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Messages - WillLem

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2641
mine has been updated but it wont matter anyway cos you didnt use the thing i had to block anyway.  I really enjoyed watching someone play my level though I would say you way over complicated that :)

Does that mean my solution is intended/acceptable, then? :)

2642
NeoLemmix Levels / Re: Lemmings Redux
« on: May 29, 2020, 08:23:00 AM »
Blocking off the way up to the top by sealing the one-pixel corridors with a builder, rather than building a splatform.

As ccx said, I'm pretty sure that isn't a backroute because the level lets you lose 1; since 1 lemming walks up the corridor and to his death (unless you build said splatform to save him, of course) having sealed the corridor with a builder for the others, it seems likely this is intended.

It's also the solution that's suggested in the Prima Publishing Lemmings: The Official Companion which was created and licensed by Psygnosis, which I think at least makes the solution acceptable if not intended by the level's designer.

It's also surprising how much building you need to make the splatform safe, you pretty much almost have to start building as soon as the lemming finishes falling down the cliff, or your splatform apparently won't be quite high enough to stop the splatting.

You can also build from the cliff itself to prevent this being an issue, as long as the 1-pixel corridor has been sealed.

if people actually want to include that level in Redux and yet you're really bothered by the seal-the-corridor route, you could consider changing save requirement to 100% so that the splatform must be done.

+1 for this: I agree that this would be an ideal way to present the level in Redux.

2643
NeoLemmix Levels / Re: zx spectrum and nes neolemmix extra levels
« on: May 29, 2020, 08:13:18 AM »
Nice one Eric! :thumbsup:

2644
Finally got around to filming the Rule 2 LP.

Please note that I am playing an early version of this pack, so some of these levels may have already had updates. I apologise if I'm playing an earlier version of your level, but you may still find the video informative and/or entertaining anyway (hopefully)! :lemcat:

2645
NeoLemmix Levels / Re: Lemmings Redux
« on: May 28, 2020, 09:52:26 PM »
- Take A Running Jump; I do like this level but backroutes are an issue. It would need significant changes to eliminate a certain well-known backroute.

Out of interest, which backroute?

2646
This is a great idea kaywhyn, I love lists and record-keeping as well.

If you're looking for a more presentable format, maybe a table would suit? Tables take a little bit of figuring out format-wise, but they do look great.

Here's an example table, feel free to copy and paste if you like the idea (for anyone: press "Quote" at the top right of this post and then copy the html if you want to use this):

Header AHeader BHeader CHeader D
Value A1Value B1Value C1Value D1
Value A2Value B2Value C2Value D2
Value A3Value B3Value C3Value D3

2647
Lix Main / Re: Progress to next level without getting back to menu
« on: May 27, 2020, 06:09:18 PM »
Lix doesn't cut your pineapple into slices.

I know, right...? What are we going to do when we want PiƱa Coladas mid-game? :crylaugh:

I'm happy with redesigning end-of-level. I still doubt that an unlocking system will pull enough weight to warrant the effort.

This is good news. And I'd probably agree about the unlocking system to be honest.

2648
Lix Main / Re: Spawn interval fixed per level, 2020
« on: May 27, 2020, 06:04:42 PM »
Unless you're trying to get everyone through a fast triggered trap, that's probably good enough... If you really need perfect clustering, how about... set the RR in such a way that it happens automatically?

RR isn't just about clustering Lemmings. Watch this video for an example of where variable release rate made the solution possible simply by virtue of being able to set how fast the lems were coming out at different times. I've skipped the video to the explanation, but if you want to see it in action just watch from the start.

Anyways, I'm resolved to accepting this difference in Lix and seeing how/if it makes the game any different. :lemcat:

2649
Closed / Re: [DISC] The future of official game conversions
« on: May 27, 2020, 01:04:56 PM »
Why use a version with some edits? Because that feels right to me. The terrain under the moss was intended to be indestructible.

Bombers were intended to be timed.

And I know, I know, untimed bombers don't affect the solution. My issue here is more with the fact that you're using designers' intentions as a reason to back this up this decision, but happily ignoring designers' intentions elsewhere. It just doesn't fly.

You can simply just say "the entire steel area needs to be indestructible because we've decided steel areas should be made up of entirely indestructible elements", and that's reason enough.

I'm almost of the mind that maybe we can create an "extra" rank or similar in the "conversion packs", for the levels that end up having reasonable small edits, the extra rank containing all the random alternate version that don't have such edits and therefore look slightly closer to the original, but may play a bit too differently from the original due to things like moss on steel.  The title can be modified to prefix with "Extra" or whatever so there's no confusion with the other version left under the original ranks under the original title.  The players will understand the oddball nature of this rank and can do as they see fit

This is a good idea! I'm very much in favour of keeping the conversions to just the one pack, so I'd be willing to make this compromise if others agree. If not, I have decided to go ahead and do my own conversions anyway, as the bulk of the work for this has already been done. In terms of what happens regarding these packs for challenges etc, well - que sera, sera.

I agree that the official game conversions should be maintained, but I question why we are now considering redoing them. There are already official game conversions - why not just maintain those?

Because they have been edited to not include decorative terrain. The idea with the restoration project is to present the levels exactly as they are when extracted as LVLs from the Amiga version, and then convert them to NXLV with a minimum of tidying up - mainly removing the empty space.

Yes, there are differences in the NeoLemmix versions as a result of the engine changes NeoLemmix makes. But if those are an issue, you can still play vanilla Lemmix.

To be honest, I enjoy playing the levels in NeoLemmix with it's various differences & conveniences - it makes a nice change from playing Lemmings on the emulator and makes finding new solutions easier and much quicker.

This project isn't about trying to replicate the original game, it's simply a full graphical restoration of the levels. The fact that NeoLemmix interprets them differently is part of the fun of porting them! :lemcat:

2650
Closed / Re: [SUG][PLAYER] "DPI aware" option
« on: May 27, 2020, 12:59:06 PM »
+1 for this :thumbsup:

2651
NeoLemmix Levels / Re: Lemmings Redux
« on: May 27, 2020, 01:34:11 AM »
I'd suggest (if possible) inclusion of the following levels. Even if not in their original versions, these can be made into very interesting levels with a minimum of tweaking:

The Ascending Pillar Scenario
Mary Poppins' Land
Take A Running Jump
Steel Works

Oh No! It's The 4TH DIMENSION!

And, you're welcome to use the recoloured exit and entrance graphics for the "special" levels.

2652
Closed / Re: [DISC] The future of official game conversions
« on: May 26, 2020, 09:49:16 PM »
Traps have secondary animations.

I'm considering making custom unanimated versions as part of the project - mainly for those that are meant to be hidden. Having the visible traps animated is, IMHO, definitely an improvement.

If you feel that "edited to suit the engine" destroys their authentic status, then that's a reason not to have the conversion: Because it can never be authentic.

I agree, and your line of reasoning has led me to question my motivations for doing this... I think it is purely so that as much of the "look" of the original game is preserved as possible. If I have to be completely honest, it's a mixture of preference, nostalgia, and almost a sense of protectiveness over the game I grew up with. That last one might seem a bit wierd, but I'd be lying if I denied the presence of that particular motivation. I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

I also fully acknowledge that authenticity is relative: I was only calling Proxima out on it because he stated that as the reason for wanting moss to be removed from steel. However, doing so compromises the visual authenticity. So, I guess it comes down to priorities - in this case, Proxima seems to be prioritising the authenticity of the level's intended solution, whereas I'm prioritising the authenticity of the visual design.

which is more authentic -- preserving the level data or preserving the underlying gameplay?

It's an interesting question, and not one I can answer easily to be honest. I'd say that, since the underlying gameplay is always compromised by virtue of it being played on NeoLemmix, it makes more sense to go with preserving the level data, and embracing the resulting differences in gameplay.

From the point of view of challenges, Redux and the original levels are separate packs, and neither is "official" (which has no meaning in this context). I am interested in maintaining a version of the original levels, both because I am interested in results from levels that aren't included in Redux, and for the sake of the "original levels with new skills" challenge.

This seems like a bit of a cake-and-penny situation. If you want a version of the original levels to use for challenges, I'd say either go with one which has been carefully edited to be suitable for use in NeoLemmix (i.e. Redux), OR a version which has as few edits to the original layout/data as possible. Why use a sort of "halfway" version? It just seems to add further absurdity to the situation, and potentially renders the results meaningless.

That said, I am happy for the "restored" version not to be accepted as official for challenges - that's not why I'm making it. And besides, people can make challenges for whatever packs they want anyway. I guess I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind your decision to create a separate pack for challenges, particularly if it means having yet another version of the original levels! :forehead:

2653
In Development / Re: A second gimmick pack?
« on: May 26, 2020, 09:19:43 PM »
This, along with Frenzy, objectively has the least potential when looked at from an NL point of view. You cannot make any puzzle using these that cannot be made without them; all they do is make your puzzle more difficult to execute.

I agree: I probably wouldn't make levels that were particularly puzzle-driven for the Superlemming gimmick, it would essentially become more a reaction/timing-based challenge. That said, it may be fun to include puzzle elements in the later levels to increase the difficulty in that regard, rather than making ridiculously hard execution stuff.

It also strikes me as very ironic that you claim this one, which does not actually change anything other than how fast the game runs, as having "great potential" when you've dismissed several that really do have a lot of potential.

Perhaps there's a misunderstanding here: I meant potential as a gimmick rather than potential for making what you might consider "good levels". Since Superlemming affects the game's speed, it has the potential to create a completely different Lemmings-playing experience. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is subject to opinion, of course.

And I'll also stress again that in general, new content should not be made for old versions in the first place.

To be honest, I agree with this to some extent. And, my enthusiasm for this project probably isn't quite as high as you might think. Like Mantha, I think it would be better if it were possible to make gimmick levels for new formats. But since it isn't, making a 1.43 project is a very distant second best.

At this point, version 1.43 is so vastly different from New Formats in so many ways that I almost consider it a different engine rather than an old version of NeoLemmix

I also do agree with this, but I can understand why Namida would rather people not focus their creative energies on a version of NL that he's happy to see the back of. I have to say, it does kind of affect my own enthusiasm for the project as well - 1.43 is a very clunky and ugly version of NeoLemmix that offers very little in the way of visual customisation.

This impression is amplified to me by your apparent enthusiasm about the Clock gimmick... I think by now you've noticed that the word "random" triggers something close to an instant allergic reaction in most NeoLemmix players... :P

Fair enough! :crylaugh:

I really do like the idea of coming back to a level at a different time of day and it's completely different! That seems cool! Mind you, you could achieve the same thing in new formats by sending a level to someone and asking them to make a change to the terrain. :P

maybe @WillLem it would be a good idea for you to start designing a small gimmick pack by yourself?

I might do... I find the 1.43 Editor very frustrating after getting used to the new one, but it might be worth it to explore some of the ideas I have for gimmick levels. Maybe, given the direction the conversation seems to be going in, it would be best for me to concentrate my energies on projects for new formats, and - playing people's packs!

On that note, let's put this idea on the shelf where it clearly belongs. ;P

2654
Closed / Re: [DISC] The future of official game conversions
« on: May 26, 2020, 08:47:00 PM »
As I've said before, the purpose of the Challenges board is twofold -- to have fun challenging each other and solving each other's challenges; and also to keep records of the best possible results achievable on various challenges. For that purpose, the levels need to be authentic.

This is absurd: on what basis are the levels "authentic" if they're being edited to suit the engine?

Don't get me wrong: I'm all for the idea of having a single pack from which to derive challenge results, and treat as "official", but since it's been decided that Redux is the official NeoLemmix pack, and since it's already been edited to NL specifications, then I'd suggest looking to that pack for use as the official NeoLemmix Challenges pack.

Furthermore, it almost doesn't make sense to both treat Redux as official, claim that it's the perfect pack to enjoy the original game on the NeoLemmix platform, and then use an entirely different pack for official Challenges - it sends out very mixed and confusing messages.

Anyway, I'm doing as has been suggested and I've created a new post for the restoration project, so hopefully this can serve as an unedited version available as a pack to simply play, or make levels from, as suggested. If people want to use it for Challenges, I won't discourage that, but nor will I try to get people to see that pack as any sort of "official Challenge pack". I agree that it's probably not appropriate to do so since the gameplay of the levels is so extensively affected by the NeoLemmix engine, and I'd again suggest that Redux is best for that particular purpose in a NeoLemmix context.

2655
Tech & Research / Re: Extracting levels from the Amiga version
« on: May 26, 2020, 08:18:13 PM »
I fixed the links in my previous posts.

I also ripped the "demo" and "bookclub" levels, but I can't recall if there were any differences:
https://www.camanis.net/lemmings/files/rips/levels/

Thanks for this, Mindless. I'm sure these will come in very handy for the proposed conversion project. Please do get involved if you're interested.

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