46 pm »
9-9: It's a hard life

Lemmings: 50 (2 entrances)
Save: 45
Time: 7:00
Release Rate: 69
Skills: 1 Climber, 2 Floaters, 4 Bombers, 4 Blockers, 8 Builders, 1 Basher, 2 Miners, 5 Diggers

Good: A nice puzzle in which the small group by the exit must dig out a tunnel for the larger crowd.  Unlike "Ice Station Lemming" in ONML, the main crowd cannot get up to the exit without assistance from the other group.

Bad: The retractable wall is virtually useless, since you cannot build in front of it.  The first time I played the level, I failed because I had the entire crowd stuck in front of the retractable wall, just under the exit, with no way to get them up.  Also, connecting a bridge to the completed miner tunnel can be a bit finicky, requiring some precise builder placement.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2020, 06:17:49 pm by LemSteven »

Offline mobius

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Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2020, 01:45:14 am »
It just occurs to me now that the Release Rate of "69" appears suspiciously frequently in this game....

9-10 Waste Not Want Not (part 1)

Lemmings: 10
Save: 10
Time: 10:00
Release Rate: 50
Skills: 1 Climber, 1 Floaters, 10 Bombers, 10 Blockers, 2 Builders, 10 Basher, 10 Miners, 10 Diggers



Good: This one was a major stumper for me back in the day. It offers a really interesting challenge of classic Lemmings skill allotment combined with a timing/resource management puzzle around the doors near the entrance area. There are a lot of possible paths to take. It's not clear at all, for example, where the climber/worker should go from the start, or in what order he should do things. Also how to manage the crowd is a big problem. And there are a rather large number of solutions to top it off.
This is one of my favorites of the whole game actually.

Bad: honestly can't think of anything other than usual game issues that effect every level so that doesn't count. (like 'background' graphics getting in the way of sight).
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 03:30:55 pm by mobius »
"All things are empty... Whoever can see this no longer needs anything to attain."
-The Heart Sutra

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
-the Dude


Offline LemSteven

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Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« Reply #53 on: July 06, 2020, 02:44:47 am »
9-11: Ouch me head.

Lemmings: 50
Save: 50
Time: 5:00
Release Rate: 50
Skills: 1 Climber, 1 Floater, 15 Builders, 2 Miners, 2 Diggers

Good: The level is quite a bit trickier than it initially looks, due to the 100% save requirement.  The first issue is how to deal with the crowd.  Experienced players will immediately know to make a digger pit, but this may not be obvious to first-timers.  Completing the route can then be done in several ways, but none of them are trivial, and many of them require quite a bit of work.  My personal favorite solution is to work backwards -- have the trailblazer build a long bridge initially, float down, turn around, and build from left to right over the water, using the steel as stepping stones.  Then send up a climber to mine the original bridge, and release the crowd.

Bad: With proper builder placement, the direct approach of building from right to left works just fine.  It is in fact possible to complete the level with just 5 builders and a digger -- nothing else.  I really wish at least one of the drops was a splat fall to prevent this from working.

Offline Nessy

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Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« Reply #54 on: July 06, 2020, 11:14:56 pm »
10-1: Topsy Turvy

Lemmings: 100
Save: 98
Time: 10:00
Skills: 2 Climbers, 1 Bomber, 2 Blockers, 20 Builders, 7 Diggers

Good: A very fun and tough puzzle involving the bottom hatch of lemmings having to go towards the top of the level to save the top hatch of lemmings. However, instead of having the lemmings fight against gravity to climb up the level they have to take advantage of the gravity inverters in order to go downwards which is actually going upwards.

Bad: Because of the large quantity of builders you can kind of backroute the level by having the top hatch of lemmings take advantage of all those builders to pretty much save themselves. Also it's a shame that the "monster" that acts as a hazard in this level doesn't appear in any other level :(

Offline mobius

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Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« Reply #55 on: Today at 12:07:55 am »
10-2 The Legend of Smelly Belly

Lemmings: 15
Save: 15
Time: 10:00
Skills:
15 Climber, 10 bomber, 20 Builders, 10 Diggers

Good: Funny title. Interesting puzzle. This is the only place in the game I think where you get lemmings locked in a steel room with the only way out to re-open the time door. The excess skills make the challenge focus solely on how to deal with circumventing the weasel traps.


Bad: I can't remember correctly; it seems like there may be a backroute of letting them all our of the entrance room without getting to the gates but I'm doubt it.
The three middle weasel tiers look identical at first glance but they're not. The gates are offset such that building over some are easy while the bottom one is harder.
"All things are empty... Whoever can see this no longer needs anything to attain."
-The Heart Sutra

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
-the Dude


Offline LemSteven

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Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« Reply #56 on: Today at 01:06:07 am »
10-3: Where's Carol Vorderlem?

Lemmings: 10
Save: 4
Time: 20:00
Release Rate: 25
Skills: 2 Climbers, 2 Floaters, 6 Bombers, 6 Blockers, 10 Builders, 10 Bashers, 10 Miners, 10 Diggers

Good: An interesting and fun puzzle in which the crowd has to divide and conquer to reach all four laser gates, while the two trailblazers prepare the route and ultimately release the lemmings from their "prisons".  It is quite satisfying to save all 10 lemmings, and I like how the lemmings hit the gravity inverter at the top of the level and fall directly into the balloon.

Bad: Why on earth is the save requirement only 4/10?  I'll admit that 10/10 is pretty challenging, but 4/10 allows you to completely ignore rescuing three of the four "groups"!  The 20-minute time limit doesn't make much sense to me, either.  Even if you don't multitask the digging at the beginning, I don't see how it could take that long.

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Level Review--Lemmings Revolution
« Reply #57 on: Today at 01:55:06 am »
Fascinating. 3 reviews by the same 3 people who have revived the thread and been reviewing the levels repeatedly all in the same day. I recently reinstalled the game, and I definitely would jump on the wagon and help you gentlemen with the reviews, but I got other priorities atm, namely, beating Lemmings United first. You three will probably even be done with all the levels before I can join in! We'll see.