Lemmings Boards > Contests

Proposal: Level Solving Competition

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Minim:
Hello everyone.

So basically what I'm proposing here is not a level design contest, but a level playing competition. So far for playing levels the competition always seems to be taking place in multiplayer, but what about single-player? Here are some rules as to how this contest is planned to work:

* The engines that can be used are NeoLemmix and Lix, although they can't be used together because of different mechanics. Both also have different recorded data however; for example NeoLemmix's time taken to Lix's Skill count.
* One level will be shown at the bottom of the opening post for users to download and play.
* The aim is simple: Just solve the level.
* The competitive part is to try and solve it within the fastest time in the case of NeoLemmix, or the fewest skills in the case of Lix. The total Lemmings saved factor could be prioritised depending on competitive viability. Would a maximum requirement reduce the number of viable solutions to the level?
* Both engines have an "auto-save level solutions" kind of button, so make sure you turn it on so you don't lose your replay!
* The process to submit results is similar to Family Feud. Upload your best replay to the host's personal messages box, not on the thread. Just to remind the guests that you need to be logged in to send PMs.
* The competition's playing phase will be open for let's say a week. After a week expires the user's Lemmings saved/fastest time/fewest skills etic. will be displayed on a leaderboard.
* The winner of the tournament gets to choose the next level for a competition. Any additional prizes such as the ones from the Level Design contest can also be suggested to be included here.

The poll above this post is a list of two engines. Cast a vote as for which one you think would be more viable to use for this competition. NeoLemmix is more popular but Lix allows more skills to be used in-game. If we want to use Lix then you'll need to download the latest version. The boards for other Lemmings Projects haven't been updated since November, so we'll leave SuperLemmini etc. out in the meantime.

So, I hope this new idea turns out to be a popular one. :) Here are some example levels off the top of my head which I think are not too hard but have enough variety in skillset to deserve competition. However as always, I'm open to any suggestions or questions.

NeoLemmix: Original Lemmings
* Fun 29: Worra lorra lemmings
* Tricky 10: There's a lot of them about
* Tricky 11: Lemmings in the attic

Lix: LemForum Pack
* Lovely 4: Diamond Dash
* Lovely 20: The Borderland
* Quirky 1: The Adventure Playground

IchoTolot:
I don't think the fastest time would be a good criterium. This would result in people fiddling around their solution to cut off single frames. I think this would kill all fun, as it's more about fiddling around with the found solution to make it as efficient as possible instead of finding it and actual level solving.
This would result in this being more like a speedrun competition instead of a solving one. I definitely have no interest in trying to speedrun, sry. ;P It's not my kind of fun.

The fewest skills would result in the competition being in need of a very specific kind of level. Most likely an x-of-everything level where searching for the route with the fewest skills is the key. The most efficient one being very hard to find.

I think the ruleset must be overthought as a result.

Also I think a bunch of new, unsolved, never before seen levels would be better. Otherwise it would be possible to look up speedrun/optimal solutions before the start.

Maybe even something similar to the live L2 races would be more fitting. ???

Simon:
You can count skills in NL manually.

Fewest skills will produce many equally-ranked entries, you'll want to pick massive maps with 15 or more assignments.

Lix can display physics updates during play: Options -> Graphics -> Count physics and FPS. I didn't expect broad interested in optimizing solutions for physics updates, therefore the post-play stats never display physics updates used. I'm open to discuss stats displayed. Don't let either game's shortcomings dictate the contest's design; if stuff is important, we can work around. :lix-grin:

TASing (minimizing the number of phusics updates) has niche appeal. I would be up for it. I also assume that some more will be interested, especially for a one-off event. But it will be fiddly.

I'm also interested in improving Lix's replay editing, e.g., move an assignment by one physics update sooner or later, while instantly seeing the result 200 physics updates later. I still lack insert assignment without cutting replay afterwards.

-- Simon

Proxima:

--- Quote from: Minim on December 10, 2018, 07:19:03 PM ---NeoLemmix is more popular but Lix allows more skills.
--- End quote ---

NeoLemmix has more skills than Lix (17 to 15).

We have existing challenge topics for fewest skills and least time on the original levels, and fewest skills is already heavily optimised. New results are always possible, but I don't think a selection of three levels per week is likely to turn up very much.

I would definitely be interested in a challenge topic for fewest skills on the Lix community set (and other stable packs such as Rubix's), but I'd want to see whether other people are interested before starting one. It has the disadvantage that to an extent, the levels are still in flux (especially as regards order), so a bit of extra maintenance work would be required, but I don't mind doing that.

You mention prizes such as the ones from the level design contests. Are you prepared to fund those?

Simon:
More ideas, some from Forestidia in voicechat.

People optimize a replay, then send this replay privately to the host as in Family Feud forum game. How would one even be able to cheat then? You can't copy other people's solutions before scoring.

The host can design a level in private, then release it when the round begins. This gives everybody an even start except for the host; the host knows their own map already. Still, the host should be allowed to enter their own contest for fun. Maybe preclude the host from winning.

If one prefers discussing ideas over working alone: Can several people enter as a team?

I'm willing to extend Lix to display more stats, ingame or postgame. Replay-editing features would be even better but I'm busy these weeks, can't guarantee the time to develop a large feature. Still, I'm happy to discuss anything.

-- Simon

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