9999999999999999999999999999999999 - 1
An acceptable sacrifice.
Hilarious. I'm sure it's more like 9999999999999999999999999999999997 - 1, though.
Show me some exiting jumper behaviors I cannot simulate!
Here are 3. I could think of more, but the debate seems to be winding down now. Note that the following examples presume a midair exit, of course:
1) The quickness and simplicity of one lemming exiting almost immediately with a single click.
2) Jumping across a gap into an exit. Building across it doesn't count because that allows other lemmings to exit and/or other actions to either cancel the builder or destroy the bridge.
3) Jumping over a trap/teleporter and into an exit. This is not the same as jumping over a gap, for obvious reasons.
The puzzles is the main focus of NL.
Yeah, so I keep being told. I'm surprised the game even animates
In each of those cases the jumper is just passivly affected by the object's effect.
How is that any different from being passively affected by an exit? I would genuinely like an answer to this question as, from my perspective, a Jumper being able to enter a teleporter and not an exit is potentially confusing (it's already confusing enough that Fallers can enter teleporters and not exits).
What makes the exit any different from any other interactive object in this regard?And you are again not getting my point: I don't say it is a faller, but very close to one.
This makes no sense at all. How is a Jumper even remotely similar to a Faller? It is moving upwards and horizontally, whereas a Faller is moving downwards and vertically. And it is only the state which follows a Jumper's arc when there is no terrain or object triggers at the other end of it. Your argument has no basis, that's why I'm not "getting your point". A convincing or compelling argument might help, rather than a loose, unfounded comparison between one state and another.
At this point it seems to me that I just repeat myself over and over again. It also seems like you won't change your mind anyway no matter the arguments are and my time is limited.
Yeah, I know the feeling. It's identical to the one I'm experiencing.
The logic if jumpers belong to the class of lemmings that should exit is highly debatable.
So, debate it rather than dismiss it!
I also think that allowing the jumper in the exit is likely to detract more than it is to add, and I will use the same reasoning I used for the spearer and the grenader. Levels where you just park your cursor in [spot] and then click... like a hundred times are not fun to play
Clickbait levels are possible with
any of the skills. Should we not allow Climbers to exit in case people make levels where you have to make 100 lemmings climb up into an exit?
I want to be able to look at a skill/state and determine from first principles whether or not it's likely to be able to exit, as opposed to... the only way to figure out if it can exit or not is to try it and then memorize the result.
Again - "picture puzzle" mentality.
Lemmings is a video game!!! Why is everyone so averse to trying things out and seeing what happens? And please don't use the redundant "hours of trial and error" argument - it takes
seconds to try something like this out in NeoLemmix.
So far, I haven't seen
one good reason not to allow Jumper-exit behaviour. It's all the same generic stuff that usually makes an appearance in these sorts of debates: "might cause backroutes", "might be difficult for new players to learn", "might cause clickbait levels", "I won't know just by looking what the rules are." Whilst these may be good, well-established arguments in general,
not one of them specifically addresses whether or not it makes sense for a Jumper to be able to exit upon contact with the exit's trigger.
Conversely,
all of the arguments that I have put forward are specifically topic-relevant: "Jumpers can already exit, so people might be confused by the change", "Jumpers can interact with other midair objects, so why not exits?", "it's a quick, easy action which may contribute positively towards alternative/challenge solutions", "I would expect it to happen if I was a new player to the game" and all of these have been dismissed.
So much for logic!