Author Topic: [BUG?][PLAYER] Lemming Eater Mid-Air Skill Behaviours  (Read 572 times)

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Offline Minim

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[BUG?][PLAYER] Lemming Eater Mid-Air Skill Behaviours
« on: June 02, 2020, 12:09:00 PM »
OK, here's another level I came across during Challenge level testing: Lemming Eater (Genesis 44). Not sure if this has already been discussed or not, but here's the problem:

The starting platform has two small five-pixel walls on either side above and below it. My first intention was to dig the right edge of the platform to contain the others. When the platform is dug and the digger's spot is one pixel away from the terrain on its right, I tried using a basher as an attempt to isolate the worker. Instead of completing the bash, he falls back into the pit. I was quite stunned and just wondering if this is a bug or not. The miner however was a success.

So, I decided to have an experiment on the level "Bitter Lemming", the level that is easy to access on both NL and Lemmix, and has a layout which is similar to that but has larger walls (that can be compressed if need be). I tried the same mid-air basher trick for both versions. The results come out differently depending on the version. On NL, one-pixel-away bashers do work on large walls, but not on small ones; whereas in Lemmix, they work regardless of the wall's size.

Fortunately, the direction of these bashers/miners aren't affected.
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Online namida

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Re: [BUG?][PLAYER] Lemming Eater Mid-Air Skill Behaviours
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2020, 01:14:12 AM »
Not quite sure I get what you mean here. Can you provide replays?

Offline Proxima

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Re: [BUG?][PLAYER] Lemming Eater Mid-Air Skill Behaviours
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2020, 01:46:53 AM »
I've encountered this behaviour before but I never said anything because I assumed that by now, skill mechanics in NL are pretty much set in stone.

In the screenshot, the digger was assigned on the last possible frame before turning round. If he is now assigned basher where he is halfway down the pole, he will fall down on its left side; but if assigned miner, he will continue through to the right side.

Offline Minim

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Re: [BUG?][PLAYER] Lemming Eater Mid-Air Skill Behaviours
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2020, 09:02:14 AM »
That screenshot accompanied with that post explains it. Thanks, Proxima. :)
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Re: [BUG?][PLAYER] Lemming Eater Mid-Air Skill Behaviours
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2020, 07:10:33 AM »
Okay, so I've taken a close look at this and as crazy as it seems - this would be the expected result of how these two skills behave, and I would not consider this to be a bug.

What it comes down to is - if the basher terrain check finds no terrain, the basher stops on the spot (indeed, a fencer would behave the same way too). Because the lemming hasn't moved forward, it is in midair when the basher is assigned. However, no "is there terrain below me?" check occurs until after movement. I would absolutely agree that this is weird, and that in hindsight, the basher - and most skills for that matter - should revert to faller the moment they have no ground below them, just like blockers do. However, this detail itself - that some skills can operate in midair until a certain point - is far too ingrained by now to consider changing. Now, the difference with the miner occurs because the miner has no terrain check other than "am I standing on something?" (which, like the basher, doesn't get checked until after moving). One particular thing to note here: If the basher terrain check does find terrain, and thus the basher continues, he will continue through, just like the miner.

I'd certainly handle all these cases differently if I were designing a new engine from scratch, but for NeoLemmix, these are far too ingrained to change now. And in light of the above - this is an expected, if weird, behaviour, and not a bug.