Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] Inverse Lemmings (40 Levels) [Difficulty:Medium-Hard]  (Read 3202 times)

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Offline WillLem

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The original levels, upside down!


Inverse Lemmings is a small-ish remix pack featuring 40 levels from the original game with their maps inverted; they are in fact not only upside down, but also back-to-front as well.

As with all remix packs, I've done my best to only keep the levels which play well into the concept; thankfully, a lot of these have ended up presenting plenty of interesting challenges.

I've aimed for a "fewer possible solutions" approach this time around, meaning that the pack is generally a step up in difficulty from my usual output, but should still be more than do-able for the average player with a bit of effort, a free evening and a few beers (or whatever you fancy).

So go ahead and enjoy the classic levels as you've never seen them before (unless you've played with your laptop upside down...) :lemcat:

What's in the attachment:

:lemming: Level pack
:lemming: Full set of solution replays
:lemming: willlem_special style with custom tiles required for the majority of the levels
:lemming: Custom menu graphics
:lemming: Custom skill panel graphics
:lemming: Amiga Lemmings music

To install, simply unzip the folder directly to your NeoLemmix directory.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 07:10:27 AM by WillLem »

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Inverse Lemmings (40 Levels) [Difficulty:Medium-Hard]
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2021, 05:06:06 PM »
Awesome, WillLem! :thumbsup: I'm looking forward to LPing this pack sometime down the road and seeing how much this pack will whoop my behind :crylaugh: Oh yea, stumping "king kaywhyn." Semi-joking here, of course, but you never know ;) Thanks again for the very nice avatar
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Inverse Lemmings (40 Levels) [Difficulty:Medium-Hard]
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2021, 06:52:56 PM »
Awesome, WillLem! :thumbsup: I'm looking forward to LPing this pack sometime down the road and seeing how much this pack will whoop my behind :crylaugh: Oh yea, stumping "king kaywhyn." Semi-joking here, of course, but you never know ;) Thanks again for the very nice avatar

You're very welcome, it's my pleasure :) I hope the pack proves to be a significant enough challenge for you! 8-)

Offline WillLem

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A fix for Tricky 2 Lemming Sanctuary in Sight; the vertical pipe nearest the exit is now fully climbable (previously, an eraser tile was stopping lems from climbing all the way up).

OP also updated.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Inverse Lemmings (40 Levels) [Difficulty:Medium-Hard]
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2021, 10:06:39 PM »
Hi WillLem,

I have solved the pack. My replays are attached. I've also linked the LP: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJtnAJZoB4qB1pWttYdnocbm. Enjoy! :P

General Feedback

I like the concept of the pack where it's just select levels from the OL with the entire level upside down and back to front. I also like how this was a breather level pack, as I felt the pack was too easy for me. Because of that, I would have to say even with the hardest levels here, which admittedly weren't over the top hard, I felt the difficulty was a constant medium throughout. Possibly the highest it goes is the high end of the medium range, maybe borderline of medium/hard. However, I can see how this pack can still trip up less experienced players, and so perhaps the difficulty tag of Medium-Hard should be kept. Nevertheless, I appreciate a pack like this very much with easy levels for the most part. Yes, hard levels are my favorite type that I love playing and solving, but I like easy levels too, and really I love levels of all difficulties.

Fun Rank Feedback

Not very much to say here other than the levels here were too easy. You pretty much have way more than enough skills on all of these levels. I would say the only hard level in this rank was Fun 9 - Nightmare on Lem street, but even that is not very hard. I'm simply saying that the level relative to all the other Fun levels in the pack it's the hardest one. I love the 2-of-everything skillset, which makes it more akin to the Mayhem repeat "The Great Lemming Caper," as well as how there are zombies guarding and preventing a specific route to take. I guess one could had expected this level to be in the pack, as this is quite a well-liked level by most in this community. I think the main reason is due to how there's still multiple solutions despite the very restricted skillset.


Tricky Rank Difficulty

Somewhat harder levels here, but still nothing very hard. These levels essentially stayed around the Tricky difficulty just like the Tricky levels from the OL. Here, you still have a lot of skills available, but skillsets are somewhat tighter to an extent. Tricky 1 - Careless clicking costs lives is a nice level to start off the rank, although the quirk of the swimmers can be a bit annoying here. In particular, the swimmers seem quite prone to dying to the deadly ceiling here, despite there being terrain in the way! However, if I'm not mistaken, any extra pixels above the top border are ignored and hence explains why the swimmers can ascend, akin to stepping up a wall of 6 pixels or less. There also appears to be some kind of bug here, where in one part of my solution the swimmers went through terrain. That I don't understand at all! I wonder if that's a bug. Other than that, just really a huge
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


and hence it made it tedious for me, as I'm generally not a fan of levels where one has to repeatedly spam the same skill over and over, especially if it's in a very short amount of time. That's just me, though.

Tricky 2 - Lemming sanctuary in sight Too easy, although the hardest part, at least for me,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I say the hardest levels in this rank were Tricky 3 - Lemmings in the attic and Tricky 9 - I have a cunning plan. For the former, it's simply due to getting up to the exit, especially with a very limited amount of builders. However, I like the puzzle with the terrain on the far left with figuring out how to get through it. Nice job.

For the latter, the fact that it's a builderless level increases the difficulty significantly. Even then, this level didn't take me very long at all. Very nice solution.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I would say Tricky 7 - It's Lemmingentry Watson was a favorite of mine here. Very innovative and creative solution.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Tricky 10 - Rainbow Island is a great level to finish off the rank that is pretty much the same as Fun 10 in both being a 10-of-everything. However, this level's skillset is way more restricted, especially when you go for a save all. I originally was fine with losing 1, but then I changed my mind at the last minute and decided to save everyone. I released them too late in an attempt, so the other hard part is finishing on time.


Taxing Rank Feedback

Harder levels still, but nothing I couldn't manage once more. However, I must say your hardest levels of the pack were here. Indeed, I guess it's akin to the OL, where the jump in difficulty going from Tricky to Taxing is the greatest. Taxing 1 - Lend a helping hand is quite a nice one to start off the rank. I say the hardest part is simply getting everyone up to the exit, especially with a very limited skillset that happens to be a 3-of-everything.

Taxing 2 - Compression Method 1 I would consider to be the first hard level of the rank. However, the solution is very creative.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Honestly, I'm confused by the very low save requirement of Taxing 4 - Upside-Down World and Taxing 5 - Hunt the Nessy. It is possible to save far more than 1 on both. For the former, I'm wondering if that's an error. I like how the things that are upside down in the OL are now upside up and vice versa. For Taxing 5, I'm sure this will get people raging

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

However, I want to say it's no fault of WillLem's at all, as I think this is just simply the result of inverting the level. It might had very well been the case in the original version as well. Other than that, I must say this was a super tedious level to play through, as once again it's a huge

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then again, the original is a huge builderfest, and hence got to make the inverted level something similar, am I right? :laugh: At the same time, this level I must say is harder than the original, especially since your constructive skills are far more limited.

Taxing 6 - Mary Poppins' land I consider another hard level in the rank. You can only lose 1, and hence you need to figure out how to quickly save the splat hatch. Getting the crowd up at the very start is also very hard. Getting through the ceiling at the end is also hard, but once you do the rest is easy. Really nice level here!

Taxing 9 - Triple Trouble is another hard one, just like the original version, considering the very restricted 3-of-everything skillset. However, the hardest part is simply getting the ones trapped at the bottom left up again. I guess the RR was greatly lowered to compensate.

Finally, Taxing 10 - POOR WEE CREATURES the inverted version here seems much easier than the original. I'm certain I could had tweaked my solution slightly so that I didn't lose as many as I did. Here, the save requirement has been kept, so that made it quite easy.

For Taxing 8 - Take a running jump I like how only jumpers are given so that it makes the title more appropriate. Now we just need the runner from L2 :laugh: However, I think this has definitely been ruled out completely due to the complexity and the very fiddly solutions that can result. Oh well. In any case, this is once again a type of level that I'm not a fan of, spamming the same skill repeatedly so many times.


Mayhem Rank Feedback

Don't get me wrong, there are some hard levels here as well, but I felt they weren't as hard as some of the ones in the previous rank. Mayhem 1 - Steel Works is quite a hard level to start the rank despite the 10-of-everything skillset. It should be very obvious that the builders and platformers are very valuable here. I think it's fairly obvious where they need to go, but making very good use of them, especially the builders, is quite difficult. There's also a very hard part to do near the exit. It might be possible to save some of the constructive skills, but at least in my solution I used all 3 of the different ones.

For Mayhem 2 - The Crossroads I like the level concept here in order to minimize losses :thumbsup:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mayhem 4 - Pea Soup is somewhat difficult, although it's really just repeated

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Mayhem 5 - Stepping Stones can also be hard, but it's really all about managing the lemmings carefully so that no one drops to the bottom, as escape is completely impossible. Nice solution, though! ;)

Mayhem 6 - And then there were four... I like how the number of lemmings now matches the title as well in addition to the four trapdoors. The fact you have 44-of-everything in 4 skill types reminds me of "All the Sixes" from the OL, where you had 66-of-everything with all the classic 8 skills. Quite a nice level here, even if it's on the easy side.

Mayhem 8 - Going up... can be a hard one, although the hardest part is simply getting through the terrain near the exit. Once you manage to do so, the rest is easy. The other thing that adds to the challenge is the somewhat tight timer, but it's not a huge problem here.

Mayhem 9 - Mind the step The hardest part is the beginning so that no one gets into danger. It can be hard to stop the danger due to a somewhat small platform to work on. Once you manage to do so, the rest is easy. Then it's all about finding the correct path to take, making sure all blockers can be released, and finishing on time. This is similar to the penultimate level of the OL, where this one being the second-to-last one I consider harder than the next level, which is the last one of the pack.

Finally, Mayhem 10 - Save me is quite a nice one to finish off the pack. It's nowhere near the hardest of the pack and I think is easier than the previous one, akin to how the final level of the OL is easier than the penultimate. In the original, this level is considered by many to be the hardest, but not so in this pack. With only 1 lemming to manage, it's not a very stressful level at all, and with only movement skills (walkers, shimmiers, and jumpers), the route should be very obvious. Otherwise, excellent work with coming up with a creative solution like this one! :thumbsup: I absolutely enjoyed playing and solving this one, but especially with reasoning it out.


Overall, a decent pack that still offers some really good puzzles out of some from the OL. It was on the easy side for me, but that's not a problem. It's true that I love playing and solving hard levels, which are my favorite types, but I also like easy levels. As a matter of fact, I enjoy levels of all difficulties in this game. So, thank you WillLem for an easy pack to play! :thumbsup: Let's just say that I expected the challenges to be far greater than what I experienced when I was LPing the pack, up to the point that it would even stump people like me, "king kaywhyn." :laugh: Nevertheless, I still enjoyed the pack very much despite how there were some types of levels that I generally am not a fan of (assigning/spamming the same skill many times in a short amount of time, huge "skill fests" of a particular skill).

I will get to your other level packs at some point as well. It's just been a long time since I've last played a pack by you, so I decided to change that and play through Inverse Lemmings. Again, the pack concept of playing the entire level upside down is great and quite innovative, as it's fun to see these interesting twists on some select levels and seeing what solutions can result from them. You have quite the great mind there ;)

I'm thinking your Christmas pack will be next, in a few months or so. So, be on the lookout for when that happens, but in the meantime there's my LP of Inverse Lemmings that you can enjoy. Glad to see you're doing well yourself! Thank you for joining us for Jackbox a few days ago! :) 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Inverse Lemmings (40 Levels) [Difficulty:Medium-Hard]
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2021, 04:08:28 AM »
Thanks for the kind comments and feedback, kaywhyn! :thumbsup:

Since Hunt The Nessy gave you a lot of unnecessary trouble, I'll reply to that here. I originally spoiler tagged this, but tbh it's a novelty level really so it's worth just discussing it openly:

For Nessy, you're not actually supposed to bomb through everything. Just bombing at the start of each terrain section allows the swimmers to drop inside the terrain and bash through. Previous levels in the pack were supposed to demonstrate this well before this level arrived; the first swimmer level basically forces the player to realise that doing this is possible. Maybe I should've included Bashers in that particular level to consolidate this method - I realised from watching your LP that the player can easily get into the habit of thinking that ceiling swimmers always have to bomb through everything, when actually this isn't true at all :forehead:

A fix for this level would be to drastically reduce the number of Bombers so that those who don't care about maximising the saves won't get herringed by them. Then again, maybe those who don't want to save the maximum number of lems deserve the tedium of having to Bomb through everything haha ;P In seriousness, I believe there is a talisman encouraging the player to save all (or not use Bombers), so... it should be clear enough already that the level is solvable without spamming Bombers, even if the player doesn't care about trying to achieve the talisman solution.

The terrain isn't really meant to be hidden behind the water either, it's just supposed to be inside it, like islands. Sure, everything should be visible and clear without CPM, but it's reasonable to assume that the terrain will continue beneath the water in most cases.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Inverse Lemmings (40 Levels) [Difficulty:Medium-Hard]
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2021, 12:53:09 AM »
Thanks for the kind comments and feedback, kaywhyn! :thumbsup:

My pleasure. I definitely enjoyed it just for the fact that this was a quick one to plow through and not being endlessly stumped :P There were still a lot of interesting levels here, even if the pack concept itself is quite unique with the inversion :)

Quote
For Nessy, you're not actually supposed to bomb through everything. Just bombing at the start of each terrain section allows the swimmers to drop inside the terrain and bash through. Previous levels in the pack were supposed to demonstrate this well before this level arrived; the first swimmer level basically forces the player to realise that doing this is possible. Maybe I should've included Bashers in that particular level to consolidate this method - I realised from watching your LP that the player can easily get into the habit of thinking that ceiling swimmers always have to bomb through everything, when actually this isn't true at all :forehead:

Ah, yea you're right. I just checked it and turns out that I simply didn't place the bombers correctly. I think the problem was that I kept trying to see if it was possible for the swimmers to land on the terrain after bombing through, and when I didn't see that I hastily and incorrectly assumed it wasn't possible :forehead: Not to mention the swimming and ascending off the top of the level was quite annoying, but it does make sense though, as I believe namida explained that all pixels that you don't see when they get cut off at the top of the screen get ignored.

Quote
A fix for this level would be to drastically reduce the number of Bombers so that those who don't care about maximising the saves won't get herringed by them. Then again, maybe those who don't want to save the maximum number of lems deserve the tedium of having to Bomb through everything haha ;P In seriousness, I believe there is a talisman encouraging the player to save all (or not use Bombers), so... it should be clear enough already that the level is solvable without spamming Bombers, even if the player doesn't care about trying to achieve the talisman solution.

Let's just say that I brought it on myself, but only because of my hasty and mistaken assumption that the swimmers wouldn't fall out and land on terrain again. I did check Tricky 1's replay and apparently I did bomb some while falling, so therefore I could had simply deduced that they would had eventually landed on terrain. Guess my mind was just not "in the game" :laugh:

Quote
The terrain isn't really meant to be hidden behind the water either, it's just supposed to be inside it, like islands. Sure, everything should be visible and clear without CPM, but it's reasonable to assume that the terrain will continue beneath the water in most cases.

Right, I didn't think you intentionally did that with the terrain that you can't see, as I stated that I think you simply rotated the level 180 degrees and because that's how the original already is. Not to mention the shape of the terrain should indicate that there's more of it where the water is, so good point! ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] Inverse Lemmings (40 Levels) [Difficulty:Medium-Hard]
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2021, 07:11:50 AM »
Update: the Inverse Lemmings pack download now includes the specified music. Apologies to anyone who encountered silence when playing this pack previously!