Hi everyone.

I did say that I was going to solely focus on the second pack I am making, but I had a bit of a mood change, because I felt like this pack was left a tad unfinished and I don't feel right doing that, so I'm hoping this update will help round it off into a complete pack. Please find NotaLems V2.1 attached in the original post.

Patch Notes

The easy rank is in a much better spot now, I feel the Levels are in a good order with the tutorials, a couple of simple solution levels in the middle and a little bit of a challenge towards and at the end. Just a few minor tweaks to help it become complete based around the feedback I have been given.

General Patch
Updated all levels with a new random ID to prevent any replays being bugged.

Easy Rank

Easy 1 to 12 - Updated pre-text to be correct.
Easy 10 - Changed position of the trap doors, updated Lemming save requirement, added Bronze talisman (designed for newer players)
Easy 12 - Fixed trap not being in the correct spot.
Easy 13 - Halved the Lemming Count.
Easy 25 - Upped the release rate to 92.

The Medium rank in still intended to be a challenge for newer players, it is intended that some of the levels are a little bit of trial and error as part of the satisfaction of solving.  For myself when I played the game for the first time on the old Amiga 500 was discovering what I could do. I reiterate that solving Postcard from Lemmingland is still up there with my greatest gaming achievements when I was a child,  with that in mind I have decided to keep levels like Medium 8 as they are for players to possibly feel that.
I feel it's important to try keep this pack interesting all the way through so I have removed "What lurks beyond" and "They're everywhere" as I agree that single spam levels are not the most entertaining, therefore I have moved 2 of the easier "Tough" levels to this rank.

Medium Rank

Medium 10-15 - Levels in different order due to removal of "They're everywhere"
Medium 15 - Now "Crystal Clear?"
Medium 17 - Now "Rope Swing"
Medium 28 - Level redesigned for a tougher challenge, Talisman Updated ("Pole Dance" was a quick addition from my second pack, I have updated it in order to fit in with it's place in the medium rank)

With the move of 2 tough levels to the Medium Rank, I have added 2 new Tough Levels in order to fill the void. I hope they offer a challenge for you, I would love to hear your feedback on them!

Tough Rank

Tough 2 to 10 - Now one level up in order due to the removal of "Rope Swing" and "Crystal Clear?"
Tough 9 - Added Steel to prevent backroute (a big oversight on my part, I hope this offers a better challenge)
Tough 11 - New level "Mogok Stone Tract"
Tough 14 - New level "Construction Yard"

Okay, here's a first draft for the complete Picnic rank (30 levels). I've made the N-of-each levels continue up to Level 25, then switched to a few of the easier levels with specific skills. At this point, it's pretty arbitrary which levels go in late Picnic, which in early Hootenanny, and which in early pack 2, so any levels I missed can go in one of the others -- and it's easy to switch levels around later if we want.

I must note at this point, we've had more discussion about the issue of levels duplicated with other packs, because this does not have an easy answer, so the best we can do is to try to find a middle ground. In addition to the Mazu, Clam and Insane Steve packs that were explicitly mentioned in the poll, weirdybeardy and Crane have both made their own packs that have a lot of overlap with RotL v4, and a NL conversion for Ben Bryant's levels is in progress. If we were strict about having no duplicate levels, we'd be down to 200 before cutting on grounds of quality; and while it's certainly a possibility to cut the project down to a single smaller pack, I don't think it's what anyone wants. Besides, this strictness would be self-defeating: what if someone makes a conversion pack for Ellischant's levels, for example, in the future?

mobius made a point on discord that I very much agree with: "If a level is well known, then chances are people have already played it and it may feel out of place in the pack. [...] Dodo's small pack levels weren't included in this consideration, so they're allowed. Why? Idk, at some point we have to admit we're just making up arbitrary rules here and decide what's best."

So (after talking with the others), what we've decided to do is basically a two-step process: first populate each rank with non-duplicate levels, then if it feels like a good idea, duplicate levels may be used to fill up the rank. This has the advantage of treating all duplicate levels the same (the Mazu/Clam/IS ones as well as the weirdybeardy/Crane/Ben Bryant ones; so it is possible that some Mazu/Clam/IS levels will be reintroduced).

With that said, my notes on the level selection for this draft of Picnic:

1-1 to 1-8: As before. 1-2 renamed to "Demon's Gate" since it's no longer a blocker tutorial.
1-9: Replaced "Gotta Save 'Em All!" with "Pipe Dream" as discussed above.
1-10 to 1-15: As before.
1-16: Snowy Caves. WillLem liked this level, so I included it, but that meant I was a bit stricter on other builder-heavy levels since we don't want to have too many.
1-17 to 1-20: As before.

1-21 Nothing Gold Can Stay: Moved from 1-16 as it's quite tricky for a 5-of-each.
1-22 Vacuum: A quite interesting Brick 5-of-each; including this makes up for dropping Hedonist.
1-23 Canopy Lemmings: Definitely a more interesting Rock 10-of-all than Biosphere. As mentioned above, since geoo was against 10-of-all repeats I will remove this level if he wants, though I would really like to keep it.
1-24 LEMTRIS: Down to 4-of-each, so this is more of a puzzle and serves as a transition out of the any-way-you-want levels. (If people feel it's too tough for this placement, we could move it up.)
1-25 It's eight-hero time: Cute 1-of-each level.
1-26 A Cold Day in Heck: Pretty simple puzzle level, although I'm not sure this is okay as the first limited-skills level. (But I'm saving "First Things First" to be the pack 2 opener.)
1-27 Brick City: Well-liked level, so we're obviously keeping this.
1-28 Emergency: A bit complicated, but each part individually is simple, and one group rescuing the other has already shown up in Neighbors, so maybe this is okay here?
1-29 Patience, Young Grasshopper: While this is a 10-of-each repeat, it is definitely the hardest of them, so putting it here at the end.
1-30 The Final Countdown: Feels appropriate for a rank closer. This is a Crane level, but it's surely one we want to keep.

Of the dropped levels, Hedonist and Biosphere won't appear at all, since we have enough N-of-each levels at this point. Same goes for the easy version of Crystal Caves, but we may use the original level.

For now, I have removed all talismans; we will decide on these later once the level selection is final.

Quote from: Baldem1990 on April 21, 2026, 01:12:04 AMHe will cut the box into a hill with a chainsaw.

put the image into ms paint

QuoteThank you for the solution and the head up kaywhyn.
I downloaded the dirt and dirt_md styles again, and the solution provided by MASTER-88 works fine now. For some reason my dirt styles were wrong.

Nice job you got it fixed. Im not really understand any word about this. Its good you got it work.

There might be reason about it. This pack was maded older Neolemmings version. Newest version break many replays when we used sliders or fencers, because mechanims changes.

Just recommend when you play my older packs. Use just older neolemmings. Im not are test those pack my new neo lemmings version. Oh yeah More lemmings is only pack which is played and testen newest neolemmings version. Orginally create it older version.

Thats reason when replays goes sometimes break my older packs. No riski about Custom +1 and no Risk Oh yeah More lemmings.

Quote from: JawaJuice on April 24, 2026, 10:59:32 AMSorry, I should have mentioned the trap was misplaced - I assumed this was done on purpose for some weird reason (not sure why I'd assume that haha). FYI, I usually scan a new level with CPM as a matter of course to scan for hidden nasties such as hidden terrain or traps (which I don't like, so use CPM as a tool in my arsenal to defy them); I noticed the misplaced trap then, so exploited it in my solution. Not sure why I didn't mention that!

Yea, makes sense It's a perfectly valid way of playing, even if some, such as myself, normally don't use and activate CPM during gameplay and only checks after the fact I simply prefer to send a Lemming there to see myself what it is, when in fact I could avoid all doubt and save a lot of time by activating CPM beforehand. Needless to say, I know the features are there, I just prefer to not use some of them Or rarely.

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 24, 2026, 10:06:24 AM

Quote from: JawaJuice on April 24, 2026, 09:29:57 AMCheck my replay I was pretty sure I had the latest versions of all levels before attempting them, but I'd like to know if that wasn't the case.

Thanks, but didn't have to. Checked the level in the editor and ah, didn't realize the first trap is completely misplaced so that it doesn't kill the Lemmings! Now I see that it is indeed possible to save everyone thanks to the misplaced trap! I've now edited my feedback to reflect this newfound knowledge  

Sorry, I should have mentioned the trap was misplaced - I assumed this was done on purpose for some weird reason (not sure why I'd assume that haha). FYI, I usually scan a new level with CPM as a matter of course to scan for hidden nasties such as hidden terrain or traps (which I don't like, so use CPM as a tool in my arsenal to defy them); I noticed the misplaced trap then, so exploited it in my solution. Not sure why I didn't mention that!

Quote from: JawaJuice on April 24, 2026, 09:29:57 AMCheck my replay I was pretty sure I had the latest versions of all levels before attempting them, but I'd like to know if that wasn't the case.

Thanks, but didn't have to. Checked the level in the editor and ah, didn't realize the first trap is completely misplaced so that it doesn't kill the Lemmings! Now I see that it is indeed possible to save everyone thanks to the misplaced trap! I've now edited my feedback to reflect this newfound knowledge  

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 24, 2026, 12:46:12 AMEasy 12 "Lemmings death" - Lemmings should have an apostrophe. As for the level, yea, I think this is a bit better for demonstrating that traps can only kill one Lemming at a time. The only thing I'm not seeing is how it's possible to save everyone here Unless the level changed since the time JawaJuice resolved it for which it's possible to.

Check my replay I was pretty sure I had the latest versions of all levels before attempting them, but I'd like to know if that wasn't the case.

@Guigui

Congrats on clearing pack and glad to hear you enjoyed it! As you were able to figure out the infamous Mayhem 21, one of my levels in Lemmings Memories shouldn't be a problem for you then

Fun fact: I have a level called Bubble Trouble, which was the very first custom Lemmings level I ever made, back when I first started in 2021. I totally forgot Deceit had a level called that for his pack!  

I've looked through the list of packs and I can't believe I missed this, but, seeing as you're a math teacher, I'm sure you'll enjoy Integral Lemmings. For tan x's first level pack, it is a bit on the tough side, but it doesn't get as hard as LemRunner does IMO.

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3993.0

Along with this, Renaissance Lemmings should be fine as well. It's much shorter, at only 10 levels, but it's probably just as hard as (maybe even a bit harder than) Integral Lemmings.

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4238.0

However, if you're looking for something easier than the ones I suggested above, most definitely give Lemmings Faithful a look:

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6714.0

The new tilesets by Dexter are all really nice! Essentially, if you don't bother with the talismans, then all the levels are quite easy, as they're intended to be open-ended. As such, they work the exact same way as the newly added Alpha rank in Integral Lemmings. Some of the talismans are quite tough but really good.