Author Topic: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)  (Read 6718 times)

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Offline IchoTolot

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Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« on: November 07, 2021, 09:44:01 PM »
All zips only need to be unzipped inside the main folder of your NeoLemmix Player!

NeoLemmix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7jv3hp83izx90p1/Contest_24.zip?dl=1

Music: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zzj959v2xe86mhk/Contest_24_Music.zip?dl=1

Rule 1 Levels

Armani's "Lemmings in a Rave" (V4)
IchoTolot's "Starstruck" (V2)
Kingshadow3's "OttoLicho's Sprudel Squires" (V4)
The Tomato Watcher's "And Now, the Incredible Shimmier!" (V2)
kaywhyn's "Shimmier Lab Rules" (V3)


Rule 2 Levels

Armani's "GOTTA SWIM FAST!" (V1)
IchoTolot's "Violent Changes" (V1)
Kingshadow3's "Silence in the Library" (V3)
Mantha16's "BoLEMian RhapsoLEMdy" (V1)
NieSch's "Aerial Antics" (V9)
The Tomato Watcher's "So Near Yet So Far..." (V4)
kaywhyn's "Guide to Clone Survival in the Jungle" (V10)


Rule 3 Levels

Armani's "Trial by Fire" (13R2 - Make a level with at least two intended solutions) (V1)
IchoTolot's "Alluring Shimmer" (10R2 - Make a Fun/Tame level) (V1)
Kingshadow3's "Revenge of the King" (19R2 - Make a level whose terrain spells your username) (V5)
tan x dx's "EMERGENCY EVACUATION" (22R3 - Make a level with at least one neutral and at least one zombie (V7)
The Tomato Watcher's "What Goes Up..." (15R2 - Make a minimal-size level with at most 10 lemmings) (V1)
kaywhyn's "Not the Annoying Gap in the Floor Again!" (11R3 - Make a level with no constructive skills) (V3)


You can check the rules details again here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5761.0

Playing Phase will be closed on 12th of December!
Updates will close on 9th of December!


Note: This topic is for posting your comments, replays, etc for the levels. If you wish to post an update to your level, or enter a late submission, please do so in the Updates Topic instead.

Link to update topic
« Last Edit: December 04, 2021, 12:09:55 AM by IchoTolot »

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2021, 11:07:59 PM »
Already tackled through The Tomato Watcher's Rule 1 "And Now, the Incredible Shimmier!". This could be a backroute as I have a left over shimmier.

EDIT: Solved The Tomato Watcher's "So Near Yet So Far...". Got a basher left over so likely a backroute.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2021, 11:36:36 PM by Kingshadow3 »

Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2021, 12:04:53 AM »
The first one is indeed a backroute, but I know how to enforce the intended solution, so I'll get right on that.

The second one is intended. The extra basher is there as an anti-frustration measure in case the spacing of the lemmings isn't kind to you. It also makes the skill counts match. ;)

Offline mobius

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2021, 01:05:42 AM »
I also solved And Now, the Incredible Shimmier but with a bomber left over. Looks simple at first but it a bit tricky though I suspect this is backroute.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2021, 01:09:30 AM »
Not what I intended but a nice solution nonetheless! :D It's valid enough for me.

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2021, 11:26:46 AM »
"And Now, the Incredible Shimmier" V2 cleared. This time all skills are used.

Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2021, 03:04:21 PM »
Nice work, Kingshadow! :thumbsup:

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2021, 03:12:28 PM »
I solved rule 1 levels 8-) Both have some leftover skills but I think I found the main trick at least ???
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2021, 04:11:06 PM »
also solved rule 2 levels 8-)

Save Me Once More (click to show/hide)
Violent Change (click to show/hide)
boLEMmian RhapsoLEMdy (click to show/hide)
Aerial Antics (click to show/hide)
So Near Yet So Far (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2021, 04:38:43 PM »
I posted an update for the packwith 3 more entries from kaywhyn! :)

To Armani's replays:

Quote
I solved rule 1 levels 8-) Both have some leftover skills but I think I found the main trick at least

That's partly a backroute and partly an improvement I want to include. ;) It's not very far off though!

I posted + included an update in the pack. :)

Your solution to my R2 is 100% intended! Well done! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2021, 04:45:15 PM »
Aerial Antics (click to show/hide)

Well done! 95% intended but I made some small changes for V2.
My second level pack: Long Live Lemmings!
My first level pack: Yippee! More Lemmings

Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2021, 05:17:22 PM »
Quote from: Armani
I solved rule 1 levels 8-) Both have some leftover skills but I think I found the main trick at least ???

Your solution of my Rule 1 is, like mobius's, not what I intended, but it's perfectly acceptable. :)

Quote from: Armani
So Near Yet So Far (click to show/hide)

Your solution of my Rule 2 however... That's really bad. :forehead: I'm gonna have to think long and hard about what to do about that. :(

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2021, 08:33:06 PM »
Solved The Tomato Watcher's "What Goes Up..." (Rule 3). This seems like the intended solution.

EDIT: Solved kaywhyn's "Shimmier Lab Rules". If this is the intended solution, it's a great one! :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 12:31:15 AM by Kingshadow3 »

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2021, 05:24:15 AM »
@Kingshadow3: Nope, not intended for my R1. It completely misses the tricks I intended! :XD: Part of it was my error, as I didn't check to see if I placed the terrain carefully enough. So, for V2 shifted some of the terrain, as well as added some terrain, and added two masher traps (before, I did a laser trap instead, but I quickly realized a way one could bypass it, and so I reuploaded the correct V2). As a result of the added traps, I needed to provide another shimmier. Let's see if this stops your backrouting now on my R1! :P

For everyone else, I uploaded V2 of my R2, as I realized some horrible backroutes earlier tonight. I don't have any solutions from anyone for it yet, but I did some preemptive fixes in it by more of my testing. I don't know if it'll be enough, but we'll see.

I'm amazed at how fast some solutions came in within the first few hours of the playing phase opening up! :laugh: I will likely start going through the levels of this contest within a week or so. I will have Thursday and Friday off work, so I will have more time to play through the levels then. 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2021, 11:41:29 AM »
Solved kaywhyn's "Shimmier Lab Rules" V2. This one looks more intended but it also could still be a backroute...

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2021, 12:40:15 PM »
Solved kaywhyn's "Shimmier Lab Rules" V2. This one looks more intended but it also could still be a backroute...

100% intended! Nice job! :thumbsup: Thanks for resolving and letting me know if my R1 is now properly patched up :) Also, thank you for the compliments on the V1 of this level. What do you think now, still a fine level? I think this is a first for me in a contest in that I have a level backroute proof after only two versions :laugh: Of course, there's a possibility that it still can be backrouted, but I don't think it's likely here anymore.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2021, 12:52:35 PM »
Solved kaywhyn's "Shimmier Lab Rules" V2. This one looks more intended but it also could still be a backroute...

100% intended! Nice job! :thumbsup: Thanks for resolving and letting me know if my R1 is now properly patched up :) Also, thank you for the compliments on the V1 of this level. What do you think now, still a fine level? I think this is a first for me in a contest in that I have a level backroute proof after only two versions :laugh: Of course, there's a possibility that it still can be backrouted, but I don't think it's likely here anymore.

It's still a great one. Great work!! :thumbsup:

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2021, 03:23:17 PM »
solved rule3 levels 8-)
 
Alluring Shimmer (click to show/hide)
EMERGENCY EVACUATION (click to show/hide)
What Goes Up... (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2021, 04:35:03 PM »
and resolved updated levels(+new levels)

Starstruck (click to show/hide)
Shimmier Lab Rules (click to show/hide)
Save Ne Once More (click to show/hide)
Aerial Antics (click to show/hide)
So Near Yet So Far (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2021, 05:27:24 PM »
@Armani Oof, that's a backroute. I think this can be resolved with some skill changes. I'll upload shortly.

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2021, 05:38:54 PM »
Aerial Antics (click to show/hide)

You... clever person! But it was easy to fix. ;)
My second level pack: Long Live Lemmings!
My first level pack: Yippee! More Lemmings

Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2021, 06:03:41 PM »
@Armani I suppose I did, but I messed up in the worst possible way.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2021, 06:30:41 PM »
@Armani

This is now intended for my R1! :thumbsup: Great job! :thumbsup:

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2021, 06:53:59 PM »
@armani

Not quite intended for my Rule 2 level even though you used all the skills, so I

1) added terrain
2) added traps
3) added buttons
4) added steel

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2021, 08:34:11 PM »
I think it’s a good reminder to paste this from the update topic:
Quote
Please follow these rules for updates:
1. When posting a new updated version of a level, remove any old updated versions of that level --> Have all your recent updates stored in 1 post! I will delete such old posts eventually if the author doesn't; so don't store any important information in them.
2. Make a new post for a new update; do not edit your most recent post. You may, however, post updates to multiple entries (if you have more than one) in the same post.

As already I didn’t expect and am seeing quite a mess, please remember to only make one post and to delete older posts and not have multiple posts. Otherwise it will get quite messy and chaotic finding the most recent versions of your levels, as they can easily get lost in the mix this way! Icho will eventually delete such posts, but please take the time and responsibility to delete your own posts yourself by observing 1 and 2 quoted above ( though one user has already corrected this, so thank you for that :))

@armani I will address your solutions to my R2 and R3 later  on, as I’m not at a computer atm.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2021, 04:55:42 AM »
@Armani Ok, I finally got a chance to look at your solutions to all three of my contest entries, and here is my feedback:

R1 - 100% intended! :thumbsup: I'm glad you also liked this level, and honestly I kind of feel proud of this one too, probably slightly a bit more than my Bubble Trouble R1 level from LDC #22, if only because it needed more patches than this one :laugh: Even then, it was apparently a very well-received level for my very first attempt at level making, although to be fair it might had simply been due to the grouping my level was in. It was the second most popular R1 level, after rtw's "Warmth," falling short by just 1 vote in the rule voteoff :laugh:

Thanks for the compliments on my visual design! :thumbsup: Honestly, I'm still terrible at art, and I don't think it's that good at all in this level, but you thinking otherwise and reading this from you here really made my day :) So, I guess I am in a way getting better with the visuals, but it can still use more work, as there's definitely room for improvement.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

R2 - This is a bad backroute. I've uploaded a V3 that added steel, added a vine trap, and made the cloners pickups. I don't know if this will be enough to enforce the intended solution yet, but it should hopefully at least eliminate the big ones. Not to mention that my head was kind of hurting a lot thinking about if there's still the possibility of the level being backrouted, but well, I shall see when I get more solutions to this level from this community :laugh: I do have some other fixes in mind in case it does get backrouted again, but I'll wait for some solutions first. I have to suspect that my R2 will be the hardest one to both force the intended solution, as well as the hardest to find :P

edit: reuploaded V3, as I ended up shifting around some pickups some more.

R3 - The title here is a reference to Insane Steve's level "The Annoying 1-Pixel Gap," because if you were provided even 1 builder it would already be a solve. Therefore, it's a no builders level. However, I went much further than that here with one of my own no builders level. This would also be the very first such level from me :P And yes, you are correct that I'm a huge fan of these levels.

As you might had guessed, this level is open-ended, which would make this the very first level of mine in which I don't have any specific intended solution in mind. So, I will accept nearly any solution to this level. However,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So, for V2 I shifted and added some terrain. The replay solution I have needed some minor tweaks to work again, but while doing so, I was thinking of maybe reducing the skillset, as it seems that I was able to save a lot of skills. However, I will leave the skillset alone for the time being, as I will change it if I am getting a lot of solutions that are saving too many skills, meaning there's a bit too much degrees of freedom.

Thanks again for playing my levels and the replays, as well as the compliments on my R1! :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 06:24:07 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2021, 04:09:46 PM »
more replays. 8-)
Save Me Once More (click to show/hide)
Aerial Antics (click to show/hide)
EMERGENCY EVACUATION (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2021, 05:01:49 PM »
@Armani

There was a minisule thing you did different but your solution now is perfectly acceptable.

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2021, 05:06:59 PM »
Aerial Antics (click to show/hide)

First replay: clever backroutes again! I fixed this in V5.
Second replay: 100% intended. :)

Regarding your R3 level Armani: I just love the way you made this a "two intended solutions"-level. Creativity at its finest. :thumbsup:
My second level pack: Long Live Lemmings!
My first level pack: Yippee! More Lemmings

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2021, 09:48:38 PM »
@Armani Still a backroute! I've amended my post in the other thread.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2021, 11:25:50 AM »
@Armani

R2 - Definitely closer than the previous solution but still a backroute as you correctly guessed. It still avoided some elements that I wanted to enforce, so for V4 I added OWAs, moved some terrain near the exit, as well as added some in that area, moved a button, and -1 blocker and +1 basher. This might even force the player better in the correct direction of the solution, but let's see. In a way, I'm not confident that the intended solution is completely forced now, but even if it isn't my hope is that at least it's still yet closer than all previous solutions you sent me :P

R3 - I almost wanted to say your solution is acceptable, but for V3 I decided to add just slightly more terrain on either side of the exit, and as a result I removed the 10 tons traps on either side of it. It's really just to force players to use more skills. Also, thanks for the feedback on the skillset, and as a result I took your suggestion and reduced the skillset to 4-of-everything. It should be more challenging this way now while still being open-ended, just more restrictive and not allowing too much degrees of freedom. Of course, I made sure the level's still possible with the new reduced skillset, and it is, as I have a new replay proof, since I needed to tweak my previous one a bit due to the changes I made. Heck, V2 and earlier might even be possible with 3-of-everything, but I haven't tried, and I don't want it to be super tight, and so I'll just settle with the 4-of-everything skillset.

In any case, your solution is way more efficient than mine, and if I accept yours for V3, then I'll just say any other future solutions from everyone else at this point is acceptable for me.

Thanks again for resolving my levels and helping me to improve them! :) I can tell you're enjoying them just as much as the other entries in this contest. Yes, I might not have quite reached Icho, Nepster, or Armani difficulty in my levels, but I'm slowly getting there... I think :laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2021, 05:20:03 AM »
resolved updated levels.
EMERGECY EVACUATION (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2021, 09:19:21 AM »
@Armani

R2 - Yup, still not intended, and this one seemed to have gotten much further than the previous solutions. For V5, I added some more terrain, shifted some terrain above the exit, shifted the exit and the two grass vine traps near it, added some vine traps, and moved the 4 cloner pickups to a different location. I really had to think long and hard on how to fix it up. I have to suspect that the level has become much harder as a result, but at the same time it might even force or at least lead more in the correction direction of the intended solution :P

R3 - Although your new solution seems somewhat more efficient than your previous one, I will say it's now acceptable for my liking. For maybe some others, they might not be as efficient in the skill usages, but as I mentioned previously I don't want the skillset to be even tighter than the new modified skillset in V3. Even with the skillset, the level is still open-ended while not allowing as much degrees of freedom that the 5-of-everything skillset did. At the same time, I haven't checked to see if the level is possible with 3-of-everything, but even if it is I don't want the skillset to be too tight. 4-of-everything feels just perfect per your feedback ;)

Thus, only my R2 needs resolving on your end :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2021, 01:18:06 PM »
@Armani Definitely all backroutes :P Check the other thread for an update!

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2021, 07:39:44 AM »
I've started an LP of some of these contest levels, and I was able to solve all the R1's, although one needed a second video. Here are my replays for the R1 levels, minus the replay for Icho's level and mine, as I had the honor of pre-testing his levels once again. I will attach solutions to Icho's levels and to all of my levels later on once I deem solutions to each of them acceptable.

I for sure backrouted Armani's level, and possibly KingShadow3's as well, although perhaps it's still acceptable despite the leftover skill? The Tomato Watcher's R1 should be intended.

LP Video Links:

Rule 1 Part 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5_EEFFxTAs

Rule 1 Part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9eFf7xJTmw


Armani's Lemmings in a Rave V1 (click to show/hide)

KingShadow3's OttoLicho's Sprudel Squires V1:

Difficult one but quite a nice one! I really like what you did with the title, where the first word is an anagram of IchoTolot. So, I'm wondering if this level is a tribute to one of his levels from the United pack.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Tomato Watcher's And Now, The Incredible Shimmier V2:

Nice level. Easiest R1 level IMO.


I will post the rest of my replays and LP videos once I get all the other levels solved. So far, I've had an attempt at two R2 levels and wasn't able to solve either one within the time I spent recording, so it looks like the R2's will need an extra solving session in general.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2021, 01:33:14 PM »
Resolved updated 2 levels 8-) : Guide to Clone Survival in the Jungle / EMERGENCY EVACUATION

I attached two replays for both respectively. Unfortunately all 4 seem to be backroutes.
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2021, 02:28:29 PM »
@Armani Those are both backroutes, but you're getting very close! :thumbsup:

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2021, 08:13:52 PM »
@kaywhyn
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, your solution is a backroute Armani didn't find. I've uploaded my V2 in the update topic.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2021, 09:46:01 PM »
@Armani

Ah, this is starting to feel like LDC #22 all over again, where you kept backrouting my R3, but this time it's for my R2 :( Both of your solutions are backroutes, although your second solution is closer than your first one in many ways, but overall there's still some things either solutions miss. In particular, there are 3 tricks that I haven't seen in any of your solutions that you keep avoiding! I think I know how KingShadow3 feels now with your uncanny ability to practically backroute anything any of us throw at you :devil: And I thought I was good at backrouting :crylaugh:

For V6, more shifting of terrain and more terrain added, and added another grass vine trap. For this, I pretty much took each of your solutions one at a time and tried to block out each one. However, your first solution is, once again, due to a terrain misplacement error on my part, as well as how I keep forgetting to test about terrain being passable or not without any additional skills needed. I think this will finally be enough, but let's see.

@KingShadow3

Ah, good to know! :) Backroute, huh? I'm guessing I'm not too far off. 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2021, 03:02:56 PM »
Some more replays to Guide to Clone Survival in the Jungle / EMERGENCY EVACUATION

The two solutions to EMERGENCY EVACUATION are almost unchanged from yesterday, basically same but with better timings.
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2021, 03:40:42 PM »
@Armani More backroutes, but I think the latest changes might force your hand! :evil:

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2021, 07:00:23 AM »
@Armani

All three solutions to my R2 are bad backroutes in some way :XD: However, I am happy to see that another one of my tricks I intended has been used or at least a very close form of it in the solutions. However, there's still two others that aren't being used. For V7, I added another button and a vine grass trap which should definitely 100% enforce it now (never thought it would be so hard to enforce here!), and as a result it might even completely enforce the other trick I intended in another part of the level as well, added some OWAs, and some more terrain. Unfortunately, I think these fixes have resulted in more precision in the intended solution than I originally wanted, but well, sometimes that's the way it is :P Once again, I have to suspect that all these changes have clearly made this one one of my hardest levels in this contest :laugh:

Thank you so much for your patience and persistence in resolving each new version of my R2, even if I've been slowly getting flustered in trying to think of fixes to implement, as I'm definitely starting to see that sometimes it's just as much work to backroute fix than it is to solve the levels. Even then, I'm still more of a level solver than a level maker ;P   
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2021, 05:54:25 AM »
Some more replays to Guide to Clone Survival in the Jungle / EMERGENCY EVACUATION

EMERGENCY EVACUATION (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2021, 07:07:29 AM »
@Armani

Your second solution is the closest to the intended solution that I've gotten from you thus far, but unfortunately still a backroute :( For V8, I removed and shifted some terrain, as well as extended some OWAs and added up OWAs close to it. I'm really praying that this is hopefully the last time I need to update this level, but I'm not confident about that.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think you're right about it being harder and more work to backroute proof a very difficult level. As strange as it might sound, sometimes one can spend far longer fixing up a level than the time spent solving it. In the worst case scenario, it's not possible to enforce the intended solution and hence it's either discard and uses the backrouted part in the solution, accept the alternative, or something else. I think I've now reached the same number of patches for my R2 as my R3 from LDC #22 :crylaugh:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2021, 06:05:22 PM »
@Armani Regarding your second solution:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2021, 04:38:18 AM »
resolved Clone Survival in the Jungle / EMERGENCY EVACUATION
I know my solution to EMERGENCY EVACUATION is intended and also think my solution to Clone Survival in the Jungle is now very close to intended.
Clone Survival in the Jungle (click to show/hide)
EMERGENCY EVACUATION (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2021, 05:58:55 AM »
resolved Clone Survival in the Jungle
...my solution to Clone Survival in the Jungle is now very close to intended.
Clone Survival in the Jungle (click to show/hide)

You are correct with the first two tricks, not so with the third one. I almost wanted to accept this solution as an alternative, as it simply uses a few skills in different locations from the intended, but as it's already quite precise, I would like to reduce it for players wherever I can help it. I wanted to avoid doing so for a long time, but alas I caved and went with it. The only changes made with V9 are more pickups. From what you described, it sounds like this level's still really hard despite the presence of a few pickups. So, I think you're in agreement that my R2 is my hardest level out of my other two entries :P   
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2021, 11:17:56 AM »
resolved Clone Survival in the Jungle.
I invested one more basher so the timing things are not needed anymore.
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2021, 05:49:44 AM »
@Armani

This would had been an acceptable solution for me, but as there is one part in the spoiler that's not supposed to happen, as well as another part that isn't quite intended, let's try one more time with V10, where I made the blockers pickups and two of the bashers pickups.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2021, 06:54:38 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2021, 11:09:01 AM »
Solved all the R2 levels. Replays attached. Also all links to my LP of the R2 levels

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylt1Bzjse2M

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBim9WFufYM

Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpXzyO1UVC8

Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGDcOf6o4YI

Part 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFinZKRSDY8

Part 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hazpiJRFKjk

Part 7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asuFDX9owzg

Part 8: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H69pPKn8q9I


In general, the R2 levels were quite tough. At the same time, finally figuring them out was quite satisfying. In particular I must say KingShadow3's R2 was super satisfying to figure out.

Armani's GOTTA SWIM FAST R2V1 (click to show/hide)

eric's Save Me Once More R2V4 (click to show/hide)



Niesch's Aerial Antics R2V5 (click to show/hide)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2021, 11:41:51 AM »

I regret to say that there is a backroute in your solution. :XD:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've uploaded my V2.


Offline ericderkovits

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2021, 07:13:39 PM »
Uploaded V5 of my Rule 2 level which more steel is added to prevent the  bad backroute found by kaywhyn.

Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2021, 08:21:04 PM »

Minor backroute there, just updated my level to version 4 to address it.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2021, 03:27:54 AM »
resolved Clone Survival in the Jungle.
This might be it :laugh: 95% sure
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2021, 04:00:20 AM »
@Armani

Finally! This is 100% intended. Great job :thumbsup:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2021, 07:54:58 AM »
Finally solved all the R3 levels and hence the entire contest pack. Here are my replays. I have also attached the solutions to my levels just so I don't forget to do so later on in case anyone is interested in the intended solutions to them, with the exception of my R3, which is an open-ended level and hence I don't have any specific solution in mind. Or, you can also watch Part 5 linked below, as I show off the solutions to my levels, along with some possibly interesting facts/explanations which may or may not be of interest to you :laugh:

Also links to all my LP videos of the Rule 3 levels:

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uteN7jD3YW4

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AidkniIhmtE

Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxm900TuNVA

Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-PeWc0R9Rc

Part 5 and Solutions to my Contest Levels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BrAJdX4Psk


These levels were also challenging, although maybe not as much as the R2 ones, which I felt were the hardest, possibly including my own, but I still feel it isn't as hard as all the other R2's.

Armani's Trial By Fire V1 (click to show/hide)


tan x's EMERGENCY EVACUATION (click to show/hide)


All rightie, I think I will return in about a week to resolve updated levels where my solution is a backroute. I will be very busy in the upcoming week due to the Thanksgiving holiday and hence there won't be as much activity from me during that time, particularly since my brother will be in town and I'll be busy spending time with him that I otherwise won't be able to after this holiday is over. I need a break from these contest levels, anyway. These are all challenging but in a good way! :thumbsup:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2021, 09:18:17 AM »
Close enough ;)

There're some minor differences between your solution and mine but that's fine. I will attach my first solution to the level rather than explaining the differences one by one.

Yeah I agree that the music to my rule3 level is quite loud. I'm the kind of person who listening to music at high volume while studying, drawing, taking shower, literally anytime. Well I watched part of your video and I figure that the loud music can be annoying to LPers and viewers. :( Probably I've got to pick the music more carefully next time.
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2021, 09:27:31 AM »
Oh wow, nice solution there with the skillset I collected :P Also, I forgot to mention it, but in Part 5 after I showed off my solution to my R3, I want to let you know that I also show off your solution to it, as I really love your solution in how extremely efficient it is in terms of the amount of skills you were able to save :thumbsup:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2021, 03:48:26 PM »
@kaywhyn A correct solution! Well done! :thumbsup: I enjoyed watching your videos. It's always very entertaining to see you explain your thought process. :)

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2021, 07:16:06 AM »
@kaywhyn A correct solution! Well done! :thumbsup: I enjoyed watching your videos. It's always very entertaining to see you explain your thought process. :)

Hi tan x, thanks so much for letting me know that my solution to your R3 is intended! As usual, I'm very happy to hear that you've been enjoying watching me solve levels and hearing my thoughts on how I go about doing it in real time on camera :thumbsup: I hope that you've enjoyed hearing insights on my own contest levels in the latest LP video as well, even if I kept going off on tangents :laugh: As you might have gathered, I'm still more of a level solver than a level maker :P However, I have not ruled out the possibility of a future level pack of my own ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2021, 03:47:57 PM »
Sadly, I have to disqualify a level due to violation of rule 1c (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2246.0):

Eric Derkovits's "Save Me Once More"


I was made aware that said level had a public prior release in "Angry Lemmings" as "Mayhem 29": https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4965.msg90037#msg90037

There were some changes: The decorations changed, buttons, traps and extra steel were introduced, but it shares the exact same skillset and general layout and apart from the decoration changes the changes fell more like backroute fixes.

As a result:

I will leave the level inside the contest pack, but it won't be accounted for in the voting.

Sorry for only catching this only now and not before the start of the playing phase, but sadly I cannot know + remember every single level in every pack release.

Thanks to the person who made me aware of this and sorry for the inconveniance.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2021, 05:22:36 PM »
Due to a personal request I also removed the level from the pack now.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2021, 03:28:34 PM »
As things seem to slow down a bit, I will try and record my playthrough of the contest levels this weekend. :)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #63 on: November 28, 2021, 04:29:13 PM »
Alright here is my playthrough of all contest levels. :)

Videos will be released in about 1 hr 30 min (6 pm UTC).

Rule 1: https://youtu.be/CuKf_YHQyZo

Rule 2 Part 1: https://youtu.be/h8_73xvOwUo

Rule 2 Part 2: https://youtu.be/7dLYZqJxiQs

Rule 3 Part 1: https://youtu.be/qgJAjiISFhM

Rule 3 Part 2: https://youtu.be/bVNBYRtit2o

Icho's Own Levels: https://youtu.be/D_7IY72GoC0

Replays are also attached! :)

One remark regarding KingShadows R2 level (the library one):

It seems the level unintentionally uses a currently bugged slider mechanic. This will be patched out with the next big NL release.

It revolves around a slider not turning around after an attempted slide at the edge of a builder, because the gap in which he should go into is quite small and right above the ground.

See the following topic for details: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5826.0

I also highlighted and explained in the video how to easily fix this by extending/moving a few terrain pieces by a couple of pixels. So no big hassle fixing this. ;)

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2021, 07:00:46 PM »
I've patched my levels again, removing backroutes as well as fixing my R2 level so that it should (hopefully) work with future NL releases.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2021, 09:35:01 PM »
@Icho

R1: The first solution is indeed 100% intended, the second one is a backroute as you correctly guessed. For V3, I added some terrain to block off what you did at the end :P A confirmation that you can't do what you did in your backroute solution in this new version would be nice ;)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

R2: Your solution is 100% intended. Well done! :thumbsup: I am curious if you think this is a hard level despite the pickups, though ???

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

R3: Acceptable solution. As you might had guessed, this is an open-ended level, so I will accept almost any solution here,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The level title is a reference to Insane Steve's level "The Annoying 1-Pixel Gap," as if you are provided even 1 builder it will be an automatic solve by simply building over the gap due to how the entrance and exit are on opposite sides of the gap. Thus, it is a no builders level. The rule here was "make a level with no constructive skills, i.e, no builders, platformers, and stackers." I decided to make a level with a similar concept, just with about half the amount of each skill. Only thing is that it's not exactly on the floor, as it's in the air, and so the title doesn't quite fit here :laugh:

This was originally a 5-of-everything level, similar to your Temple of Escher level from a few contests ago, but based on feedback I got from Armani I decided to reduce it to a 4-of-everything. In this way, there isn't as much degrees of freedom that the former skillset allows while increasing the challenge somewhat. There are ways to save plenty of skills on this level.

Yes, I agree with you that the Dirt tileset is one of the harder ones to work with, especially in regards to making levels look nice with it. Even by my admittance I don't like the appearance, as it looks quite bare without all the grass, roots, and bones, for example. At the same time, I did hastily put the level together, and at some point I got annoyed with putting in the decoration, so that's on me there :P 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2021, 01:01:55 AM »
I did a bit of an impromptu stream and had a go at the Rule 1 Levels and was able to solve 4 of 5 so far. I enjoyed all the levels I played so great job :thumbsup:

Lemmings In a Rave - Armani
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Starstruck - Ichotolot (not solved yet)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

OttoLicho's Sprudel Squires - Kingshadow3
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And now, the Incredible Shimmier - The Tomato Watcher
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Shimmier Lab Rules - Kaywhyn
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2021, 01:23:50 AM »
@Apjjm Your solution is 100% intended. Nice job! :thumbsup: I'm happy to hear that you enjoyed this level. I only wish I had been able to see the entire stream live when you were playing it. If it's still available later, I'll likely take a look.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Regarding Icho's R1, yea, from my pre-testing of his levels, I found it to be a difficult one, but his hardest one is his R2. Again, I didn't see any of your attempt at his R1, so I can't see how far or how close you were in getting it solved. Nevertheless, the fact that you solved every R1 except for one is quite impressive. Very well done! :thumbsup: Looks like you haven't lost touch for one bit in your solving prowess :)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2021, 01:43:59 AM »
@ichotolot

R1-backroute / R2-100%intended :thumbsup: / R3-100%intended for Red solution and close enough for Green solution :thumbsup:

R1 : The laserer have to be used in more useful and creative way :( Hopefully this updated will be able to enforce that.
R2 : 100% intended ;) I watched the vids and it seems like you figure out the solution even before you actually tried the level! Impressive logical deduction as always! :thumbsup:
R3 : Red solution is perfectly intended. You used every skill in correct position and timing! Green solution is acceptable. Your solution is identical to kaywhyn's. My solution include clumping up the two lemmings to pass the trap and you managed to solve the level with out doing that hence you was able to save one more than required.



@Apjjm
Wow you successfully ignore the entire bottom part of the level :lem-mindblown:
No! I cannot allow that :XD:
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #69 on: November 29, 2021, 04:08:02 PM »
@Armani

I mentioned in the very first part that this time I took like 5-15 mins to take a look at and think about every level before recording. Not playing but just messure out the situation and plan a bit. This way there is less "downtime" in my playthrough. Especially with many hard levels it will otherwise turn out to be quite a lengthy drawn-out series. ;)

And especially in your R2 this has helped a lot!

Examples:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)



Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #70 on: November 29, 2021, 06:51:33 PM »
I've updated my rule 1 again.

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #71 on: November 30, 2021, 02:09:42 AM »
Had a play through the first 5 levels of rule 2, some first impressions:

Gotta Swim Fast - Armani (solved)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Violent Changes - IchoTolot (not solved)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Silence in the library - Kingshadow3 (not solved)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

BoLEMian RhapsoLEMdy - Mantha16 (solved)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Aerial Antics - NieSch (almost solved)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #72 on: November 30, 2021, 04:01:02 AM »
@Apjjm

That's a slight variation of the intended solution well done :thumbsup:
You can compare your solution to mine. See the attachment ;)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #73 on: November 30, 2021, 05:38:45 PM »
I got some resolves for all the updated levels here. ;)

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #74 on: November 30, 2021, 06:31:03 PM »
@IchoTolot

For Rule 1 and 2. The resolves are acceptable ones. My rule 2 has a few cases where skills can be used interchangeably.

For Rule 3, I've changed the shape of the Robot Clown heads so it shouldn't be possible to get over them anymore.

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #75 on: November 30, 2021, 07:12:09 PM »
Took a bit more time looking at the rule 1 levels and now have a/another solution for all of them.

Lemmings in a rave - armani
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Starstruck - Ichotolot
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

OttoLicho's Sprudel Squires - Kingshadow3
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #76 on: November 30, 2021, 07:29:53 PM »
@Apjjm

This is an acceptable alternative solution, well done! :thumbsup:

The only difference is:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #77 on: November 30, 2021, 08:35:36 PM »
@IchoTolot Great solution! Nicely done! :thumbsup:

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #78 on: November 30, 2021, 09:01:51 PM »
@Ichotolot @Apjjm

Intended 8-):thumbsup:
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #79 on: December 01, 2021, 01:42:52 AM »
A couple more replays for solves

So near yeat so far - The Tomato Watcher
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Violent Changes - Ichotolot
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #80 on: December 01, 2021, 09:59:23 PM »
@Apjjm

That is 100% intended! Well Done again! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Offline Apjjm

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #81 on: December 02, 2021, 01:52:15 AM »
Some more solves and thoughts from the last day or two...

Trial by fire - Armani
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Alluring Shimmer - IchoTolot
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Revenge of the king - Kingshadow3 (not solved yet)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Emergency Evacuation - tan x dx
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What goes up - The Tomato Watcher
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not the annoying gap in the floor again - Kaywhyn
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Aerial Antics - NieSch
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Guide to Clone Survival in the jungle - Kaywhyn (not solved yet - replay with 1 lemming short)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 02:00:33 AM by Apjjm »
My Level Packs: Quartet

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #82 on: December 02, 2021, 03:51:44 AM »
@Apjjm
Your solution is intended well done :thumbsup:

Quote
Out of interest, did you design this level with one route in mind initially and then adjust it to add the other, or did you plan both together?
Neither. ;P When I was creating the level map, I didn't have any specific solution in mind. After I designed the terrain, I developed the solutions based on that. Of course I added some traps, OWW, fire etc.. to enforce the solution afterward.
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #83 on: December 02, 2021, 04:34:34 AM »
@Apjjm

R2: You have most parts correct, but your overall solution is quite far from the intended one. There are some incorrect skill assignments which has caused you to run into a predicament with the save requirement. Armani has told me that this is clearly my hardest level in this contest collection, though I initially thought the solution would be way more obvious because of the pickups. Nope, he told me that it's not, so it seems that it's still very hard despite them. I know you can get my R2 solved eventually, though. I've been very impressed by how very well you been doing with these contest entries in the last few days :)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

R3: Acceptable solution. It's an open-ended level, as I mentioned before, and so I will accept almost any solution

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's also acceptable for me because of how you used almost all skills. There were some unnecessary skill usages in your solution and hence you could had saved way more skills, but well, if it works, it works! Nice job, though ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #84 on: December 02, 2021, 07:15:27 AM »
Some more solves and thoughts from the last day or two...

Aerial Antics - NieSch
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well done! Your solution is 100% intended.

I understand your criticism so I made a few changes in V9.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 02:36:43 PM by NieSch »
My second level pack: Long Live Lemmings!
My first level pack: Yippee! More Lemmings

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #85 on: December 02, 2021, 06:05:19 PM »
Here are my resolves. :)

Offline ∫tan x dx

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #86 on: December 02, 2021, 07:31:10 PM »
@Apjjm You got it! Nice solve! :thumbsup:

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #87 on: December 02, 2021, 07:33:21 PM »
I've updated my rule 3 again.

Offline NieSch

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My second level pack: Long Live Lemmings!
My first level pack: Yippee! More Lemmings

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #89 on: December 03, 2021, 03:27:50 PM »
I attached the resolve of Kingshadow3's R3 level. :)

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #90 on: December 03, 2021, 06:44:02 PM »
I attached the resolve of Kingshadow3's R3 level. :)

Despite using all skills. This is still a backroute as it skips a trick I am trying to enforce. I've updated my rule 3 to V5.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #91 on: December 04, 2021, 02:24:16 PM »
Another resolve. :)

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #92 on: December 04, 2021, 02:38:17 PM »
@IchoTolot This one is close enough to the intended solution to be acceptable.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #93 on: December 05, 2021, 08:51:52 PM »
I uploaded my playthrough of the updated levels on YouTube: https://youtu.be/r85SKhd_0ms

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #94 on: December 11, 2021, 11:06:04 AM »
Notice: Though there wasn't a new post announcing this recently, the update phase closed a few days ago, so I apologize if I backrouted any of the following levels and a fix is needed, as they can no longer be updated for this contest!

Finally back with some resolves. Resolved KingShadow3's R1 and R2, Niesch's R2, The Tomato Watcher's R2, Armani's R1, and I decided to find the solution for the red side for Armani's R3, as I didn't do so in my playthrough of the contest levels due to just finding the green solution at the time, which I'm told is close enough. My replays are attached. The only one I'm certain is a backroute is Niesch's level, and possibly The Tomato Watcher's R2 due to some skills left over, meaning the fixes probably made it worse, or possibly just means my solution just happens to be efficient. I've seen the intended solution to the former after I resolved the latest version of his level, though, and my solution can easily be blocked with some more OWAs at the unintended place where I did a lot of rapid fire skill assignments. I will say that the intended solution is quite impressive and hence I now understand why the level is called "Aerial Antics."

Armani's Lemmings in a Rave V4 (click to show/hide)




Niesch's Aerial Antics V9 (click to show/hide)



@Icho

I need more time to think about your R1 to resolve it. I'm not sure what Armani did, but I'm guessing that his solution involved some extreme precision, which I'm only making this connection due to how you upped the save requirement by 1 from all your previous iterations. I will report back hopefully later with a successful replay in the day. No hints, of course! ;)
« Last Edit: December 11, 2021, 11:22:40 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #95 on: December 11, 2021, 11:42:40 AM »
No problem kaywhyn. Impressive to see that you keep finding backroutes if you persevere long enough. 8-)
My second level pack: Long Live Lemmings!
My first level pack: Yippee! More Lemmings

Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #96 on: December 11, 2021, 08:09:43 PM »

I wouldn't call this a backroute; you didn't really skip anything, you just made it slightly harder for yourself. :P
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #97 on: December 12, 2021, 04:47:03 AM »
@kaywhyn

I think you already know, but
Both are 100 intended :thumbsup:
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #98 on: December 12, 2021, 06:54:18 AM »
Finally got Icho's R1 resolved. Also, videos of my solutions to the updated levels for each rule:

Rule 1: https://youtu.be/8TIq8bDGJKc

Rule 2: https://youtu.be/cZg_Tmb2CzU

Rule 3: https://youtu.be/t0JUSCoByUw


@Icho

Just wanted to let you know that I gave you credit and a shoutout in my R3 video at the very end in the outros. Thanks for being a great friend and your expertise/help in visuals of level designing! :)

 
Here, I brought a lot of very unnecessary pixel precision, and as you can imagine it was quite frustrating to pull off what I did here, with a lot of very good timing needed :laugh: The biggest difference from what I've seen with Armani's and Icho's intended solutions is where I contained the crowd (back to the pre-testing times we go here, Icho :P), as well as swapped the digger and basher placements.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


I've attached my entire replay collection for the contest, including my replays for all 3 of Icho's levels, and the solutions to my own contest levels. Again, at least one is not intended, Niesch's level, as I ended up resolving after the update phase ended. Also, there are intended solutions for my R1 and R2. My R3 is open-ended and hence I have no specific intended solution in mind, it's just a solution I found to it. For Armani's R3, there are two solutions, one is for the green side, the other is for the red side.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #99 on: December 12, 2021, 03:38:23 PM »
Let's just say at some point you need to stop saving the player from overly timing and precision heavy solutions and I think this point is reached now. ;)

I won't introduce a ton of overly ugly fixes just to prevent a overly complicated variation of the solution (even if the crowd is saved in another place) so I will let it stay.


The voting phase will begin soon when I get the level picture links and find some time to prepare the topic. :)