6

Here's a list of features from the "Fun" levels, for reference:

Fun level features

Group	#	Level	Features
Fun	1	Just Dig!	Single skill which can be applied to multiple lemmings (but doesn't affect the amount saved unless misused, i.e. digging through the lower floor), single obstacle
Fun	2	Only Floaters Can Survive This	Single skill which can be applied to multiple lemmings in order to save all (not required), lemmings will die if nothing is done, splat falls
Fun	3	Tailor Made For Blockers	Multiple obstacles, accessible gaps (used to block the route), nuke-to-finish
Fun	4	Now Use Miners And Climbers	Multiple skills, one of which must be applied to multiple lemmings to meet the save requirement
Fun	5	You Need Bashers This Time	Dealing with mesh terrain, first appearance of water (only accessible if skills are misused)
Fun	6	A Task For Blockers And Bombers	Sacrificial skills, plus first appearance of steel and fire objects (albeit decoratively, i.e. they cannot be reached)
Fun	7	Builders Will Help You Here	Crowd management and/or building out of a pit
Fun	8	Not As Complicated As It Looks	First level to offer all 8 skills, water as an accessible danger (rather than decorative)
Fun	9	As Long As You Try Your Best	Dealing with RR99, fire object as an accessible danger (rather than decorative)
Fun	10	Smile If You Love Lemmings	Lemmings in immediate danger, accessible steel (but not used to block the route)
Fun	11	Keep Your Hair On Mr. Lemming	One-Way Walls, sending a single worker lemming to prepare the route for the pre-contained crowd, splat falls, floor is steel so cannot be dug into
Fun	12	Patience	Dealing with RR99
Fun	13	We All Fall Down	Mandatory repetitive skill assignment, splat falls
Fun	14	Origins And Lemmings	Splat falls, large map with a range of possible solutions
Fun	15	Don't Let Your Eyes Deceive You	Multiple obstacles, accessible gap (used to block the route), accessible trap (but not used to block the route)
Fun	16	Don't Do Anything Too Hasty	Containing the crowd whilst sending a worker ahead to prepare the route, accessible water (but not used to directly block the route - it's necessary to build to the exit platform anyway)
Fun	17	Easy When You Know How	Accessible steel (used to block the route)
Fun	18	Let's Block And Blow	Accessible fire objects (used to block the route)
Fun	19	Take Good Care Of My Lemmings	Crowd containment whilst sending a worker to prepare the route, accessible gap
Fun	20	We Are Now At LEMCON ONE	Multiple obstacles, accessible water (used to block the route)
Fun	21	You Live And Lem	Multiple obstacles, accessible trap (used to block the route)
Fun	22	A Beast Of A Level	Special graphic
Fun	23	I've Lost That Lemming Feeling	Multiple exits, one of which is hidden, accessible water and fire objects(used to block the route)
Fun	24	Konbanwa Lemming San	RR99, multiple objects used to block the route, multiple workers makes the level much easier to solve (but isn't necessary)
Fun	25	Lemmings Lemmings Everywhere	RR99, mesh terrain, splat falls
Fun	26	Nightmare On Lem Street	Multiple workers necessary to solve the level
Fun	27	Let's Be Careful Out There	Accessible water and steel (not used to directly block the route), splat falls
Fun	28	If Only They Could Fly	Accessible water and steel (not used to directly block the route), splat falls (but only if not careful)
Fun	29	Worra Lorra Lemmings	High RR, lemmings in immediate danger, accessible steel, water and gaps (used to block the route)
Fun	30	Lock Up Your Lemmings	Rapidly alternating direction (only really a feature in early games which didn't allow assign-whilst-paused or direction select), accessible water

If you think I've missed anything important from that list, please holler!

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Also, a list of features from Oh No! More Lemmings compiled by Proxima. It's my thinking that the Tame levels could have gently introduced some of these features in the context of a more easy, open-ended setup:

ONML Features

Quote from: Proxima
ONML doesn't use all that many "tricks", since it is such an early pack, when developers were still discovering what can be done with the skills. Here's what I've come up with after a quick look through:

* Digging under a bridge so lemmings only enter the dig pit from one side (Crazy 2)
* Builders purely as delay (Crazy 3)
* Isolating a worker by digging through his bridge (Crazy 5)
* Removing a thin vertical pillar by digging instead of bashing (Crazy 14, Havoc 14)
* Getting the crowd down with two diggers, cancelling one with a builder to make a step (Crazy 15, backroute to Crazy 2)
* Separating lemmings by assigning one floater late and others early (Wild 8)
* Obvious solution fails because a climber can't be unassigned (Wild 16)
* Destroying one-way wall with bombers, or with a single bomber in the middle (Wicked 1)
* Turning a lemming in a basher tunnel before it's completed (Havoc 5)
* Manipulating the release rate to bypass traps (Havoc 10)

In addition, there are some tricks that aren't required, but are associated with specific ONML levels because of challenges. (Some of these are glitches, but I won't list these as we are just thinking about these as levels for NeoLemmix right now.)

* Creating a containment pit with two opposite-facing diggers who bash towards each other (Crazy 16)
* Bashing a thin pillar from a step back, so the basher's first stroke doesn't go all the way through, allowing another lemming to turn (Wild 13)
* Using a blocker to turn a digger (Wild 15)
* Trapping the crowd with two close blockers, and using a single bomber to release both (Wicked 12)

Brillsies!

Since the above demo meets with namida's approval, I'll continue with the others in similar fashion.

Please do comment if you have any ideas or anything to say about it either way, though. Feedback is very welcome, since these are the default water objects that we'll all be using.

Wow. An underwhelming response if ever there was one, but OK...

Quote from: Proxima on January 06, 2021, 05:32:11 PM
this accommodates levels where the entrance is to the right of the exit

The version of the challenge I'm suggesting is different then, and more levels are likely to be impossible. Since the challenge is being done in NL, though, which allows entrances facing either way, it's feasible to flip the entrances for those levels if we allow that as a rule.

Quote from: Proxima on January 06, 2021, 05:32:11 PM
A much more restrictive version of a pass/fail challenge that already had a lot of impossible levels, since it requires the exit to be above the entrance, which is actually quite rare. I can't see this getting off the ground.

It's likely that only a handful of levels are possible, but I think it will be fun to find out which.

Quote from: Proxima on January 06, 2021, 05:32:11 PM
NL doesn't record time taken if no lemmings are saved, but "fewest skills to kill all lemmings" seems viable. Not sure how interesting it will be, though; I predict a lot of 0s and 1s.

Coupled with what namida was saying about simplifying the challenges, fewest skills seems the best way to go with this one then, forget fastest time.

Quote from: Proxima on January 06, 2021, 05:32:11 PM
How many levels can be beaten with only one type of skill? for DOS Lemmings; for NL this doesn't have its own topic but is considered as part of Fewest different kinds of skills

Fair enough, although my version allows editing the level where necessary (as namida pointed out).

Quote from: Proxima on January 06, 2021, 05:32:11 PM
(re:Just Keep Swimming)
Too vague to be a workable challenge; this is more of a level design game.

Fair enough, I might suggest this one as a level design contest at some point in the future then.

Regarding the challenges that already have topics: NeoLemmix has evolved massively since a lot of these challenges originally began, and both Redux and the "NL official" orig/ohno packs have yet to be finalised. I think it would be fun and worthwhile to generate an up-to-date list of results which specifically work in NeoLemmix.

I also think it's worth looking at allowing use of NeoLemmix's various capabilities in terms of editing levels, changing up skillsets, exploring the new skills, etc, to create new challenges that are unique to NeoLemmix, like namida is doing with the "Save-'em-Up" contest.

Having said that, since I do tend to suggest quite experimental and/or niche challenges, I would be happy to compile them all into a single topic simply called "WillLem's Challenges" or something, if your concern is that the challenges board will be overrun with wierd and wonderful ideas that nobody shows any interest in but me and maybe a couple of other people. The Builders & Bashers Only challenge didn't really take off like I'd hoped, although one or two people have joined in and shared results, so there clearly is an audience.

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In response to namida's comments; I realise that I do need to define the rules for challenges more clearly and simplify them as much as possible rather than try to combine elements, so I'll aim for simplicity in future. Also, it's fine for a challenge to only have a small handful of levels that are possible within the defined parameters - I'm OK with levels being a "No" for a challenge; Builders & Bashers has lots of impossible levels, for example. The interesting part is discovering which levels are possible and which aren't, and documenting your findings for people to then improve on if they wish.

Since this topic is proposing ideas for challenges, I wasn't sure whether it should go here or on the challenges board itself. Please do move it if necessary, mods.

Here are some new ideas for challenges! I'm not sure if some of these already exist (or variants thereof), if so then please do link me up to the existing challenge and I won't bother creating new topics for them.

That said, since NL has received so many updates recently, it's probably worth giving the ones that already exist a fresh start anyway, or at least a nicer-looking results table

Onwards! - all lemmings must face in the direction that they spawn in for the entire level. If a lemming turns at any point during the solution, it's a fail.

Onwards and Upwards! - same as the Onwards challenge, but lemmings cannot fall or descend at any point during the level.

Suicidal Tendencies - basically the Karoshi gimmick but as a challenge. Since NeoLemmix allows you to create replays of failed levels, the idea here is to save 0 lemmings; fewest skills/fastest time is also a factor here. Doing nothing at all also counts as a fail: time must not run out (or count up infinitely). No nuke button goes without saying.

The Construction Crew - use only constructive skills to complete the level; fewest/fastest is a factor.

The Destruction Crew - ditto, but for destructive skills only.

The Golden Skill - use only 1 skill type to complete the level (editing allowed); fewest repeats is a factor.

Just Keep Swimming - which levels can be solved making non-trivial/non-arbitrary use of the Swimmer skill? (editing allowed; any other skills can be used in combination with the Swimmer to make a workable solution).

Floaters vs. Gliders - I'm not sure exactly what this challenge would entail, I only have the title at this point! I'm thinking something to do with seeing which levels work best with Floaters, and vice versa...

Forgot to change the trigger height

This has been done now; consider this a fully operational demo

N.B. again, I'll correct the water colour once everyone's happy with what's going on in the graphic - the darker shade is to make this more clear for demo purposes.

Count me in

Quote from: namida on January 05, 2021, 10:09:14 AM
it isn't impossible.

Brillsies

Sounds good, count me in

Finally got around to doing Crazy 7 "And Now, The End Is Near..."

This was by far the most interesting level for this challenge from ONML; it seemed impossible at first due to the short time limit and 100% save requirement. Facing all lemmings towards the exit is the most difficult thing about this one, and it's definitely worth giving it a go before you check out the replay!

I've attached a copy of the level edited for B & B so you can try it out for yourself...

This one was talked about on Discord and it was suggested that I create a topic for it, so here goes!

Just wondering if it's possible to add the "button selected" graphic (currently a white rectangle) to gfx/panel and panel-hr to make it a customisable image. This way, all graphical elements of the panel can be edited.

It's in the title; it'd be great if all current editor hotkeys and actions could be user-defined.

Quote from: namida on January 04, 2021, 05:41:46 PM
You're overestimating how much the DEFAULT_HEIGHT parameter does.
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There's no reason why the same object, with the same width / height... would look different in the game vs in the editor

Actually, I think I'm underestimating it's capabilities. I was checking to make sure that it does specify height for both in-game levels and editor. Your answer has clarified that it does.

The reason I thought it might not is because the graphic itself is 20px tall. So, the DEFAULT_HEIGHT text is needed to override that and tell the editor (and the player) to display the graphic at 16px.

Simple case of misunderstanding each other's questions and responses there I think. No worries, all is understood now. Thanks for the explanation

Oh no! It's...

THE GIANT MARBLE EXIT!!!

Format: NeoLemmix

Title: THE GIANT MARBLE EXIT

Difficulty: Easy

Features: Marble style with special graphics (style download included), Classic 8 skills plus Walkers & Jumpers

I noticed this whilst doing some resizable graphic tests.

This doesn't happen with all nine-sliced objects, and I think it has something to do with the position of the slice. In the following example, the "splat/antisplat glow" objects have a RIGHT_20 and LEFT_6 slice for resizing purposes (ny less than that on each side results in an inconsistent graphic due to shading):



This only affects the graphic in the editor; it appears fine in-game:



I have attached the png and nxmo for the antisplat glow in case the fault is with either of these (the splat glow is identical but recoloured to red).