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Messages - IchoTolot

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2731
Closed / [Suggestion][GST] Sound preview for Objects
« on: March 15, 2017, 01:24:22 PM »
When choosing a sound for an object and you want to actually test hear it, you'll have to save the tileset first and test it out in the editor, which is slow and complicated for that simple task.

Why not have a sound test button there which allows you to hear the selected sound for test purposes right in the GST? ???

Right now I have no idea which of the "Custom Sounds 1-10" is which and no intent to try them out one by one using the editor method. As I would really like to know for example which one is the LP IV Space teleporter sound for the upcomming format change.

2732
With the upcomming format change, I've decided to couple that update with a few other changes that are mostly very minor, but as a preperation for you and a reminder for me I've made a list:

1.) The sarcophagus of the Egyptian set will be removed as an object and return as a terrain piece!
Level using the object won't be broken as it will simply disappear from levels. So only optional decorative fix is needed.

2.) The libra of the Egyptian set will be removed as an object and return as a terrain piece!
Level using the object won't be broken as it will simply disappear from levels. So only optional decorative fix is needed.

3.) I will add an animation to the Egyptian staff object that shall clarify that this is an decorative object.

4.) In L2 Egyptian the large object containg the staff thing (currently O 12) which acted as a placeholder for that unfair trap taken over from Lemmini can finally go as the order is not relevant anymore after the format change. As the staff is still there in it's normal form and the placeholder is a no-trigger object everything should be just fine.

5.) Adding numerous L2 Sports tiles. Raymanni noticed a few tiles missing and it should be no problem to add them.

Image of the tiles attached!

6.) I still want some animation for the trees of L2 Shadow. Some leaves moving in the wind or a slight glow in them. But here I would need some help. If anyone has made an animation please send it to me!

7.) Will add a slight glowing animation for the no light lamp of L2 Shadow. This shall clarify that this is an decorative object. + some general visual improvents

8.) Object 3-6 of the Shadow set will be removed as an object and return as a terrain piece!
Level using the object won't be broken as it will simply disappear from levels. So only optional decorative fix is needed.

Objects can be seen here: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2643.msg57285#msg57285

9.) Better piece names for Dune and my tilesets listed here: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3330.0
100% internal change.

10) Deleting the decorative Lemmings in Shadow, sports and egyptian.
Levels using the object won't be broken as it will simply disappear from levels. So only optional decorative fix is needed.

11) Oudoors bush eyes will be merged into the no edge-bush version
Levels using the object won't be broken, but the decoration would need to be rechecked.

The changes will start when the experimental version becomes "safe to convert". When I finished the changes I will send the updated tilesets back to namida so that the exp player uses the updated versions as well.

2733
Levels for v10 or older / Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Stampede
« on: March 14, 2017, 04:07:57 PM »
Will look into the pack again soon, but now my own stuff needs some love as well ;)

2734
Lemmings Main / Re: Recommendations for new players?
« on: March 14, 2017, 04:03:49 PM »
yeah start with easy stuff. Starting with the difficult packs will most likely deter some people.

Start with the original game (or the redux pack which is currently in progress) then move on the custom packs.

Easy stuff yes, but not the original games.

Nearly everyone who is joining here knows the original levels; some even by hard. So why advertising them the same old boring stuff? (That's mostly not even that good comapared to todays puzzles in my opinion)

Give them some recommendations for good, easier custom packs and even a few advanced difficulty ones for if they are feeling brave enough or want to know what can be possible.
I would not only mention easy packs as even newer players should also see the advanced challenges that await them. Who did not peak into the higher ratings back in the days?

You can maybe mention that there are the old games as well, but I would not put them at the top of the list.

For easier packs I personally would put Geofflems, LP1 and maybe even PimoLems on the list as this pack starts out slow as well. If Revenge of the Lemmings would get updated it would also be a perfect canidate. And maybe some day I find the time to convert DoveLems as well which would fit in perfectly here (reminding myself here that this needs to be done :P).

2735
Closed / Re: [Showcase + Discussion] Teleporter corner cases
« on: March 12, 2017, 11:31:05 AM »
Simply centering it would be bad as the lem would spawn into the air.

Horizontal center + vertical bottom (so ground level) would be better if changes were to be made to the receiver. The would most likely just break replays that are using teleporters (but levels need to be rechecked).

2736
Levels for v10 or older / Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Stampede
« on: March 10, 2017, 03:26:56 PM »
Same for Wicked and Havoc ;)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

2737
Closed / Re: [Showcase + Discussion] Teleporter corner cases
« on: March 10, 2017, 12:00:08 PM »
I don't know what we can reasonably expect people to assume when it comes to teleports, since there is no real-life experiences other than maybe other games, and I'm sure it's not very consistent from game to game either.  I haven't tested it, but I'm guessing Lemmings 2's teleports are probably skill-canceling and outputs to same location.  On the other hand, although I haven't played those games at all, I have a feeling those portals in the "Portals" series of games probably behave much more like what we have here, where a lot of state get transferred directly to the output.

Interesting point. In fact the L2 teleporters are extremely different: They can teleport as many lemmings as they want + even the entrance has just a 1 pixel trigger as every other object there, which I would say is a big disadvantage as you can easily cover up a 1 pixel trigger by accident.
The portals from Portal are a good analogy here :)

I think it's more important to understand if the current behavior are actually creating situations where the level author and level players can easily shoot themselves in the foot?  That is, the level author isn't intentionally making use of, say, the output offset behavior, but the behavior introduces unwanted precision for the level players in a level, and at the same time the level author can't easily tweak the level to remove the precision?  This would make for more convincing arguments than corner cases, otherwise it feels a little like hidden traps, where we've simply been "handling" things by telling people they are lame.

I also think that for discoverability, it would be easy enough to create an introductory level for teleports that directly require and illustrate these two behaviors, by making it obvious in the level that the player have to, say, use one single builder who gets teleported mid-build.  It would at least directly show the skill-preserving behavior, and the more observant may also see the offset-preserving behavior as well.

It may also be interesting to think about consistency, even though there is no direct requirement for unrelated things to share similar behaviors.  For example, blockers' effects on other lemmings are at least skill-preserving in most if not all cases (not sure a clear analogy can be made there for the output offset aspect).

The hidden trap treatment could work although I feel this even less stinky as it still displays everything and in itself the action is logical as you get toknow the background. An introduction level could also be very helpful.

There are more problems with changing the recievers trigger area to 1 pixel than the fixing of levels and a ton of replays:

Every tileset creator would need to change up their tileset to the new standard (+ new tileset creators must know about this). Given the way that not every person is quick on the updates (or even ignores them; compare to the background image change disaster) this could lead to even more inconsistancies as sometimes the new, sometimes still the old standard applies. This would end in pure chaos as I know how those things tend to end here! :8():
Tilesets included in most packs would also need to be updated otherwise more chaos.


I must say after discovering it: The teleportation of the current skill like a builder is a cool mechanic that could open up for interesting puzzles ;)  Make a quick introduction level in your pack and then use it advanced situations.

2738
Levels for v10 or older / Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Stampede
« on: March 09, 2017, 09:11:23 PM »
Havoc and Wicked resolved :)


2739
I even use this behavior and know quite a few levels by others that use that ;)   Always assumed that this is common knowledge by now :P

2740
Closed / [Showcase + Discussion] Teleporter corner cases
« on: March 09, 2017, 04:34:55 PM »
Simon and I found teleporter corner cases and we've made a test level! Attached with solution.

Save a Lem from every hatch using teleporter mechanics!

(Design loosely inspired by fishthekiller ;P)



4 lems, save 3.
Middle hatch spawns 2 lems, others spawn 1 each.
2 climbers,
1 bomber,
1 builder,
1 platformer.

Solutions:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

These are extreme corner cases, but we wanted to share them with everyone ;)

IchoTolot suggests to keep the current receiver output behavior. As if we change the output to put lemmings always in the same spot like a hatch; this change would affect every teleporter level in existance.
The continuing of skills is debatable and both possibilities would make sense. Keeping and changing are both viable options. + this trick hasn't been used yet to my knowledge :P

Simon isn't sure what to suggest. The output offset irritates him most, more than the kept skill irritates.

-- Simon and Icho

2741
Levels for v10 or older / Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Stampede
« on: March 09, 2017, 01:05:14 PM »
Havoc 1 resolved.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Also Wicked solved 8-)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

2742
NeoLemmix Levels / Re: [NeoLemmix] NepsterLems
« on: March 09, 2017, 12:54:24 PM »
Time for an update to version 1.10:
- Backroute fixes to Divorce, HangLem and One Minute of Action.

Time for more backroutes for HangLem and One Minute of Action as well :evil:

Hanglem is looking more and more like swiss cheese filled with spike traps :P    Maybe consider altering the intended solution to make the level(s) fixable or change the swiss cheese effect. I can assure you that at least Hanglem I would still consider as extremly hard in this stage with my solution!

2743
Levels for v10 or older / Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Stampede
« on: March 08, 2017, 07:11:29 PM »
Rsolved the 2 Havoc levels :)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also could you reset the level id of Havoc 5 to a new one? (There is a button for that in the editor) The Mass Replay checker matches it with the Wild version and gives out that the replay has failed. I suspect you simply altered the level and saved it under a different name ---> keeping the same id.

I even should have pointed out earlier that I played the levels on the exp version :P

2744
I don't use the window mode, but in fullscreen I highly prefer the experimental layout.

I'll leave the discussion on if to use the older switching layout for the windowed mode for the users that are actually using it most of the time :P   

But you have to remember: The window mode on a larger screen could also benefit from the new layout, so hard locking it to the older layout might not be optimal.

2745
Levels for v10 or older / Re: [NeoLemmix] Lemmings Stampede
« on: March 08, 2017, 04:32:37 PM »
Havoc finished 8-)

Replays attached.

Feedback, which contains major spoilers:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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