Poll

Skill panel - should "display all 16 skills" always be used?

Yes; all 16 skills should always be displayed
0 (0%)
No, keep an option to only display 8 skill panels (with them varying by level)
2 (66.7%)
Mixed; have an option to only display 8 panels in packs that only use the 8 traditional skills, but always display all 16 in packs that make use of NeoLemmix skills
1 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Author Topic: 2.00 Customizable skill panel  (Read 11701 times)

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Offline namida

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2.00 Customizable skill panel
« on: July 23, 2015, 02:32:33 AM »
So, I've stated that I plan to make the skill panel much more customizable. The question though is - how much?

Some things I've considered are:

1. User's choice of what information is shown, and where, on the panel. Possible things to include are everything on the current one, with both cloner-adjusted percents and lemming counts as an option where relevant (I'll probably drop the absolute percents, and just leave the cloner-adjusted ones). That aside, other common suggestions are the save requirement, the total lemming count, the killed count, etc. Feel free to suggest as many ideas as you like; the goal here is that you can pick and choose which ones (and where) are displayed so it isn't a huge issue if there's a million options.

2. Custom skill ordering, options to display all 16 skills (or at least empty slots where they'd be) regardless of what's used in the level.

3. Buttons for other features, such as restart, save replay, etc.

So - let me know what your ideal skill panel would look like! If you feel like doing a mock-up of it, even better - in this case, keep in mind that the skill panel should be one of the following sizes:

320x40 (Low-Res, Non-Widescreen)
640x80 (Hi-Res, Non-Widescreen)
424x40 (Low-Res, Widescreen)
848x80 (Hi-Res, Widescreen)

Additionally, each element should start at a position where both coordinates are divisible by 8. Essentially, think of it as being made up of 8x8 cells, with each element taking up one or more of these. A single letter or number would take up one cell (other than skill counts, where both digits could presumably fit in a single cell - I haven't worked out exactly how these will work yet, so for now just go with the assumption that they'll remain the same size they currently are, but don't have to be aligned to the 8x8 positioning); other elements (such as buttons) could take up multiple.
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Offline Minim

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Re: 2.00 Customizable skill panel
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2015, 10:07:24 AM »
I've thought of a few things, probably won't make much difference but it's at least an attempt to try something different.

* Highlighting the background around the selected skill rather than outlining it (Screenshot below). I wonder if this can be expanded to make it flash.
* Changing the color of the skill number to red if there's one skill left.
* Adding a sound effect when pressing the Nuke button (Oh-no! might work for that)
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Offline namida

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Re: 2.00 Customizable skill panel
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2015, 04:36:24 AM »
Quote
* Highlighting the background around the selected skill rather than outlining it (Screenshot below). I wonder if this can be expanded to make it flash.
* Changing the color of the skill number to red if there's one skill left.
* Adding a sound effect when pressing the Nuke button (Oh-no! might work for that)

1. So, in general, what you're saying is "make it more obvious which is the selected skill"? I'm sure I can come up with something in that regard. :)
2. That one should be doable too.
3. This one can definitely be done.

Is there much else people would like to say on this? For that matter, does anyone actually have a strong interest in being able to customize the skill bar at all? (Since it goes without saying, this WILL be a complicated thing to implement, so if there's little interest in it, I might not bother beyond a few simple options (such as making an option to turn on / off Minim's second suggestion)



To explain more in depth about the poll options - and please vote based on what you'd actually use, not "oooh this'd be cool to play around with for 5 minutes" or "someone out there might like it":

1. Basically, everything. You can choose the placement of the skill buttons, which extra buttons appear. You could choose whether to have a percentage or a lemming count shown. You could choose whether to have the lemming count initially count down from the requirement to zero (then go up to show how many extra you've saved) or work the traditional way. You could even have the top line of text replaced with "All your base are belong to us". Or maybe not quite to that extent, but you get the idea.

2. The release rate buttons and the 8 skills would be in fixed positions, after which you can choose buttons in the remaining area between the 8th skill slot and the minimap (including whether or not to have Pause and Nuke there).

3. Think like option 1, but only for the info area, not the skills area.

4, 5 & 6. Pretty much exactly what they say on the tin. Although option 6 is unlikely to happen, since NeoLemmix already has a few customization options here.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 02:10:10 PM by namida »
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Offline namida

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Re: 2.00 Customizable skill panel
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2015, 02:11:27 PM »
I reset the poll because I realised it really really needed an "options 2 & 3 combined" choice, so I added one. Feel free to reply if none of the options represent exactly what you think it should be like. And for reference, if option 2 seems to be the final decision, it's likely it'll be more of an "option 2 & 5 hybrid".
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Offline mobius

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Re: 2.00 Customizable skill panel
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2015, 09:37:47 PM »
My personal preferences: [not very different from the current honestly]

I like the blank box instead of zero skill count better. Only because it's easier to see, but it's not a huge deal to me.

I really like idea of having the Lems/save requirements shown in the area on the left, alternating between the lemming identification message when moused over a lemming. This is an easy way [well I'm assuming easy to program perhaps incorrectly] but simple to input some info without cluttering up the info area or changing any thing else. Anybody else have thoughts on this?
[if you don't understand what I'm talking about take a look at the info bar in WinLems]

Also it might be nice to add the title of the level somewhere in the viewer but idk where. If it's in windowed mode it could display in the menu bar.

I don't really mind about customizing the skill panel too much. The only thing I've ever thought seemed out of place was the cloner being all the way to the right of the digger. Maybe because most of the other new skills are on the left side. The clone has a little bit in common with the walker so it seems more in place over there but idk. It doesn't bother me too much. Most of my requests involve other areas of the program. [like having different sound effects :P ]
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Offline namida

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Re: 2.00 Customizable skill panel
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2015, 02:16:14 AM »
Quote
I like the blank box instead of zero skill count better. Only because it's easier to see, but it's not a huge deal to me.

This has been proposed several times, so will almost certianly be an option. Most likely, the choices will be "Display 0", "Leave blank", "White out".

Quote
I really like idea of having the Lems/save requirements shown in the area on the left, alternating between the lemming identification message when moused over a lemming. This is an easy way [well I'm assuming easy to program perhaps incorrectly] but simple to input some info without cluttering up the info area or changing any thing else. Anybody else have thoughts on this?

There's now room for four times as much writing in that area, so it won't be a hassle to show all of this information at the same time. (Current setup allows one line of up to 40 characters, new setup allows up to two lines of 80 characters each.)

Quote
Also it might be nice to add the title of the level somewhere in the viewer but idk where. If it's in windowed mode it could display in the menu bar.

This can certianly be done.

Quote
The only thing I've ever thought seemed out of place was the cloner being all the way to the right of the digger. Maybe because most of the other new skills are on the left side. The clone has a little bit in common with the walker so it seems more in place over there but idk.

Essentially this is a result of the Cloner being invented later than the other 7 new skills. Coding was done to support up to 8 new skills; but only 7 were immediately used, with the remaining empty slot being after the digger. Though I do think it might get confusing if these two skills are next to each other?



To those who voted for "full customizability" - is there anything in particular you'd like to have among the options? I'm guessing reordering the skills (and relocating where the skills, as a whole, are displayed; plus equivalent options for the information displayed in-game) would be part of it, but anything else you'd specifically like to be included?
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Offline namida

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Re: 2.00 Customizable skill panel
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2015, 04:47:36 AM »
So, here's two possibilities for the info panel display style. It will be very little work (outside of making nessecary graphics) to support both styles, so if preferences are mixed that's probably what'll happen.

One is pretty much what you're used to from L1 / NeoLemmix 1. The other is a bit less wordy and more imagey. :)

Just to be clear; this is about the overall visual style of the display, not about the exact information contained on it. :)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 04:53:10 AM by namida »
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Offline GigaLem

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Re: 2.00 Customizable skill panel
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2015, 04:54:34 AM »
ooh im liking this

Offline Simon

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Re: 2.00 Customizable skill panel
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2015, 10:42:35 AM »
Images tend to be faster to process mentally. Letters look like numbers on first sight, having no letters makes the numbers stand out quicker as the relevant information.

-- Simon

Offline ccexplore

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Re: 2.00 Customizable skill panel
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2015, 09:44:59 PM »
You know what they say, a picture is worth 1000 words. ;P  Or in this case, 3 letters apparently (9 letters total over 3 icons).

In fact, I'm seeing some games taking this to the extreme direction of practically no words whatsoever used in their game's UI aside from title and credits.  IIRC Angry Birds is a good example of this.  Everything are just icons or movie clips (eg. cutscenes, demonstration of how to use various bird types as they are first introduced in a level, etc.).  It is definitely a stylistic decision there as well, though there are also nice side benefits such as not having to pay translators to translate text for different languages for example.

Offline mobius

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Re: 2.00 Customizable skill panel
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2015, 12:58:17 AM »
I really like the icons verses the words too, for reasons mentioned. Also I think it adds something nice to the menu bar.

For the requirement section I would have: "SAVE: 49/50" or "SAVE: 98%/50"
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 01:04:27 AM by möbius »
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Offline namida

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Re: 2.00 Customizable skill panel
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2015, 11:46:54 AM »
Quote
"SAVE: 49/50" or "SAVE: 98%/50"

This is most likely how it'll work.

One idea I'm thinking of (with either words or icons):

OUT: <number currently active> / <number of lemmings not lost>
IN: <number currently saved> / <number required>


In other words, if a level has 50 lemmings and 20 have spawned, OUT would display 20 / 50. If one lemming then died, it'd display 19 / 49 (as one lemming has been lost). The IN is pretty much exactly as you suggested. :)
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Offline mobius

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Re: 2.00 Customizable skill panel
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2015, 03:03:06 PM »
Quote
"SAVE: 49/50" or "SAVE: 98%/50"

This is most likely how it'll work.

One idea I'm thinking of (with either words or icons):

OUT: <number currently active> / <number of lemmings not lost>
IN: <number currently saved> / <number required>

In other words, if a level has 50 lemmings and 20 have spawned, OUT would display 20 / 50. If one lemming then died, it'd display 19 / 49 (as one lemming has been lost). The IN is pretty much exactly as you suggested. :)

that's a really good idea.
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Offline namida

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Re: 2.00 Customizable skill panel
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2015, 08:44:19 PM »
Alright, so it seems the really strongly-desired options here are L1-style whiting out of the skill count (instead of displaying a zero), customizing extra buttons, and customizing the size / existance of minimap.

Always displaying all 16 skills is also somewhat popular; there's no technical reason this can't be done, though it might be a bit hard to distinguish the icons at low zooms (especially 320x200, where each skill's panel would be 8x12 in size). However, at the same time it's probably unlikely that such low zooms would be used (and those using them could always just not use it together with the "display all 16 skills" option; and if display-all-16 were to be made the standard - perhaps so a level can use more than 8 types of skills - then I'd make a point of redesigning the panel graphics to suit that).

Coloring the skill count when it gets low doesn't have a lot of interest, but it has specifically been requested, and probably wouldn't be much hassle to implement.

Changing the order of skills similarly has low interest. This one would be a fair bit more work to do, so if there really isn't that much interest, I probably won't implement this one.

Changing the arrangement (ie: whether the info text appears above the skill panels, or vice versa) doesn't seem to have any interest at all, so I guess it's safe to say there's no need to do that. But perhaps the next thing to discuss is what customization options there should be for the infotext region itself; this is one of the few things that already has a significant number of customization options even in NeoLemmix V1.xxn (eg. display percents or lemming counts? make the timer flash when low? etc).
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Offline namida

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Re: 2.00 Customizable skill panel
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2015, 03:23:40 AM »
Any further input here; especially regarding the poll question? This is important, because the result of this would also impact whether or not expansion could occur to allow more than 8 types of skill in a single level - this isn't so practical if support for only displaying 8 skills is retained (other than doing so in packs that only use the 8 traditional skills).
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