Level images of the Cheapo Copycat Lemmings extracted which you might find use for while remaking the levels for NL for the project

Great, looking forward to seeing what you make of this excellent level pack and porting it over from Cheapo to modern NL! And thank you for linking to my Cheapo Copycat Lemmings videos! Yes, feel free to reference them if necessary while remaking the levels in L1 styles

Quote from: Proxima on April 04, 2026, 12:42:28 PMLem Dunk is possible to save all but one. It would almost certainly be possible to save 100% if the trapdoor order were 1 - 3 - 2, haven't verified this yet.

However, this depends on the RR being 25 in NeoLemmix, which is slower than the slowest possible RR in other engines, so that's something we would have to change anyway.

Ah, didn't notice the 25RR for the level in the v4.0 RotL pack.

Quote from: Proxima on April 04, 2026, 12:42:28 PMWillLem voted for keeping the Mazu / Clam / IS levels (and Betcha can't save is by IS) so I'm pretty sure he does want it considered for v5 

Quote from: WillLem on April 04, 2026, 01:44:58 PMThe lists I posted are just there to document my favourites, really. Of course I'd like to see them included, but I'm equally happy to leave level selection entirely up to Proxima; I'll ultimately back whatever he decides upon, even if it means some of my picks don't make the cut.

You were saying?

QuoteIt's a very tricky question, exactly how far it's okay to change other people's levels. As mobius listed in his post above, in v4 he changed a few levels to 10-of-all that weren't originally, and on the one hand, that is changing them from the author's intent, but on the other hand, the pack benefits from having some easy levels to start with. So I'd love to hear more people's opinions on what to do with those levels, and with the start of the pack in general.

This is a tricky one indeed. On the one hand, I definitely think the pack can do with having these easy X-of-everything levels at the start, but on the other hand, it does feel a bit strange to me with them being modified levels of the authors from their original intent. If the decision is fine for the pack to have repeats, then sure, keep the X-of-everything version of the harder repeat, I guess. If we don't want repeats, then I guess put the skill tutorial levels instead. It really can go either way quite honestly, and I don't have a strong preference for either one, though I think I'm leaning more towards the X-of-everything route, and I'm not saying that because I myself won't be making skill tutorial levels for my upcoming Lemmings Memories pack

QuoteI am completely against changing levels just to make 100% possible. That you can't save 100% on every level has always been part of the game. "Betcha can't save" is designed so that saving even one is difficult, and that shouldn't be messed with.

Completely agree here with both points, even the first one despite how I generally go for save all's as much as possible It's not L2 anyway, where it's been proven that it's possible to save all on all 120 levels of the game and even then it's still possible to get gold if you lose some depending on the level/tribe. I digress though.

My own level list and thoughts on the picks/preferences of those who posted still to come. Maybe at the end of the week or so. 

Quote from: mobius on April 04, 2026, 01:53:01 AMLem dunk -- I'm *pretty* sure saving 100% is possible, might be pretty tough though, its been a long time since I've played this level.

Definitely impossible to 100% given the skillset and the level design. The middle hatch is second to spawn, after the left entrance, so even if you build as late as possible with the first Lemming, you won't be able to catch the first Lemming that spawns from the middle hatch before he lands in the water. So, you're guaranteed at least one loss on the level no matter what.

QuoteBetcha can't save just one! - as is; saving 100%, I wanna say somebody did it at some point but with a lot of trickery, maybe even glitchery. Saving 3 is at least doable considering there is the level (not included here) "Betcha can't lose just one!" which is essentially a repeat with the same skills.

The v2.0 pack has a talisman for saving 3 for "Betcha can't save just one!" This level is currently not in the v4.0 pack, so it sounds like WillLem wants it considered for inclusion for v5 Unless he's simply stating the level as one of his favorites on his list.

Quote from: WillLem on April 04, 2026, 12:19:52 AMThe only thing I'd suggest is that perhaps rather than a fixed number limit, it may be best to set a deadline after which "no more fixes" is put in place (similar to namida's approach with NL). That might be more appropriate for this particular project, and means that you can revise levels as many times as you see fit up until that date.

Not a bad idea actually. This will ultimately depend on what levels made the cut and how easy they are to backroute fix.

QuoteAgreed, with the exception of Proxima drafting the first pack. It's a good way to get the ball rolling, and is unlikely to be impacted too much by the votes anyway.

Honestly, I would had waited for the poll to close before doing even the task of selecting levels, but if some people want to do so (and already have, from what it sounds like from at least 2 or 3 people), then sure, I guess Just don't want it to be a case of work gets done only for it to be all for naught because there were more "no's" than "yeses" when the poll closes Again, I highly doubt the yeses will get overturned, but you never know. Though of course we could always override the poll decision and still go ahead with the project even in the case of the no's having more votes. Then in this case, when the level selection gets done wouldn't matter anymore, whether before or after the poll closes

It doesn't really matter, as I'll be the one putting the pack together for this awesome community anyway based on what we decide as a group on what levels should and shouldn't make the cut. It's good practice for me anyway, as I too have a level pack of my own that's been a WIP for some time now Link with more info in my signature      

QuoteWhatever kaywhyn decides as regards to backroute-fix limits, it seems to be clear to all of us that there should be a limit, and that limit shouldn't be surpassed, at least not by any of us.

One of the main purposes of this project is to have a set-and-forget couple of packs which don't need endless maintenance, and then a new pack to which we can add levels going forward.

If any issues with the levels do arise after the finished product is posted, I may still continue to do long-term maintenance on the pack and release updates as appropriate and if I see it necessary, even if no one else is interested in working on it further. That's fine with me if so I will very likely post and ask if what I spot is necessary to fix before doing so    

Quote from: Proxima on April 02, 2026, 04:36:56 PMv2 has 210 levels (7 x 30), not 270 as I said in my earlier post. I've fixed the post now with all the calculations that follow from this. The total number of available levels (v2 and v4 combined) is still 341.

Heh, didn't even notice your inaccuracy on the level count for the V2 pack Thank you for your complete honesty

Quote from: Proxima on April 03, 2026, 04:32:30 PMThe version of "The Hotel in Hell" in RotL v4 is a very old one with no backroute fixes, since the fixing work was done almost entirely in the Lix version.

I'm wrong; I was misled by kaywhyn's recent video of the SuperLemmini version, which has the old level for some reason. NL v4 does have the updated version, which is the same as the one I've attached here.

The version you see in the video is based on the level in RotL v2.0 for Very Old Formats NL. Hence the 2.0 in the video title Currently, there's no easy and fast way to convert from New Formats NL to SuperLemmini, with the only way presently is to manually recreate the level in the editor, which of course we want to avoid doing! Not to mention that isn't my current focus, especially as that was working off of someone else's SuperLemmini conversion of a pack. However, it's apparently possible to backport from New Formats to RetroLemmini, but I haven't tried that yet, so I don't know if it works.

Anyway, I'll likely post my level list of which ones should and shouldn't make the cut for v5 of RotL, as well as my thoughts on yours and mobius' level lists, later on when I'm able to

March/April 2026 update to the pack has been posted and can be downloaded here:

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=7351.msg108439#msg108439

Description of the pack update are included in the Lemmini Level Packs Archive topic in the link above

Pacguy765's Challenge Pack - originally by Pacguy765, converted by ericderkovits

March/April 2026 Update

Posting a small update both for the original Lemmini pack and eric's SuperLemmini conversion of Pacguy's pack. Other than restoring the original Lemmini pack download, the only changes here are to once again fix the music by removing the ones in the levelpack.ini files that aren't used despite being listed. As a result, the number of music tracks has been reduced from 33 to just the 25 that are used! Also, it's not necessary, since you should get them when you go through the Lemmini and SuperLemmini extraction process if you're doing the first-time setup for them, but the Amiga Lemmings .mod music tracks used for the pack have been added to the downloads. Yes it's a case of going from 9 music tracks to 25, but you still end up with the 25 intended tracks for the pack either way

For levels, the only level fix in this update is for Pack 3, level 3, where the invisible trap over the visible exit is now fixed so that it kills the Lemmings. It was a pixel too high before and hence the Lemmings are able to get by without getting killed. So, just another layer to the level title's meaning of "things are not as they seem!" The visible exit remains unchanged, where like in the original Lemmini version it still doesn't work here, which is how the pack author had it.

As usual, I have the pack downloads labeled and set up so that you just need to extract the files in the Lemmini zip to your Lemmini directory and the files in the SuperLemmini zip to your SuperLemmini directory. Everything will fall into place.

Quote from: WillLem on April 01, 2026, 10:42:34 PMAh, perhaps there's a misunderstanding here; the proposal is indeed that we update the V4.0 New Formats NL version of ROTL. Did you think we meant something else? We should clarify this before moving any further ahead with anything. See the this post for exactly what's being proposed.

Indeed, the confusion is all mine: I got it the other way around! For some very strange reason, I kept thinking the two 120-level packs was based on the v2.0 RotL pack and then Lemmings Assemble is based on v4.0 if you think it's still best to collaborate our efforts together. My mistake. Not only that, that one's only 210 levels (not counting the secret levels, and even counting them it comes a bit short of 240 anyway ) and hence it wouldn't be the even 120 split for the two mini-packs. That's what happens when I spent so much on getting an update posted for eric's SuperLemmini RotL conversions working tirelessly over the last several days that I was just flustered with how many issues in them bothered me that warranted an update IMO and hence I get mixed up about things

Yes, splitting the current v4.0 RotL pack into two packs of 120 levels each and then as a result Lemmings Assemble is its own thing independent of any of the RotL packs (save for any levels that get used from the Outtakes and overflow/extra pool) available makes complete sense to me now. People who want to contribute to Lemmings Assemble by making levels for it now makes sense Before with my mix-up, I was thinking, what's the purpose of people making levels for it then if you're basing it on v4.0 if you decide that's how it should be after doing the two packs of 120 levels each first, them being based (incorrectly, as I now see my mix-up and mistake) on v2.0?

In any case, now that my update for the SuperLemmini conversions are posted, unless there are issues that I missed that need fixing, that's that for them and they won't be brought up again as they're at least archived here on the Forums Now I can completely turn my focus on doing a long overdue update for the v4.0 RotL (2022 version) pack which is where my contributions should be in regards to this project!  

Quote from: WillLem on April 01, 2026, 10:42:34 PMAgreed, but things do need to move or nothing will get done. I'm happy for the general pace to be slower than it would be if I was working on it alone, but I'll also probably push for regular, tangible progress wherever possible. It's probably a good idea to set small goals that we can tick off once they're achieved, and try not to go back over stuff we've already decided on.

Yes, I got that. What I'm getting at here is that it's all right if nothing gets done with this, as it's not the end of the world or anything if so. However, as I already mentioned a few times before, I agree about not leaving the 2022 RotL pack the way it currently is. I've been meaning to update the pack, I just haven't gotten around to doing much work towards that yet or thought too much of it with everything else I have going on with my life outside of Lemmings or other priorities I have

Quote from: WillLem on April 02, 2026, 02:48:15 AMI suggest that we fix any backroutes that we know of this time around, and then sign the pack off as final. That is, IMO we shouldn't go back and fix it later, even if something else is found. The older levels will then exist as snapshots, and we can move forward with the newer ones.

Well, I don't think it'll be possible to fix all backroutes with only one update, even if I'm quite careful about nearly everything I do. Here, I would suggest giving it maybe 3 versions, similar to how you detailed me your approach to backroute fixing your levels, especially for those of yours you really like. I believe it went something like you give yourself 3 attempts, but if it's still backroutable after those 3 editions, you just don't bother fixing it up anymore. I think that's a good approach, even if I myself haven't made much use of it or given myself any kind of hard limit number on backroute fixes yet! Guess I'm one of those who prefers to release as many updates as is necessary until my level is finally fully backroute-proof. However, as I don't have any levels in the 2022 RotL version and that I'm fixing up other people's levels, I'll very likely relax this point when backroute fixing them, especially as a lot of them we don't know what's the intended solution anyway.

---

Anyway, I appreciate you wanting me to get involved and thinking that I'll (along with everyone else who will be doing some part in it) be valuable in contributing to the project! When we do eventually get to Lemmings Assemble much later down the road, again I'll consider contributing some levels of mine and/or making levels for it, though not a guarantee for the latter. Also, to be clear, I definitely am getting involved, as I mentioned that I been meaning to update the 2022 RotL pack for quite some time now. This would definitely be a good opportunity for me to do so while things are fresh again. Admittedly, it's thanks to @hrb264 that I've been revisiting RotL again for the past several weeks, when she had been posting her progress on solving the levels of the pack and that she got held up on JAILBREAK and I decided to take a look to see if it's solvable in SuperLemmini in order to help her out with the level roadblock!

One thing, and that is I would suggest letting the poll run its course first before we commit to our duties. I highly doubt it'll reverse in the next several days to overturn the green light to go ahead with it, but let's see first. I haven't voted yet, but I'm definitely one of the "yeses" for sure!

Because there was a bit of confusion with some people over what was being proposed for the project, I had a brilliant idea last night, and that is I suggest making separate in-development topics for each of the 3 packs you had in mind. I believe Proxima had the idea of making a separate topic from this one for level selection, and I agree. It should be possible to split them here, and if so, let me know how you want them to be split when I'm making the topics Otherwise, we can simply make new topics for them without splitting any posts here, but I do think we'll be able to split the posts. This topic has gotten plenty of posts already and hence things could very quickly get out of hand again, so I think we should split them when we get the chance!  

Right, a few days ago WillLem asked for my input on if things sound good on what he's proposed in regards to the general development of this pack being something that will come of it. Here's what I honestly think:

I think what's been put forth so far are excellent suggestions and valid points from which to base development decisions on for when work does get underway, especially on a long overdue update for the v4.0 of the RotL pack. Before any work goes towards Lemmings Assemble, however, I think it's best if WillLem first focuses on the two mini-packs of 120 levels each first. After those are done and maybe deciding on some more things on the third pack, then see if you still feel like it's best to collaborate our efforts on updating the V4.0 New Formats Nl version of RotL for Lemmings Assemble to closely resemble and follow. I certainly don't mind and would agree here that we should, but I believe you also mentioned that people who want to contribute to the Lemmings Assemble pack are free to create levels for it. If so, it does sound like it'll be its own project independent of the New Formats NL version of RotL. Again, see if you still feel like it's best to collaborate our efforts between v4.0 RotL and Lemmings Assemble after you do and finish the first two packs of 120 levels each first Level creation for Lemmings Assemble might not even be necessary, given the amount of unique levels Proxima was able to find after comparing the levels in the v2.0 and v4.0 of the RotL packs and compiling the results in an Excel spreadsheet being way more than enough!

As has been pointed out, RotL is a very huge undertaking for anyone alone, especially given the current sizes of all of them being over 200 levels each. A lot of collaboration is needed among several people so that RotL is as good as it can be. Of course, it won't always be possible to come to a consensus on everything, but we do what we can!

Ultimately, just remember that there's no rush or even any real urgency to do this, especially as the v4.0 RotL pack is at least completely playable, though possibly way too huge on the number of levels. I agree with Proxima that doing nothing with it anymore isn't the way to go, as it's been in need of a long overdue update for a while now. Even though the level ordering is far better than in earlier versions of the pack on different formats of NL and even the Lemmini version, the very first RotL pack there is available, it's still far from perfect on that. Not only that, backroutes need to be fixed, deciding what levels to cut, if any, and what their replacement should be, etc.

To be clear, I think this project that WillLem proposed is a great idea. I just think it's best to focus on a few things at a time so as not to overwhelm oneself, though this is likely just me talking, as I personally like taking my time and baby steps with anything I do    

Download for the March/April 2026 update for the SuperLemmini conversions of RotL can be found here:

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=7351.msg108415#msg108415

Brief description included in the OP in this topic. See readme file for Rearranged pack for complete details as the changelog is huge.

Revenge Of The Lemmings - originally compiled by mobius, converted by ericderkovits

A Forum collaboration pack.

March/April 2026 Update

Posting an update to both of eric's SuperLemmini conversions of Revenge of the Lemmings that adds some missing levels from v2.0 to Rearranged and removes the unnecessary extra levels/files from the download, in particular the levels from the Extra ranks and duplicate music tracks, in order to reduce the pack size for both packs. Changelog is especially huge for the Rearranged pack, so see the readme file I included for that

Also link for the music pack for the Rearranged pack, as it's too large to include in the attachment:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/x6lfq0jhbj2z9aakxrfgy/Revenge-of-the-Lemmings-Rearranged-music.rar?rlkey=nm1bq8c8yhxm45qlcs0ibs709&st=8pwp07rs&dl=1

All of the music for the SuperLemmini conversion of the Lemmini RotL (the non-rearranged one) are included in the attachment

Rearranged replays have been updated to include only my replays for levels that I added, used the condensed NL level map size, the former secret levels of the Extra 1 rank that moved to the end of the main ranks, and any levels that changed to match the RotL v2.0 NL version of the level stats-wise.

The download is set up so that you just need to extract to your SuperLemmini directory. Everything will fall into place.

Updated the link in the OP to redirect to this post. Will likely put the levels of the Extra ranks into the RotL v4.0 Outtakes for NL since they're levels that can be found in the other conversion pack, i.e, the extra levels of RotL can be found in the Rearranged conversion pack and vice versa.

Quote from: WillLem on March 26, 2026, 09:46:18 PMAh OK, cool. Well, I've been thinking that maybe the RetroLemmini version of ROTL could be split into 3 packs. There are currently 270 levels across 10 ratings, which just seems excessive tbh. We could easily split this into 2 packs of 120 each (ROTL I and II, each with 4 ratings of 30 levels), and then have 30 levels left over to start Lemmings Assemble (which would essentially then be "ROTL III"). We'd then ave a ROTL trilogy, which seems a much better way to maintain these packs going forward.

Indeed, it really confuses me why there's an Extra rank in eric's SuperLemmini Revenge of the Lemmings. As this is simply a conversion of the Lemmini RotL pack, IMO the 6 main ranks are sufficient. I don't see the point of the Extra rank whatsoever and think that it can simply be removed. From a quick glance of the Extra rank, those seem to be levels from Revenge of the Lemmings v2.0, aka, the Very Old Formats NL version of the pack. I really don't see the point of mixing the Lemmini levels with the v1.43n-F NL RotL levels when the latter already exists as a separate RotL pack anyway There's about 76 levels in just that rank alone! Can definitely remove the fluff and bloat to reduce the pack file size, especially when combining it with the music pack.

Similarly, as eric's Revenge of the Lemmings Rearranged is a conversion of RotL v2.0, aka, the pack in this topic, the 19 levels that are in the first Extra rank of Revenge of the Lemmings Rearranged can simply go into the main ranks themselves. They are secret levels in the Very Old Formats NL version of the pack, but since SuperLemmini doesn't have them, I think they can just go into the main ranks. Yes, it will cause the ranks to have different amounts of levels instead of them all having 30 like it is currently, but I don't think that's a big deal, considering the v2.0 has differing amounts of levels in the ranks when including the secret levels in each of the ranks

The other two Extra ranks, once again, I don't see the point in them, as they're levels that are already in the Lemmini version of RotL. RotL v2.0 for Very Old Formats NL is a completely separate level pack from the RotL Lemmini version and hence I don't see the point of mixing in the Lemmini levels that aren't found in the former with it by putting them in both the second and third Extra ranks as eric has done. Sure, this time it's only about 40 or so extra levels, but if there's an opportunity to remove unnecessary files in them, that should be done.
 

QuoteIf your intention is to maintain the SuperLemmini version only, then of course you don't need to do anything regarding the proposed RetroLemmini version. But, it might be good to have your involvement with this as well.

Yea, I'll certainly be more than happy to help you and eric out with anything that needs doing for the RetroLemmini version of RotL. I'm generally called for for my level solving skills, so I can certainly help out on that front to ensure all levels can be solved, especially the higher ranked ones, but anything else I'll try and assist in any way possible, if and whenever I'm able to.

I'm going to make it clear that I'm not and won't be maintaining eric's SuperLemmini conversions of RotL. I'll leave that up to him if he wants to do so. I'm simply assisting by tidying up and removing all the excess fluff and bloat files that don't need to be there in the pack download in order to reduce the pack size. As previously mentioned, a lot of the music tracks are duplicates. After removing the duplicates, the number of .ogg tracks has been reduced from 48 to just 12! The rest are .mod files which don't contribute as much to the file size as the .ogg music tracks. Not only that, the number of music tracks has been greatly reduced from well over 100 to just about 66 or so!

In any case, I think once I post an update for the SuperLemmini RotL packs, they can pretty much be considered done. Unless there are problems that are spotted and in need of fixing, of course.

Quote from: Mobiethian on March 26, 2026, 09:50:15 PMI want to learn it is what I had in mind.

Keep in mind the pack is just an idea floating around for now and that it may or may not happen

Interesting idea. I'll consider contributing some levels, though I likely won't contribute much, especially as have my Lemmings Memories pack currently in-development

Quote from: WillLem on March 25, 2026, 02:07:34 PMI had an idea today whilst playing through Revenge of the Lemmings and just wanted to make a note of it here.

Speaking of RotL, I'm currently sorting out and tidying up eric's SuperLemmini conversion of the pack. In particular, there were a lot of duplicate music tracks and hence were removed in order to reduce the file size of the music pack. Also, as I was going through the levels to make sure I had the correct music playing on them to match with RotL v2.0 for Very Old Formats NL, I found some incorrect level stats. Will probably post an updated version soon in the Lemmini Level Packs Archive topic

Quote from: Mobiethian on March 26, 2026, 03:07:55 PMI would like to make some levels for this, too! Would be fun. I'm getting better at making more difficult levels. Count me in!

For RetroLemmini, not NL

I've attached an updated version of namida's .nxp (download link found on the previous page, 7) of the pack for v1.43 NL with the following changes:

- Corrected the Frenzy 9 - Fall Guy talisman to unlock the correct secret level. It was unlocking the wrong one.

- Moved the eraser piece on Pain 22 - Herculems down a pixel. The level was unsolvable otherwise with what seems to have been changed bomber mechanics. Interestingly enough, this level is fine in mobius' Flexible NeoLemmix Player version (in the OP) and hence doesn't need the eraser piece moved for that one.

Remember that you would need the 1.43n-F NL player to load this .nxp file. You can download this NL player here:

https://www.neolemmix.com/?page=download_list&program=16

Simply extract both the NL player and the .nxp file somewhere to your hard drive, double-click the NL player, and browse to the location where you extracted the .nxp file, and double click the .nxp file to load the pack.

The NL player v1.43n-F file is also attached here. I've also attached both the .nxp and the NL player v1.43n-F files in the OP for convenience and so that both versions of the pack and everything are in one place

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2203.msg52541#msg52541