Author Topic: [Lemmings 2] Tribes of Steel - WIP Thread (12 tribes complete, needs testing)  (Read 4838 times)

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Offline Ste Woz Ere

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Re: [Lemmings 2] Tribes of Steel - WIP Thread (5 tribes complete)
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2021, 11:47:28 PM »
Just in time for Halloween, the scariest tribe arrives (at least in vanilla it is). I really enjoyed playing with this skill set, there's a lot can be done with it (except for the pole vault ofc, which can do precisely 2 things). Throw in some steam*, trampolines and one of my best level ideas and you have this:

* We all have nightmares of that silly opening level from vanilla, but nothing like that here. Instead, they are puzzles, obstacles or a means to gain height.

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Version 9.0 has been released
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Sports - tribe is now complete.

Highland 3 (McLem's Drunken Dream) - moved the diamond down so it can be roped into. (it should've been moved earlier)
Medieval 3 (Acrobatic Outlaw) - slightly lengthened the start area, +2 miners, -1 platformer, -1 stacker.
Beach 3 (Everybody Do the Flop!) - removed a test trapdoor that was preventing the level from being completed. (doh)

In addition, I've gone through all of the tribes and altered the release rates...as most levels were left at the default value.
Tribes of Steel - a whole new Lemmings 2 game! (120-level pack)
Currently a WIP - all tribes are complete, testing and feedback is welcome!

Offline kieranmillar

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Re: [Lemmings 2] Tribes of Steel - WIP Thread (5 tribes complete)
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2021, 12:01:36 AM »
And so we reach the halfway point...and not for the first time I have my doubts about the way it's progressing. I know my levels are somewhat bigger than QFK2's with more to do in each one, and that's kinda how I like them...but I also get the impression that sort of design isn't popular. My design philosophy is also different, favouring strong (often unusual) themes (along with the odd gimmick) and designing around those (unless I have a strong puzzle idea).

What do people think - should they be smaller? Fewer skills? Terrain favouring execution rather than theme? Or is it better to be a stark contrast to QFK2 but with more bits that could go wrong?

(sorry for rambling on, it's what goes on in a level designer's head sometimes. Doesn't help that the twister was in the first 2 tribes though...leading to a bad first impression on the execution side)
Apologies for vanishing suddenly and being away for a while. That just happens with me. I still plan to play through this all.

I don't think you should worry about whether or not this is similar to QFK2. I'm not a good judge regardless, but I always was worried that QFK2 was too focused on difficult puzzles where people would just get stuck a lot until they figure out the "trick", a level style that actually only crops up rarely in official Lemmings games. I feel there's definitely an audience for levels more your style, I enjoy them at least. What I've played so far is very good, don't be put off by my griping about the Twister, that's just the Twister being the Twister.

Offline Ste Woz Ere

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Re: [Lemmings 2] Tribes of Steel - WIP Thread (5 tribes complete)
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2021, 12:29:10 AM »
Three quarters down, one to go.  This was definitely my favourite tribe for the actual level design, as I love it's night-time city setting. Bit of an odd skill set (explosions aren't the easiest way to tunnel) and perhaps not enough use of "the combo", but that does mean I used all aspects of the tribe a bit more. (and I'm particularly pleased with some of the filler tricks)

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Version 10.0 has been released
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Shadow- tribe is now complete.
Tribes of Steel - a whole new Lemmings 2 game! (120-level pack)
Currently a WIP - all tribes are complete, testing and feedback is welcome!

Offline Ste Woz Ere

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Re: [Lemmings 2] Tribes of Steel - WIP Thread (10 tribes complete)
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2021, 12:28:13 AM »
Well, that was quick. I thought this tribe would take longer due to the awkward nature of the terrain, but it actually fitted together quite nicely (the tiling woes that I faced in Outdoor never really materialised here). The skillset isn't bad either - wings are ok when you get used to it (better than the other flying skills IMO), spears turned out more useful than I thought (despite not being able to chain them), and stacks are always handy.

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Version 11.0 has been released
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Cavelem - tribe is now complete.

Medieval 10 (The Siege of Lemcastle) - removed the immediate danger from the leftmost trapdoor. Also swapped them around so the one by the lake goes first. (these should allow you to get cracking on the exit section immediately)
Tribes of Steel - a whole new Lemmings 2 game! (120-level pack)
Currently a WIP - all tribes are complete, testing and feedback is welcome!

Offline geoo

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Re: [Lemmings 2] Tribes of Steel - WIP Thread (10 tribes complete)
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2021, 11:23:38 PM »
I went through Medieval, Classic and Egypt.

Videos are here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJNO01n86P6LXjn6NNxy1EYVWc9LtCYFu

I was positively surprised by Classic (I generally don't care for L2 classic), and Egypt is my favourite tribe so far.

Offline Ste Woz Ere

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Re: [Lemmings 2] Tribes of Steel - WIP Thread (3 tribes complete)
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2021, 12:36:01 AM »
Great to hear from you again, and some great feedback too - many fixes to make:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've currently got around a third of Space to go, so here's a interim update with all the fixes:

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Version 11.1 has been released
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Highland 1 (Base Camp) - re-set the correct size, so it isn't a garbled mess. (ouch)
Highland 10 (Ten Brown Barrels) - added 1 twister and removed 2 mortars, reverting the previous change. (alternative solutions will always be a part of these epic finales, and I was impressed with the one in the video)
Classic 6 (Chambers of Aquatia) - removed 1 builder and 1 digger.
Classic 7 (Stepping Up and Down) - extended a block to shorten the area just above the exit.
Classic 8 (Tricks & Traps) - added a block between the fire jets in the exit area.
Classic 9 (Split at the Hill) - added metal to the left block, moved metal up the right block, removed 5 builders.
Classic 10 (Random Lemming Pun) - removed 5 floaters and 2 miners, reverted the previous change to the middle trapdoor.
Medieval 2 (Finishing the Arc) - removed the small hill, added metal to the starting ledges.
Medieval 3 (Acrobatic Outlaw) - removed the mess from the last update (ugh), slightly altered the exit area, reduced stackers to 2 and miners to 1.
Medieval 4 (Hack & Slash) - added metal to the starting areas.
Medieval 6 (Dungeon & Dragon) - moved the forgotten trapdoor to the grass area just outside the dungeon.
Medieval 8 (Siege Engine Graveyard) - extended the middle trapdoor tunnel area, moved the catapult back.
Egyptian 2 (Stomp Like an Egyptian) - added metal to the base of the start pillars.
Egyptian 3 (Tomb of Ikea) - shortened the ceiling table.
Egyptian 8 (The Chambers of Cain) - reworked the gap between trapdoor and exit. (so it can't be cheesed)
Egyptian 9 (The Plunger's Tomb) - removed all sand pourers (so it can't be cheesed), slightly reworked some areas to compensate.
Tribes of Steel - a whole new Lemmings 2 game! (120-level pack)
Currently a WIP - all tribes are complete, testing and feedback is welcome!

Offline Ste Woz Ere

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Re: [Lemmings 2] Tribes of Steel - WIP Thread (10 tribes complete)
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2021, 10:57:06 PM »
And the missing third is done. This was always one of my favourite tribes, but the original game didn't really do it justice IMO. QFK2 righted that, and here's my attempt at doing the same.  Space glue was awesome...I know the builder combo is OP but it gave me a lot of ideas and it led to some great combos with other skills. Jetpacks are a bit awkward but I found them to be quite useful for little things as well as the odd bigger thing. (always with plenty of room and spares like with other hard-to-execute skills)

Anyhow, one more tribe to go and quite a fitting one for the time of year. (we even had snow last week)

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Version 12.0 has been released
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Space - tribe is now complete.

Egyptian 6 (Wade in the Water) - shortened the containment area for the right-side trapdoor. (it's not as deep now, which fixes a backroute). I also forgot to include this one in the last update. (doh)
Tribes of Steel - a whole new Lemmings 2 game! (120-level pack)
Currently a WIP - all tribes are complete, testing and feedback is welcome!

Offline Ste Woz Ere

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Re: [Lemmings 2] Tribes of Steel - WIP Thread (11 tribes complete)
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2021, 12:50:49 AM »
The winter solstice has recently passed, and as originally planned/hoped for, I have managed to complete the final tribe!
Like the previous two tribes, it came together really well with some neat skill combos and puzzles (despite losing a cool skier trick on the final level due to it causing weird graphical bugs and random crashes). Possibly not as hard as many of the other tribes, but I'm really happy with how it's turned out.

This won't be the final release, as they're bound to be full of backroutes and testing/feedback would be very welcome in order to get rid of them. I'm also planning a full video playthrough when the final release is ready.

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Version 13.0 has been released
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Polar - tribe is now complete.

All levels that weren't using their full size are now doing so, with extra scenery (L1-style).*

Classic 8 (Tricks & Traps) - replaced the newly-added block with metal. (just to ensure it can't be glitched)
Medieval 8 (Siege Engine Graveyard) - reworked the middle trapdoor again, removed a few skills and 1 min.
Shadow 9 (Mission: Impassable) - lengthened the thin shaft that the rock climber uses to reach the sewers.
Space 7 (JMC Mining Complex) - closed the mine shaft, added a few skills. (I realised that one bit of the puzzle could be bypassed, and I like this new solution better)

* Dunno how it got like this, it just kinda happened as I went along. As there was only a handful of early levels that were not using all the available room, I decided to bring those into line. I also like detailing stuff. None of the actual play areas are changed, and it's a nod to the original L1 too.
Tribes of Steel - a whole new Lemmings 2 game! (120-level pack)
Currently a WIP - all tribes are complete, testing and feedback is welcome!

Offline kieranmillar

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Congratulations on making it all the way to an entire 120 level pack. A huge achievement!

Offline Ste Woz Ere

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I've mostly been doing other stuff since the release, but I have had a look back at various levels that I wasn't entirely happy with (mainly in the tribes that haven't been playtested by others yet) and made some changes....also discovering a few bugs along the way.  So here's a new version with various improvements:

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Version 13.1 has been released
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Space 4 (Defying Gravity) and Space 5 (Orbital Bombardment) have swapped places.

Medieval 10 (The Siege of Lemcastle) - made some small changes around the middle of the level, to try and improve the flow a bit. Also added 2 builders and 2 platformers for flexibility. (using up every skill isn't a priority in this one)
Outdoor 7 (The Irrigation Pond) - re-added the 3rd trapdoor (there was originally 4 before release) to stop a backroute.
Outdoor 10 (The Plantshaft) - made the bottom left trapdoor safe, removed 1 roper. (wasn't needed and could ruin 1 puzzle)
Beach 9 (Beach Hut BBQ) - reworked the main puzzle in order to save it, also removing 10 sand pourers. The new version is much quicker to complete, so the time limit has been reduced. (it was way too high anyway)
Sports 6 (Dynamic Duo) - fixed the release rate to what it should be. (how this happened I have no clue. On one of the best levels too)
Sports 7 (The Gulf in Class) - moved the chain swingers to another level, as it was causing sprites to disappear. Also reworked the puzzle slightly, in order to remove dependence on an obscure trick that is discovered in the previous level.
Sports 8 (Switcheroo) - added a block to the right-side of the water, for the same reason as above.
Shadow 3 (Air Raid) - lowered the tower block slightly and reworked the underground section a bit, in order to save the final puzzle. (by making the builder+roper use consistent)
Shadow 4 (Filling Station) - reworked the main puzzle in order to save it. Removed all the bombers, plus 4 bazookas and 2 rock climbers.
Shadow 6 (Scraping the Sky) - improved the upward section a little, speeded up the release rate greatly.
Shadow 10 (Pockets of Resistance) - removed the water and 6 fillers.
Polar 5 (Eskimo Beat) - extended the water trough, added metal down to the 2-igloo platform. (backroute fix)
Tribes of Steel - a whole new Lemmings 2 game! (120-level pack)
Currently a WIP - all tribes are complete, testing and feedback is welcome!