Level pack: LemRunner (2021)

Started by 92Dexter11, April 09, 2021, 06:56:59 PM

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∫tan x dx

Hi Armani

I'm glad to see you've found the secret bonus levels! I can confirm there are only two of them. We considered cutting these levels from the pack for different reasons, but we ultimately decided to include them as a nice easter egg which would be revealed upon a user submitting fifty valid replays. :)

Nicely done! :D

Regarding solutions:
Spoiler

Riddle of the Ancients - I made this level without actually realising we already had ten levels for the jungle rank. :forehead: Dexter also pointed out that the intended solution (backroutes notwithstanding) was too difficult for a jungle rank level.
Speaking of backroutes, you've once again outplayed me :XD: I have a fix for this, though, and we should be uploading it in a few days along with updates to the other levels.

Guardian Angels - Dexter cut this level because he felt the solution was too unfocused and had too many potential backroutes. But interestingly enough, your solution is actually very close to what Dexter originally intended. We may add a time limit, however... :evil:


We plan to properly add these levels to the level lists in the next update, so that everybody can enjoy them without having to dig into nxmi files.

92Dexter11

Just letting you all know that version 2.0 has been released!
(The original link to the level pack has been modified to contain the new, updated levels.)

Special thanks to Armani for finding backroutes.

Changelog:
Spoiler

Jungle World:
Encore - Zombie now is a floater
Ziggurat - Widened the leftmost chasm and added metal to prevent various backroutes
What Goes Up - Added metal to the centre of the level in order to make the force fields integral to the solution. Also removed the plants from the middle to preemptively remove any backroute attempts.
Waste not, Want not - Removed a single piece of gold. Hopefully this will encourage people to not be so wasteful...
Entrapment - Added two new pieces of gold; this should force the intended solution.
Lemdiana Jones - Modified terrain slightly, and added an extra jumper to compensate.
Riddle of the Ancients - Replaced the glider with a floater. Minor terrain changes to prevent further backroutes. Added to the main level list.

Gear World:
Switching Gears - Removed some metal which allowed for a backroute; replaced with gear traps. Also added a metal floor to prevent digging and bashing.
Authorised Lemmings Only! - Reworked level to a moderate extent.
Measure Once, Build Twice - Shifted crates and platforms by a few pixels.
Smoke Stacks - Filled in some holes at the bottom of the level to prevent digging down to delay the lemmings.
Just another cog in the machine - Changed some shallow platforms to steeper ones.
Two by Four - Repositioned the leftmost splitter and its platform which was causing issues.

Mona World:
Catch My Drift - Reworked the central lemmings chamber; now they cannot be freed with platformers.
Sync or Swim - Added a gold above the chasm to force the use of a jumper.
Tightrope Citadel - Tweaked positions of gold coins very slightly.
Ad Astra Per Aspera - Destroyed the temple a little more.
A Caelo Usque Ad Centrum - Added debris to prevent backroutes.
Any Way the Wind Blows - Added two mines to prevent a backroute.
Ascending and Descending - Increased save requirement to 80/80, added an extra skill and gold coin at the bottom of the level. Also started some fires...
Guardian Angels - Added a time limit, and added to the main level list.

Wacky World:
Non Sequitur - Changed the terrain at the left side of the level.
Mr Magoo - Added a talisman to complete the level without using walkers.
Loony Bin - Slight terrain repositioning to prevent a backroute.
The Gibbering Cliffs - Embedded more random bits of metal into the cliffs.
Neurosis is no excuse for bad manners - Tweaked positions of gold and exits slightly.
When life gives you lemmings - The Golden Goose has laid another egg...

Industry World:
Bait and Switchboard - Terrain modification and added a trap to prevent various backroutes.
Livewire Lemmings - Filled in two pixels to force the use of an extra builder.
Lemming on High - Slight terrain repositioning to remove a backroute involving platformers.
Storage Facility 22-A - Swapped the basher for a bomber.
Retrograde - Added more metal and repositioned the terrain slightly to force the intended solution.
The Night Shift - Moderate rework: Neutral lemmings are now separated from the controllable lemmings, removed all jumpers, added more useless empty boxes.
The Specialist - Removed a gold ingot, tweaked the skill set slightly. Committed many more OSHA violations.
Dead Weight - Removed a platform. Added two extra platformers to compensate.

Tan and I have decided to wait another few days before releasing the solution pack, to give you all a chance to see the revamped levels.

kaywhyn

#17
Hello tan x/Dexter,

I've finally managed to solve Jungle World 10, as well as Jungle World 11, and hence solved the entire first rank. Here are my replays for Jungle World. Also as promised, here is the link to my LP of your guys' level pack ;) https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJuTl9UeUQB13QQBlZHAcKTn Enjoy! :P

General Remarks on the Pack So Far

Wow, these levels are quite tough, but I'm enjoying what I've seen a lot so far. I kind of expected that, especially since I've seen both the Chalkboard demo and Renaissance Lemmings. My favorite levels in the Jungle World rank were Jungle World 3 - Ziggurat and Jungle World 6 - Excavation :thumbsup: The latter in particular is difficult, but it has such a great solution :) The former isn't as difficult, but I really love how the solution comes together and what needs to be done in order to keep the crowd and pre-placed neutral safe.

For Jungle World 10, sorry to say it, but the fact that things kept failing by a pixel or I kept being a skill short made me not like the level as much as I should had. It normally takes a lot before I rage at a Lemmings level, and this happens to be one of the few that did manage to get me to rage. It's a really nice challenging level and all, but all the precision that's needed made me think otherwise. I ended up solving the original version before I solved the update version you see in the LP, as I wanted to figure out the first version as well since I couldn't solve it for a while. I saw that an extra jumper was given, as well as some kinks in the wall on the right, and I thought even with an extra jumper it's still not that easy for me. However, the solution involves something that I might had already been aware of, I just never fully realized it.

Spoiler

Stackers actually place the stack a pixel lower once a digger is digging nothing away. Thus, I had rejected going underneath the wall way too early and instead kept trying to get to the other side up higher, which of course resulted in me wishing I had one more digger. Not sure why it took me so long to realize this and to finally solve it, but I finally managed to do it :)

Some level feedback:

Spoiler

Jungle World 1 - Welcome to Jungle World Nice, somewhat challenging level to start off the pack

Jungle World 2 - Encore This one was a bit difficult, but it's really just the timing that's hard. The solution is simpler than it appears.

Jungle World 3 - I actually learned something new here, and that is I didn't know that neutrals can interact with buttons. Now that I think about it, I guess it makes sense, since they can interact with traps/exits, so therefore they aren't excluded from buttons. I really like the puzzle of figuring out how to get the neutral out from being stuck in an endless loop between the wall/one-way force field, as well as getting the button to the left of where the neutral starts. Figuring out the bottom level is tricky, but quite a nice one.

Jungle World 5 - The two towers Looks quite intimidating with the extremely wide gap, but it's actually not that hard. Cloners FTW :laugh: Though, I didn't like how in the end I kept failing by a pixel. I also have a glider leftover.

Jungle World 7 - Shibboleth This one was also difficult, but it's a really nice level. The bombers to free the neutrals are a bit precise, but I like how you need to release them so that they all walk to the center except for one which will go to push the buttons.

Jungle World 9 - Entrapment This one was also difficult for me. I'm sure this is a backroute, though. Certainly the hardest part seems to be to make sure no one bunches up due to the one-way force fields.

Jungle World 11 - Riddle of the Ancients I understand that this wasn't originally part of the initial pack release, as this was a secret level. Now it's the final level of the rank. Didn't take me as long as I thought it would. I don't think this is intended, though?

I will continue through the rest of the pack later on! :) Overall, great job so far and I'm enjoying the pack a lot. Very challenging levels that are satisfying to figure out and solve. I'm also aware that some levels have changed in the meantime, but luckily I was only on the Jungle World rank by the time the second version of the pack was released. For this, I might just simply tack on the resolved solutions of the Jungle World levels that changed at the very end of my LP. Meaning, the levels you see in the LP are from the 1st version. Generally, I don't go back and resolve updated levels if an update happens while my LP is in progress. Again, as I said before luckily the only levels I need to resolve are the Jungle World ones, as I was stuck horribly on Jungle World 10 by the time the second version of the pack dropped.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Armani

I've resolved updated levels of first three ranks.
I have a feeling that I've found quite a lot of intended solutions this time :D
I will probably look into remaining two ranks someday in this week.

Attached zip file also contains replays which are accepted last time.
You only need to check the following levels :
Jungle 3,4,8,9,10,11
Gear 4,5,7,8,9,10
Mona 2,3,5,6,8,9,10,11


comments for individual levels

Jungle3 Ziggurat - This feels intended now.:D I used every skill.
Jungle4 What goes up - Not sure on this level. Digger canceling to make a 6 pixels step seems a little bit hackish. Also my solution relys on tight timing.
Jungle8 Waste not, want not - This also feels good. I used all skills and the solution just looks nice.
Jungle9 Entrapment - Slight variation of my previous backroute. I can see what intended solution looks like... from the added golds, but I think the level need another fix for now.
Jungle10 Lemdiana Jones - Same here. I just tweak my previous backroute a little bit. I still have some leftover skills and didn't collect glider pick-up.
Jungle11 Riddle of the Ancients - Same here. almost same solution as before.
Gear4 Measure once, build twice - This must be intended. Very nice level :thumbsup:
Gear5 Switching gears - I think my solution is mostly intended. I freed both zombies and used them to flip the splitters. The only suspicious part is where I used a basher to hit the steel and turn around.
Gear7 Authorised Lemmings Only! - Okay. I love this level very much now. :thumbsup: Everything fall in to place perfectly!
Gear8 Smoke stacks - I have a spare jumper this time :devil: I suspect the position of the first digger is not exactly intended.
Gear9 Just another cog in the machine - Still chaotic a little bit but seems better than before.
Gear10 Two by four - I used every skill this time. Hope this is closer to intended ;)
Mona2 Catch my drift - I deliberately tried to solved this level without using blockers to bounce off the glider.(Sorry, but I love to backroute the levels. :evil:) And here's the result.
Mona3 Sync or swim - I bet this is intended now. Very clever usage of updraft :thumbsup:
Mona5 Tightrope Citadel - I used all the given skills. This seems intended now.
Mona6 Ad astra per aspera - It seems much better now but not perfect probably. I used last cloner merely to meet the save requirement.
Mona8 A caelo usque ad centrum - This also feels intended now.
Mona9 Any way the wind blows - I used first stoner right after the first lemming spawned. Then all the following lemmings spawn in opposite directions as a result. I'm not sure if this is intended as I've never seen this trick in custom levels other than one of mine. If this is not intended, you can easily block this backroute by moving hatch to the right slightly.
Mona10 Ascending and descending - This level is much more difficult than before as you said. I had to pre-plan the position of the stackers very carefully.
Mona11 Guardian Angels - I tried completely different approach this time and got a solution which spares a basher. :P
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Armani

I've resolved updated levels for remaining 2 ranks.
Attached zip file is full set of my replays for LemRunner V2.0

You only need to check the following levels :
Wacky 3,6,7,8,9
Industry 2,4,5,6,7,8,9,10


comments for individual levels

Wacky3 Non sequitur - I still think this is the easiest level of the rank. It's very clear where I should use each skill. But it's still not that easy because I had to time the stacker so the pioneer lemming has enough time to platform over the gap.
Wacky6 Loony bin - Certainly less hackish than before. I reckon this could be intended. Pretty neat level! :D
Wacky7 The Gibbering Cliffs - I think I got the main trick of the level : bombing one of the platform, digging another platform inside the splat pad area and let the crowd fall to anti splat pad area. I have a stoner and many cloners to spare though. I have no idea where all these cloners are needed.
Wacky8 Neurosis is no excuse for bad manners - Attached several solutions. I suspect none of them are intended.
Wacky9 When Life Gives You Lemmings - I still have some leftover skills on this level.
Industry2 Bait and switchboard - Almost same solution here. The only difference is that I used a blocker this time to prevent the crowd going to fire trap.
Industry4 Livewire Lemmings - I know this solution is acceptable. Last update broke my replay so I just slightly adjust the position of some skills.
Industry5 Lemming on high - Yes, I can roughly see what intended solution looks like now but I would rather backroute the level than solve it in intended way. :evil:
Industry6 Storage facility 22-A - I used mid-air stoner trick again! And It seems that sometimes a bomber is more powerful than a basher, so I spare a stoner this time. Let's see if this is acceptable or not..
Industry7 Retrograde - Attached several different solutions. Each solution contains the crowd at different locations. The first solution looks most promising imo.
Industry8 The night shift - This also feels good. But I think this level is too easy for its position.(if my solution is intended of course)
Industry9 The specialist - I used all the given skill this time. Hopefully this is closer to intended.
Industry10 Dead weight - I think I got the main theme of the level : You can't beat the neutral to the gold + you must collect walker pick-up before collecting the final gold. The only possibility in this case is that I should free the zombie and drop him exactly to the neutral to zombify him so he can't collect the final gold. But the problem is that the execution is way too precise. Even after I realize that I should drop the zombie to the neutral, I failed many times by few frames. Finally I got a solution that successfully drop zombie to the neutral but there're some hackish, heavily timing-based things. I think I could've spare some skills(e.g a stacker and a jumper at the top platform) if I timed it better but I'm too lazy to actually do so... The main idea is actually fantastic and creative but I think the execution is way too precise.(I'm sorry if dropping the zombie to the neutral is not what you intended or there is an easier way to do so...)

My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

92Dexter11

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 19, 2021, 09:48:44 PM
Hello tan x/Dexter,

I've finally managed to solve Jungle World 10, as well as Jungle World 11, and hence solved the entire first rank. Here are my replays for Jungle World. Also as promised, here is the link to my LP of your guys' level pack ;) https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJuTl9UeUQB13QQBlZHAcKTn Enjoy! :P

General Remarks on the Pack So Far

Wow, these levels are quite tough, but I'm enjoying what I've seen a lot so far. I kind of expected that, especially since I've seen both the Chalkboard demo and Renaissance Lemmings. My favorite levels in the Jungle World rank were Jungle World 3 - Ziggurat and Jungle World 6 - Excavation :thumbsup: The latter in particular is difficult, but it has such a great solution :) The former isn't as difficult, but I really love how the solution comes together and what needs to be done in order to keep the crowd and pre-placed neutral safe.

For Jungle World 10, sorry to say it, but the fact that things kept failing by a pixel or I kept being a skill short made me not like the level as much as I should had. It normally takes a lot before I rage at a Lemmings level, and this happens to be one of the few that did manage to get me to rage. It's a really nice challenging level and all, but all the precision that's needed made me think otherwise. I ended up solving the original version before I solved the update version you see in the LP, as I wanted to figure out the first version as well since I couldn't solve it for a while. I saw that an extra jumper was given, as well as some kinks in the wall on the right, and I thought even with an extra jumper it's still not that easy for me. However, the solution involves something that I might had already been aware of, I just never fully realized it.

Spoiler

Stackers actually place the stack a pixel lower once a digger is digging nothing away. Thus, I had rejected going underneath the wall way too early and instead kept trying to get to the other side up higher, which of course resulted in me wishing I had one more digger. Not sure why it took me so long to realize this and to finally solve it, but I finally managed to do it :)

Some level feedback:

Spoiler

Jungle World 1 - Welcome to Jungle World Nice, somewhat challenging level to start off the pack

Jungle World 2 - Encore This one was a bit difficult, but it's really just the timing that's hard. The solution is simpler than it appears.

Jungle World 3 - I actually learned something new here, and that is I didn't know that neutrals can interact with buttons. Now that I think about it, I guess it makes sense, since they can interact with traps/exits, so therefore they aren't excluded from buttons. I really like the puzzle of figuring out how to get the neutral out from being stuck in an endless loop between the wall/one-way force field, as well as getting the button to the left of where the neutral starts. Figuring out the bottom level is tricky, but quite a nice one.

Jungle World 5 - The two towers Looks quite intimidating with the extremely wide gap, but it's actually not that hard. Cloners FTW :laugh: Though, I didn't like how in the end I kept failing by a pixel. I also have a glider leftover.

Jungle World 7 - Shibboleth This one was also difficult, but it's a really nice level. The bombers to free the neutrals are a bit precise, but I like how you need to release them so that they all walk to the center except for one which will go to push the buttons.

Jungle World 9 - Entrapment This one was also difficult for me. I'm sure this is a backroute, though. Certainly the hardest part seems to be to make sure no one bunches up due to the one-way force fields.

Jungle World 11 - Riddle of the Ancients I understand that this wasn't originally part of the initial pack release, as this was a secret level. Now it's the final level of the rank. Didn't take me as long as I thought it would. I don't think this is intended, though?

I will continue through the rest of the pack later on! :) Overall, great job so far and I'm enjoying the pack a lot. Very challenging levels that are satisfying to figure out and solve. I'm also aware that some levels have changed in the meantime, but luckily I was only on the Jungle World rank by the time the second version of the pack was released. For this, I might just simply tack on the resolved solutions of the Jungle World levels that changed at the very end of my LP. Meaning, the levels you see in the LP are from the 1st version. Generally, I don't go back and resolve updated levels if an update happens while my LP is in progress. Again, as I said before luckily the only levels I need to resolve are the Jungle World ones, as I was stuck horribly on Jungle World 10 by the time the second version of the pack dropped.

Hi kaywhyn!

Thank you so much for your kind words! I'm glad you liked our levels, especially Excavation (that one's a personal favourite of mine!)
My brother and I are both thrilled by your let's play pack, it feels so entertaining to see another person work their way through our levels :)

You did manage to discover several backroutes! Your solution for Ziggurat, Waste not want not and What goes up are actually backroutes (we addressed this in the last update), and there are a couple of backroutes in your gear solutions too, that we're already working on fixing.

As for Lemdiana Jones, it's intended to be very difficult, which is why it's the final level, but neither of us realised it would be so hard.
We honestly had no idea that this level would cause so much trouble, as Jungle world is supposed to be the easiest rank (in fact I considered placing Riddle of the Ancients at position #10, and having Lemdiana be the secret level, but decided that Lemdiana would be easier than Riddle. How badly I was mistaken! :forehead:)
That being said, your solution is actually a backroute! We'll be releasing a solution pack, shortly, as well as a final updates pack to fix a few issues.

Thank you so much for taking the time to play our pack! We really appreciate it, and we're looking forward to the rest of your LP!

92Dexter11

Quote from: Armani on April 21, 2021, 06:39:41 AM
I've resolved updated levels for remaining 2 ranks.
Attached zip file is full set of my replays for LemRunner V2.0

You only need to check the following levels :
Wacky 3,6,7,8,9
Industry 2,4,5,6,7,8,9,10


comments for individual levels

Wacky3 Non sequitur - I still think this is the easiest level of the rank. It's very clear where I should use each skill. But it's still not that easy because I had to time the stacker so the pioneer lemming has enough time to platform over the gap.
Wacky6 Loony bin - Certainly less hackish than before. I reckon this could be intended. Pretty neat level! :D
Wacky7 The Gibbering Cliffs - I think I got the main trick of the level : bombing one of the platform, digging another platform inside the splat pad area and let the crowd fall to anti splat pad area. I have a stoner and many cloners to spare though. I have no idea where all these cloners are needed.
Wacky8 Neurosis is no excuse for bad manners - Attached several solutions. I suspect none of them are intended.
Wacky9 When Life Gives You Lemmings - I still have some leftover skills on this level.
Industry2 Bait and switchboard - Almost same solution here. The only difference is that I used a blocker this time to prevent the crowd going to fire trap.
Industry4 Livewire Lemmings - I know this solution is acceptable. Last update broke my replay so I just slightly adjust the position of some skills.
Industry5 Lemming on high - Yes, I can roughly see what intended solution looks like now but I would rather backroute the level than solve it in intended way. :evil:
Industry6 Storage facility 22-A - I used mid-air stoner trick again! And It seems that sometimes a bomber is more powerful than a basher, so I spare a stoner this time. Let's see if this is acceptable or not..
Industry7 Retrograde - Attached several different solutions. Each solution contains the crowd at different locations. The first solution looks most promising imo.
Industry8 The night shift - This also feels good. But I think this level is too easy for its position.(if my solution is intended of course)
Industry9 The specialist - I used all the given skill this time. Hopefully this is closer to intended.
Industry10 Dead weight - I think I got the main theme of the level : You can't beat the neutral to the gold + you must collect walker pick-up before collecting the final gold. The only possibility in this case is that I should free the zombie and drop him exactly to the neutral to zombify him so he can't collect the final gold. But the problem is that the execution is way too precise. Even after I realize that I should drop the zombie to the neutral, I failed many times by few frames. Finally I got a solution that successfully drop zombie to the neutral but there're some hackish, heavily timing-based things. I think I could've spare some skills(e.g a stacker and a jumper at the top platform) if I timed it better but I'm too lazy to actually do so... The main idea is actually fantastic and creative but I think the execution is way too precise.(I'm sorry if dropping the zombie to the neutral is not what you intended or there is an easier way to do so...)

Hi Armani!
You've done another great job with these replays. Most of your solutions seem to be what's intended, but there are few backroutes here and there:
Spoiler

My levels and commentary:
Ziggurat - Yep! This solution only differs slightly from the intended solution, but you've pretty much got it
What Goes Up - The solution is closer now, but still a backroute. Locking the spawn rate oughta fix it, as that would force the player to use one extra builder
Entrapment - Hmmm... another backroute. This one will require more work, it seems.

Switching gears - Your replay is 90% similar to the intended solution; you are correct in saying that bashing the metal is unintended. There is a much more glaring backroute that I also recently became aware of; the entire bottom platform needs reinforcing.
Smoke stacks - This level is intended to be somewhat freeform; I don't consider your solution to be a backroute, since it seems much more elaborate than the intended solution
Two by Four - You are correct in that this solution is much closer to what I had intended! However, it still sort-of defeats the challenge of the level. I'll try again to remove more backroutes, but I fear it may not be possible. At any rate, I feel this level is challenging enough even if I am unable to fix it entirely.

Catch my Drift - I kind of got the feeling that you like backrouting levels! ;) I don't feel the need to modify this level further, since I want it to be somewhat lenient (it is the second level of the pack, after all).
Sync or swim - Very close to the intended solution, well done!
Any way the wind blows - This is completely unintended; you've once again blown me away with your amazing problem solving skills.

Loony Bin - This is a backroute; the terrain to the right of spawn is intended to be a complete misdirect. It seems I will have to do some repositioning!

Bait and switchboard - Another backroute; luckily this one seems easy to fix. I'll modify it once more, then leave it be, since it isn't intended to be overly challenging.
Lemming on high - This one was tricky to fix; looks like it's back to the drawing board!
Retrograde -  I was worried this level had a lot of backroutes... I'll fix the more obvious ones, but making it completely backroute-proof may not be possible. I might have to bump this one up the level order towards the easier levels.



Tan's levels and commentary:
Waste not, want not - A very clever solution but still a backroute, unfortunately. I think those upper pillars need to be lowered... :devil:
Lemdiana Jones - Hmm... Looks like further tweaking is required here...
Riddle of the Ancients - Same again. You're very good at this! :XD:

Measure once, build twice - You are correct that this is the intended solution. :thumbsup: However, Kaywhyn has found another backroute that was very similar to your original solution! More tweaking is needed...
Authorised Lemmings Only! - A perfect solution! Brilliantly done! :thumbsup:
Just another cog in the machine - This solution is more or less intended. Good job on saving over the requirement! I may consider adding a talisman for saving more than 50/60. :thumbsup:

Tightrope Citadel - Another perfect solution! :thumbsup:
Ad astra per aspera - A good solution, but I still consider it a backroute. I think the leftmost coins need to be raised higher.
A caelo usque ad centrum - Similarly for this solution. Your solution is very close, but I think the level needs another tweak.
Ascending and descending - Yet another perfect solution! Awesome! :thumbsup:

Non Sequitur - Another backroute! Climbing over that last plant pot was a nice touch. :P I think I can easily fix, though.
The Gibbering Cliffs - This solution is the intended one, except it's actually a lot more efficient than mine! :forehead: This level may see a tweak in the future...
Neurosis is no excuse for bad manners - All solutions are unintended, unfortunately. But that's my fault, not yours. :P
When Life Gives You Lemmings - Again, another backroute. Your solution is pretty close to what was intended, though.

Storage facility 22-A - The mid air stoner trick is actually intended for this level! (We were very impressed by your usage in the wacky level Know when to hold them. It wasn't intended there, but well done anyway!) The use of the bomber here is a backroute, but this one is easily fixed with a bit of metal.
The night shift - Another very direct solution to the problem. I'll need to tweak the level to make it as difficult as intended. :devil:
The Specialist - Another very clever solution, but still not what I was thinking of. Back to the drawing board for me...
Dead weight - Aha! Excellent solution for this one! Turning the neutral lemming into a zombie was indeed the correct trick for this level. The difficulty mainly lies in synchronising the zombie with the neutral lemming. In the official solution, the zombie is dropped to the left of the electric gizmo, but your solution is still perfectly valid. Nicely done! :thumbsup:



kaywhyn

Quote from: 92Dexter11 on April 21, 2021, 10:22:44 PM
Hi kaywhyn!

Thank you so much for your kind words! I'm glad you liked our levels, especially Excavation (that one's a personal favourite of mine!)
My brother and I are both thrilled by your let's play pack, it feels so entertaining to see another person work their way through our levels :)

Hi Dexter,

Thank you for your kind words in return :) I'm more than happy to share aloud my thought processes on how I approach level solving with my LPs. Indeed, these seem to be a huge hit with the community, as everyone who has responded to the poll in my topic here https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5180.0;viewresults have indicated that my LPs have been a joy to watch. Since that has been the case since I put up the poll several months ago, I thus continue to do LPs, so long as they're a joy to watch and I continue to enjoy myself doing them, which I am ;)

Quote
You did manage to discover several backroutes! Your solution for Ziggurat, Waste not want not and What goes up are actually backroutes (we addressed this in the last update), and there are a couple of backroutes in your gear solutions too, that we're already working on fixing.

Regarding the Jungle World, that's because the solutions you see in them are version 1.0. I'm well-aware that several of them have been updated for v2.0, I just keep going with the pack until I get through it. I might just tack on the changed levels at the very end of the LP. Everything else including Jungle World 10 and after are version 2.0.

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As for Lemdiana Jones, it's intended to be very difficult, which is why it's the final level, but neither of us realised it would be so hard.
We honestly had no idea that this level would cause so much trouble, as Jungle world is supposed to be the easiest rank (in fact I considered placing Riddle of the Ancients at position #10, and having Lemdiana be the secret level, but decided that Lemdiana would be easier than Riddle. How badly I was mistaken! :forehead:)
That being said, your solution is actually a backroute! We'll be releasing a solution pack, shortly, as well as a final updates pack to fix a few issues.

My solution to Lemdiana Jones is still a backroute in v2.0 even though I used all of the skills? Interesting. It's likely the way I solved it that caused me to not like it as much since I did note that my solution uses a lot of pixel precision. A lot of things kept failing by a single pixel or I kept being a skill short.

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Thank you so much for taking the time to play our pack! We really appreciate it, and we're looking forward to the rest of your LP!

Now I have a new roadblock, which is Gear World 7. Hence why you and your brother haven't seen any new videos from me for almost 2 days. Again, not asking for a hint, I will keep trying. So far, the best I've done is a lose 1 solution on a save all level. Difficult level this one is. Not sure if I'm overlooking something really obvious that I haven't tried yet. So close, yet still so far from the end of the rank :XD:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

92Dexter11

#23
Special thanks to Armani and Kaywhyn for sharing their solutions with us! All backroutes should (hopefully) have been fixed with this latest update. The link in the original post has been amended to cointain the latest version.

Also included is the intended solutions for all the levels.

Changelog
Spoiler

What Goes Up - Repositioned terrain slightly, and locked spawn rate
Waste not, want not - Lowered some columns to prevent a backroute. Hopefully this will teach people not to be so wasteful...
Entrapment - Added another gold, and tweaked the skillset slightly
Lemdiana Jones - More tweaks to terrain.
Riddle of the Ancients - Took a chisel and carved out a big hole. Also a few tweaks to aesthetics.

Trial By Fire - Restricted the skillset to prevent a backroute
Switching Gears - Reinforced the lower platform to completely prevent turning lemmings around
Like Clockwork - Added a metal block to prevent the zombie from being freed
Authorised Lemmings Only! - Removed a misplaced terrain piece. No change to solution, and existing replay files should still work.
Two By Four - Reworked the skillset. That oughta throw a wrench into some gears... ;)

Ad astra per aspera - Moved the leftmost two coins upwards, ruined the pillars, and removed the updraft to the right. Save requirement reduced by 1.
A caelo usque ad centrum - Slight terrain modification. A crack has appeared...
Any Way The Wind Blows - Added some hanging terrain pieces to thwart a backroute

Non Sequitur - Added a curious new friend! :cute:
Loony Bin - Small terrain repositioning
The Gibbering Cliffs - Changes to terrain to prevent a potential backroute.
Neurosis is no excuse for bad manners - Added egg. Added metal. Added some lovely numbers.
When life gives you lemmings - Rearranged both eggs and citrus. Should be healthier now.

Bait And Switchboard - Reduced the size of some terrain to prevent a backroute
Retrograde - Added reinforcements beneath the zombie container; changed its position in the level rank to be an easier level.
Lemming On High - Minor rework to the level; the exit is now one platform over, and there's an extra gold in its place. Skills have been changed too.
Storage Facility 22-A - Added metal to the exit platform.
The Night Shift - Heaped some more empty boxes on to a load bearing platform.
The Specialist - Added more hazards and metal.

kaywhyn

Still no luck with Gear World 7. Since Armani has been able to solve it, that indicates the level is indeed possible (of course tan x can also confirm since he's the author of the level) with the given skillset (3 climbers, 1 jumper, 3 stackers, 3 builders, 1 glider, and 1 miner) and hence I'm likely missing something really obvious or probably some very advanced technique that's preventing me from solving it, as the best I keep doing is a lose 1 solution.

Spoiler

I realized that a lemming has to climb out the left side via jumping, as there's just not enough time to finish the level otherwise. Also, at least 1 lemming keeps slipping by before the staircase to the wall is done, and hence the best I keep on doing is a lose 1 solution.

Honestly, I'm just at a loss as to what else I haven't yet tried, but I will keep trying. Guess I just need to take a break from the level/pack. I could just watch the replay or ask tan x for a hint, but that's just not me when it comes to level solving in Lemmings, as I like to figure out levels for myself. At least not before I have solved the level myself. I only watch after just to compare.

Here's hoping I can get myself unstuck sooner rather than later 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Armani

resolved all the updated levels
Attached zip file is full set of my replays for LemRunner V3.0

You only need to check the following levels :
Jungle 4 8 9 10 11
Gear 5 10
Mona 6 8 9
Wacky 3,6,7,8,9
Industry 2,5,7,8,9

Spoiler

Jungle4 What goes up - Seems good but I have a digger left.
Jungle8 Waste not, want not - I still spare some builders.
Jungle9 Entrapment - Attached two different solutions. I feel like second one is intended.
Jungle10 Lemdiana Jones - No glider solution again :evil:
Jungle11 Riddle of the Ancients - I didn't use the shimmer. I expect I was able to save the shimmier since I timed the final builder nicely.
Gear5 Switching gears - I tweak my previous solution a little bit. This feels intended now :thumbsup:
Gear10 Two by four - Seems intended. I save much more than required though, that's the only suspicious thing.
Mona6 Ad astra per aspera - I still have a lot of leftover skills.
Mona8 A caelo usque ad centrum - This feels intended too.
Mona9 Any way the wind blows - And this is my new favourite level of the rank :thumbsup: The stoner trick is extremely hard to see. Very hard and very clever level.
Wacky3 Non sequitur - This level was not a easy level at all! looks simple but it's actually a deceivingly hard level!
Wacky6 Loony bin - Another backroute ;P I spared a bomber.
Wacky7 The Gibbering Cliffs - Last update broke my replay so I adjust the position of some skills.
Wacky8 Neurosis is no excuse for bad manners - this feels intended :thumbsup:
Wacky9 When Life Gives You Lemmings - I have some leftover skills on this one.
Industry2 Bait and switchboard - This also feels intended.
Industry5 Lemming on high - Almost same backroute ;P
Industry7 Storage Facility 22-A - I got no-bomber solution :evil:
Industry8 The night shift - I bet this is intended. very nice level again
Industry9 The specialist - Slight variation to my previous backroute.
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

92Dexter11

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 26, 2021, 09:42:25 PM
Still no luck with Gear World 7. Since Armani has been able to solve it, that indicates the level is indeed possible (of course tan x can also confirm since he's the author of the level) with the given skillset (3 climbers, 1 jumper, 3 stackers, 3 builders, 1 glider, and 1 miner) and hence I'm likely missing something really obvious or probably some very advanced technique that's preventing me from solving it, as the best I keep doing is a lose 1 solution.

Hi Kaywhyn!

My brother and I have both seen your latest replay for Gear World 7, and we both encourage you to keep at it! You're very close to the intended solution ;)

If you're still finding it too difficult, why not start another world and come back to Gear World later? Each world is intended to be slightly harder than the previous, but they all start off relatively easy and get progressively harder, so there's no specific "route" that is intended.

Good luck!

92Dexter11

Quote from: Armani on April 27, 2021, 09:51:22 AM
resolved all the updated levels
Attached zip file is full set of my replays for LemRunner V3.0

Hi Armani!
Once again, another very fine set of solutions! Many of these seem to be very close to what we intended! :thumbsup:
We simply have to applaud you for your incredible problem solving skills; you're really keeping us on our toes here! :thumbsup:

Spoiler

What Goes Up - Very close to the intended solution; I feel no need to modify this any further, seeing as how your solution uses the forcefields, which is what I intended.
Waste not, want not - We may have to remove the hanging pillars; having a lemming turn around there seems to throw off the intended solution.
Entrapment - You are correct in that the second solution is what is intended! The first solution seems somewhat harder to pull off, plus I don't really know how to fix this backroute without changing the main conceit of the level, so it appears you have bested me! Very well done! :thumbsup:
Lemdiana Jones - Hmmm... Once again, great solution! This level will need more work.
Riddle of the Ancients - This replay is very close to the intended solution! My bro says he accepts it. Great work!

Switching gears - This is what is intended; great work!
Two by four - This is indeed the intended solution; you saved a bit more than necessary because you were more efficient with your timings; very well done!

Ad astra per aspera - A major backroute. Fortunately, I think there's a simple fix... Hopefully! ;)
A caelo usque ad centrum - My bro tells me this solution is acceptable. Great work! :thumbsup:
Any way the wind blows - Thank you! I'm very proud of the misdirect on this level; your solution is completely correct!

Non sequitur - Yeah, you got it! ;)
Loony bin - Yet another backroute; I feel that the intended solution is a bit more straightforward, however, so I'm not sure whether the level needs updating... I'll take another look.
Neurosis is no excuse for bad manners - Great work, this is more or less intended.
When Life Gives You Lemmings - This is one cheeky backroute! Well done once again! ;P

Bait and switchboard - Solution is intended - well done!
Lemming on high - You're very good at backrouting this level! Fortunately, I feel as though this might be easily fixed with a well-placed block of metal.
Storage Facility 22-A - Nicely done, but still technically a backroute. My bro says he knows how to fix this one.
The night shift - Well done! The builder-cage trick is intended.
The specialist - Once again, you're great at getting the neutral lemming into places where he shouldn't be! :evil: This level is really difficult to balance due to its complexity!

kaywhyn

#28
Hi Dexter/tan x,

Good news. After being stupidly stumped for almost 2 months, I finally solved Gear World 7. Turns out I had the solution almost all correct this entire time, but there was one very small but crucial thing that I didn't see for a very long time :forehead:

Spoiler

The key here was RR manipulation several times at the beginning so that enough lemmings at a time can get by each individual stack, and this turned out to be the missing piece, as before the climber would always slip by the builder before he could seal off the gap. Here, the builder was too slow by 1-2 builder bricks, and the most important thing was making sure not to keep the RR maxed out the entire time.

It's interesting, really, because while I was having my lunch break earlier today this Eureka moment all of a sudden came to me and I kept praying in my mind that it would work as I was going to try after I finish my lunch. Lo and behold, it does! :)

Anyway, I just wanted to give you two an update and that I will resume my LP of LemRunner next week now that I finally managed to get myself unstuck :thumbsup: I'm still currently on my hiatus from Lemmings, but rest assured that the series will resume where I left off now that I have had success in getting unstuck.

I will post my replays/feedback once I finish up Gear World. 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

92Dexter11

Hi Kaywhyn,

We're looking forward to seeing the rest of your playthrough.

We enjoyed watching your attempts of gear world 7, because you were so close to the solution!

Good luck :thumbsup: