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Bugs & Suggestions / [Discussion] Complex talismans
« Last post by Proxima on Today at 09:04:19 pm »
In Lemmings Plus I, the Medi 1 talisman doesn't display correctly in-game because it has too many requirements (it has a maximum allowed number for every skill). It does display correctly in the talisman list, but it's not ideal to have to exit play to go and look at that.

Another concern is that the more requirements a talisman has, the harder it is to remember exactly what the requirements are; and it's not much fun if you have to keep exiting play to check them. Maybe there should just be a limit on how many requirements a talisman is allowed to have?
It was the very first thing that came to mind, precisely because you clearly don't have enough skills to go up the left side :P (It helped that the trick was fresh in my mind as I had played another level with the same trick last night -- "Coalburner" from Lemmings Plus I.)
What I meant in that regard is that, as a lower-level player on Singularity, you'd probably be tempted to build up the left hand side.  Even if you're more experienced, you probably wouldn't think to do Duality's beautiful sacrifice, mainly because of the number of tools you have.
(for an example where the harder solution is disguised, take a look at "Singularity" and its repeat in Armageddon, "Duality")

I think we shouldn't get too far ahead of ourselves in terms of looking at the later levels when the early ones still need attention, but since you brought it up, I had a look at Duality.

I'm not sure what you mean by "disguised"; it seems very straightforward.
One thing you might find insightful is namida's playthrough of the pack:
SuperLemmini / Re: SuperLemmini 0.104
« Last post by LanaAndCo on Today at 07:15:46 pm »
Could you attach the problematic level file so that I can maybe determine what went wrong?
You're lucky I still have some of the old levels I did for testing SuperLemmini 0.103b. Here's one of them, it should have the same problem.
But WillLem's proposed changes are too drastic. If there are any levels that can't work without drastic changes, we should accept that they don't belong in a "best-of" pack and cut them.

Yeah, this is a fair comment as far as Song of the Lemming goes, I took quite a bit of creative licence with that one!

However, I'd maintain that my version of Arrows is probably more to the point of it being a tutorial level for using the directional arrows. The original can be solved by just using a digger pit and some builders. I'd like to see what the consensus is on this before it gets dismissed completely.

Perhaps these contributions serve as benchmarks for what might constitute a "drastic" change, in which case I've helped to define that, at least...! :crylaugh:
It is true that the one-way arrows are intended to be steel.  I'll see if I can cleanly add in steel plates for Perfect Harmony.

For Song of the Lemming, I would argue for keeping the left-facing one-way arrows because putting steel there might make the level a bit too hard for Picnic, what with trying to navigate all the water pools, plus it would make the best solution too similar to its repeat (for an example where the harder solution is disguised, take a look at "Singularity" and its repeat in Armageddon, "Duality").

I have the raw files for Revenge of the Lemmings somewhere, given to me by möbius some years back, but I don't know which hard drive they're on.

Also, part of me likes to have a time limit in every level for this pack, even if it is far more time than you'll ever need, because it's meant to have a traditional feel to it, not least because of it only using the original 8 tools and no switches, zombies or neutrals etc.  Also, it disguises the levels that have a genuine time crunch to them.

UPDATE: Here's Perfect Harmony with steel instead of the mixed one-way arrows, and what I think is the intended solution.  I also shrunk one of the water pools to make the solution fairer (otherwise the second miner would be one pixel away from death).
SuperLemmini / Re: SuperLemmini 0.104
« Last post by uci on Today at 06:39:38 pm »
Noticed something weird in level COVOX Lemmings - Taxing - IceTown: lemmings do fall into the frozen water instead of being drown!
...these objects were deliberately marked as fake to imitate the original game.)
Is there a way to implement a switch to become fully compatible with Lemmini? I like its engine, but I prefer SuperLemmini due to its GUI improvements.

Another one, in level Lemmings Companion - Fun - For Every Lemming, Turn, Turn... the trap on the left does not trigger. Is this due to different game mechanics or wrong positioning?
In this case, the trap actually does work, but it's placed a little too high. If you build where the trigger area is (on the left), the trap should start killing lemmings.
So, this is another difference compared to Lemmini. There it works just fine. 8-)

For "Song of the Lemming" and its sequel, if the dual one-way arrows were intended to be, in effect, a steel area, why not replace them with actual steel now that we can do that?

I feel strongly that because this is a "best-of" pack, we should limit changes to ones that make the same levels work better, rather than redesigning them into our own levels based on the originals. For instance, unlimited time and steel in the Bubble set weren't available when these levels were made, but it's a reasonable guess that the designers might have used them if they had been. We can fix backroutes that the original designers may have not fixed because they didn't find them. But WillLem's proposed changes are too drastic. If there are any levels that can't work without drastic changes, we should accept that they don't belong in a "best-of" pack and cut them.
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