Author Topic: [NewFormatNL] Clammings  (Read 17749 times)

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Offline mobius

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[NewFormatNL] Clammings
« on: December 26, 2017, 12:45:46 AM »
Just in time for Christmas and the new year! ..............


 /¯¯¯¯\ |¯¯¯¯|  '      /¯¯¯¯¯| |¯¯¯\/¯¯¯| |¯¯¯\/¯¯¯|      O     |¯¯¯\|¯¯¯|  /¯¯¯¯¯\  /¯¯¯¯¯/
|   (\__/||       |__   /     !      | |              '| |              '| |¯¯¯¯| |              |  |  (/¯¯¯\°\ __¯¯¯\
 \____\ |______| /___/¯|_'| |.__|\/|__.| |.__|\/|__.| |____| |___|\___|  \_____/' /______/

                      
...a NeoLemmix [custom Lemmings] level pack by Clam.
maintained by mobius and Wafflem.

Version: 8 (1/24/2022)
Clammings is a new format Neolemmix levelpack of 75 levels

FOR USE WITH THE LATEST NEW FORMAT VERSION OF NEOLEMMIX.

These levels were compiled from Lemmix, Lix and some contests from 2008 onward.

DOWNLOAD / INSTRUCTIONS:

see attachement

music: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ioxluplrfbx4xmj/AAAe1E-rFqu4mHjiX90IjRB7a?dl=1 (cannot attach music)

-If you don't already have the correct version of NeoLemmix:
after following this link; download the "Latest experimental NeoLemmix Player V11.15.24"
https://www.neolemmix.com/?page=neolemmix

-extract the Clammings folder and place it in NeoLemmix/levels/
extract the "clammings_music_pack" folder separately and put it's contents in your Neolemmix/muisc/ folder. (If don't want custom music playing simply skip this step)

NeoLemmix Styles Download
Includes all the graphic sets needed for the pack, including Insane Steve's IS World and Johannes's Droidlings City. Place the styles folder in the NeoLemmix folder.

-Start NeoLemmix and press F2; select "Clammings" from the list and select a level to begin playing!

-------------------------

Feel free to leave comments or post replays. If you have problems please post with questions. We will continue to update this pack when back-routes are found or issues are fixed. Intended solutions to every level can be found in the "solutions" folder.


DIFFICULTY this pack has three ranks of 25 levels each;

Humane
fun 10 of everything levels to some simple to slightly challenging puzzles


Arcane
more challenging puzzles; be prepared to use your brain in creative ways


Insane
total insanity! This rank will give seasoned veterans to the game a challenge


note: images are from version 1 and as such may not reflect current state of pack.

This pack has no talismans.


CURRENT KNOWN ISSUES:
1. a glitch in NL causes the marquee on the main page to not display properly.
2. OH NO! MORE WEE CREATURES has a backroute that cannot be fixed.

::::::::THANKS TO::::::::::

namida and Nepster for creating and maintaining NeoLemmix
Wafflem for sharing a lot of the workload; making fonts, background and sign images,  music, converting and fixing graphics, testing, level creation and fixing, and being very helpful and encouraging for this project.
IchoTolot and Nessy for making/converting graphic sets and testing.
and of course: Clam for making the levels!


:::::::CHANGE LOG::::::::::

12/25/2017 - version 1: initial release

1/6/2018 - version2: typo fixed to Insane 4.

2/24/2018 - Version 3:
-Replaced level "Brick Replacement Therapy" with lix level: Over and Under and Out
-changed level order:
a. Coming down alive and Sand Me Down Swapped.
b. Over and Under and Out moved to Arcane 14; A step two far moved to Arcane 5; Interval Training moved to Arcane 4.
-Lem Squared, Square Squabble, Pick Me Up and Training Zone Alpha have been redone and should work correctly without any extra tilesets.
-Changed the music in "Catch Your Death" and "Lem Squared".

3/30/1028 - Version 4
fixed typo in "Advanced Altitude Training"
backroutes fixes:
Humane: 21
Arcane: 4
Insane: 4,6,10,17,18,21

5/30/2018 - version 5
backroute fix to Insane 4
a number of music changes in the music pack and in levels. And some minor graphical changes.

9/21/2018 - version 6
graphical fix and some backroute fixes; see post from 9/21

2/6/2021 - version 7
backroute fixes:
ARCANE: Barrel o laughs, Go Fetch, RABBIX, Turning the Screws, Lem ramp scam
INSANE: Dig this, Fall and die, Square root of lemming
some level order changes.

1/24/2022 - version 8
LEVEL "Get out of the Pool" replaced with "Mental Block"
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 12:55:33 AM by mobius »
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline Wafflem

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Re: Clammings
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2017, 05:36:29 AM »
Clammings also uses a custom graphic set that has not yet been released with the latest experimental version of NeoLemmix: Proxima's Minesweeper set. You can download it in the attachment below; extract this ZIP in to the same folder as the styles folder.
Minesweeper attachment removed as Proxima needs to make a fix to his Minesweeper set.

Also, a minor typo I found: Insane 4 "Altitude Training" should be titled "Advanced Altitude Training".

Thanks again for letting me work with you on this pack, mobius! It was a lot of fun helping you out! :laugh: :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 02:58:44 AM by Wafflem »
YouTube: www.tinyurl.com/YTWafflem
Twitch: www.twitch.tv/Wafflem467

Have level designer's block right now? Have some of my incomplete levels for LOTS of ideas!

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Clammings
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2017, 12:09:26 PM »
Are all the levels possible now? ???

As I was solving myself through the last rank of the pack I got stuck on impossible levels due to the changed ceiling behavior! I checked them out in Lix, because I had a feeling and noticed they have a solid terrain ceiling there -- the now deadly ceiling made the NL conversion impossible as the solid ceiling was used actively here.

(Also the [NeoLemmix] classification before the topic title is missing ;))

Offline mobius

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Re: [New NeoLemmix Format] Clammings
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2017, 04:41:39 PM »
@Wafflem; thank you for the style; I forgot this wasn't released yet. I fixed the initial post so you may download the style there too.

@Icho; yes all levels are possible. When you played the pack it wasn't finished and it's been worked on quite a bit since then. You can run the mass replay checker to make sure. The folder "solutions" has a replay for every single level.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline mobius

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2018, 08:47:06 PM »
updated to fix the typo. I don't know how to fix "Oh no more wee creatures"; I'm not real concerned with it atm; Icho's solutions isn't trivial.

Also I added pretty pics to the main post! :D
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline mobius

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2018, 03:15:03 AM »
wafflems streamed a little bit of this pack: some people wanted to see it (video available for 14 days)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/222041089
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline Wafflem

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2018, 08:40:44 PM »
Version 3 is now out!

mobius decided that since the Minesweeper graphic set is currently unavailable that we remake the levels using that set into ones that are available with NeoLemmix.

Changes:
-Replaced level "Brick Replacement Therapy" with lix level: Over and Under and Out
-changed level order:
a. Coming down alive and Sand Me Down Swapped.
b. Over and Under and Out moved to Arcane 14; A step two far moved to Arcane 5; Interval Training moved to Arcane 4.
-Lem Squared, Square Squabble, Pick Me Up and Training Zone Alpha have been redone and should work correctly without any extra tilesets.
-Changed the music in "Catch Your Death" and "Lem Squared".
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 12:56:04 AM by Wafflem »
YouTube: www.tinyurl.com/YTWafflem
Twitch: www.twitch.tv/Wafflem467

Have level designer's block right now? Have some of my incomplete levels for LOTS of ideas!

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2018, 01:40:48 AM »
mobius decided that since the Minesweeper graphic set is currently unavailable that we remake the levels using that set into ones that are available with NeoLemmix.

Thanks for keeping me informed. I had intended to talk to mobius about this, but we never managed to find a time when we were both online in between your stream and now.

I'm a little annoyed that the set was originally posted here without consulting me, but that's in the past now. The important thing now is to finish the set so it's ready for release and okay to be used, especially as I know you and Flopsy are using it in MegSEGABytes (if I have that name right) and I'm anxious not to spoil that.

So, I'll get the set fixed up as soon as I can. Flopsy has sent me the level in question, so I'll tweak it so it works with the fixed set (this will not be a problem, mostly just replacing the single-piece frame with separate pieces) and send it back to Flopsy privately; I hope that's okay with you two. As for the Clammings levels, I'll speak to mobius when I can, but I hope he will reconsider, although I accept that ultimately it's his and your decision.

Offline mobius

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2018, 05:40:18 PM »
I apologize for all the confusion; I should have made a topic about the minesweeper set, apart from just uploading it in this thread to make things clearer. And thinking about it; it's better than nobody has to download a new style from this topic here. Now it's working without needing to download anything extra, or new styles. As the ISWorld set is also available elsewhere. And for anyone who read through the whole thread; since this pack was uploaded here, it was never incomplete/unsolvable; all levels were solvable and working with what was downloadable here.

mobius decided that since the Minesweeper graphic set is currently unavailable that we remake the levels using that set into ones that are available with NeoLemmix.

Thanks for keeping me informed. I had intended to talk to mobius about this, but we never managed to find a time when we were both online in between your stream and now.

I'm a little annoyed that the set was originally posted here without consulting me, but that's in the past now. The important thing now is to finish the set so it's ready for release and okay to be used, especially as I know you and Flopsy are using it in MegSEGABytes (if I have that name right) and I'm anxious not to spoil that.

So, I'll get the set fixed up as soon as I can. Flopsy has sent me the level in question, so I'll tweak it so it works with the fixed set (this will not be a problem, mostly just replacing the single-piece frame with separate pieces) and send it back to Flopsy privately; I hope that's okay with you two. As for the Clammings levels, I'll speak to mobius when I can, but I hope he will reconsider, although I accept that ultimately it's his and your decision.

For the record: I distinctly remember asking you about it on IRC and I thought you were okay with it. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Except for "Pick Me Up" These levels I had already made in another set previously so it wasn't really any work to remake them. And I didn't want the set to be in an incomplete state, nor anyone else to have to hurry/work to fix my mistake.
We can change the levels back if the set is released on it's own (like the other sets have been) and is stable. I personally don't mind if changes are made to it later; I'm willing to fix/make changes to any levels that would need them.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline joshescue18

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2018, 01:23:09 AM »
I finished Humane and Arcane.

Offline mobius

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2018, 09:58:05 PM »
I finished Humane and Arcane.

awesome, thank you! It will take me a while to look through all these, but I will post in due time about any fixes that may need to be made.
:thumbsup:
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline joshescue18

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2018, 07:37:51 PM »
I completed the Insane rank.

Offline mobius

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2018, 07:20:26 PM »
I looked at Insane's replays so far.

the following are backroutes that will be fixed:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline mobius

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2018, 08:06:25 PM »
UPDATE released with backroutes fixes:

Humane: 21
Arcane: 4
Insane: 4,6,10,17,18*,21

*Santa's Workshop: intended solution has been altered.

@joshescue's replays:
the following weren't fixed; Insane 8 and 14 because I have no simple or clean looking way. The other alternate solutions are allowed.

Also congratulations, Josh, you're the first person (to my knowledge) to have solved From the Brink the intended way! 8-)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 08:23:08 PM by mobius »
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline joshescue18

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2018, 01:27:26 AM »
Here are more solutions.

Offline mobius

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2018, 02:40:27 AM »
@Josh; thanks! will look at these soon
----
The following levels are out of order; [this is how they should've appeared]

Arcane 4 - Interval Training
Arcane 5 - A step two far?
Arcane 14 - Over and Under and Out

I don't know how this happened but I'll fix it for the next update.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline mobius

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2018, 01:02:23 AM »
Update: Some changes to music, and backroute fixes. See first post for full change log. Note that there's been an update to the music pack.

Thanks to joshescue for replays. Only Insane 4 was altered; the others were acceptable alternate solutions.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline joshescue18

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2018, 04:08:39 AM »
How about this?

Offline mobius

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2018, 10:28:50 PM »
that's intended, nice job :thumbsup:
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline Nessy

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2018, 12:37:25 AM »
:8(): I finished Humane and Arcane! :8():

Comments (click to show/hide)

Offline Nessy

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2018, 09:44:25 PM »
:8(): I finished the first 16 levels of Insane! :8():

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Offline Nessy

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2018, 10:54:10 PM »
:8(): I finished the last of Insane! :8():

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Offline mobius

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2018, 01:00:15 AM »
Version 6 update:

Fixed an issue with the custom skill panel not displaying correctly. Thanks to Icho and Nessy for pointing this out.

backroutes:

I mistakenly thought I already looked at these latest replays by Nessy (a while ago) but I didn't!!
Thanks to Wafflem for reminding me (and Nessy for these replays)


Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 12:44:35 PM by mobius »
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline Akseli

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2018, 09:33:51 PM »
Thanks mobius and Wafflem for this NeoLemmix pack of Clam's best stuff! :thumbsup:

I attached my solutions so far, solved 70/75, still remaining Insane 10, 20, 22, 24 and 25. I've played Clam's Lemmix packs 5 or so years ago, and now found some of the solutions I hadn't yet solved. :) I haven't touched ClamLix, those levels were new for me.

Here's Clam's packs in the Lemmings level database with level pictures. Levels from Lemmix packs that aren't in Clammings are:

- The Square Route of Lemmings (1-4)
- Singular Squish (1-9)
- Brick Replacement Therapy (2-7)
- Stay Out of the Pool!!! (2-10)
- RABBIX (3-2)
- Pillars of Hades (3-7)
- Rise Through the Ranks (4-2)
- Dropout (4-8)
- Singular Squish II (6-1)
- Digger convergence (6-4)
- 11 Xmas levels out of 13. Spiralling Snowstorm and Santa's Workshop are there, and they're real puzzles, others seem to be technical levels.
- Both CSTame packs. Ridiculous and technical solutions to already existing ONML levels.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with these levels that didn't make the cut, some of them have solutions that need original game mechanics, but most of them aren't that interesting. One okay level could have been ClamSpamXmas09 level 1: "Happy New Year: The Reversal!" but the three Christmas levels that are in Clammings already are perfect.

____________________

Then, ClamSpam05 and its repeats. Here's Clam's original post for challenge solutions in his pack. Did you mobius or Wafflem take these from here or where did you find them? Pretty nice. Advanced Altitude Training and OH NO! MORE WEE CREATURES, did you come up with these modified names yourselves?

The repeat for Lem Squared is named Square Squabble, that's in ClamLix and has the layout of Clammings Insane21: The Square Route of Lemming. The Square Route of Lemming was the title of ClamSpam01 level 4, that's not in the pack. These issues shouldn't matter too much, I'm just pointing them out if you weren't aware of them.
- Insane 14: Box of tricks - This level title is from a ClamLix level, that's somewhat similar to this (repeat for Circus lemmings in training), I guess.
- Arcane 13: A step two far? - Even 5 blockers are removed (from the original level) which makes this level even more hard and interesting, challenge solution was "just" save 100% with no builders.
- Guns Blazing challenge is seemingly "no bashers". There isn't this repeat in Clammings, but I have to say I don't have the slightest clue how that should be solvable.
- The other challenges aren't that interesting and they don't need to be in Clammings, yep.

More comments:

- Humane9: Web 3.0 - I can't find this from my laptop, but I'd recall it was 3-of-everything level, so it's been changed for Clammings?

- Humane18: Works on so many levels... - The decoration on the sides has been removed, even though all the other levels have most of the decoration.

- Humane22: Altitude Training - The one-way wall is missing, intended?

- Arcane10: About Face! - This level has changed somehow (in addition to welcome decoration), the steel blocks are attached to terrain and the lemmings are climbers by default, are these changes supposed to decrease multitasking?

- Insane7: Spiralling Snowstorm and 17: Santa's Workshop - Ooh, I love the song here and in addition, these two levels are absolutely fantastic! :thumbsup:

- Insane10: Urban-Ledge End - The song doesn't loop, it's all quiet after few minutes. :P

- Insane17: Santa's Work Shop - Why is the time limit 25 minutes, is there a funny story for this? :P

____________________

Finally some spoilery comments on the levels:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh yeah, and one more question: Do you know Clam's intended solutions for sure?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 09:49:08 PM by Akseli »

Offline mobius

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2018, 12:09:45 AM »
Thanks for all the comments! I will look over the replays when I can. (It may take me a while!)

We used the (or based on) the challenges from that link you posted.
We (mostly wafflem) came up with new names.
It's my belief that the "no bashers" is a typo on Clam's part. His own replays for that pack reveal his challenge solutions and in that level I think he uses no bombers, so he probably meant bombers instead of bashers. In any case I just didn't feel a repeat of this one was worth it.

Yes, Humane9 was changed.

Humane 22: yes; this is the easier version (with multiple solutions).

Arcane 10: these changes were necessary if the level was to be included; in the original there are gaps which bashers avoid but also need to be dropped through in that intended solution. This behavior no longer works in NL.

Insane10: Thanks for pointing that out! I'll look into it!

Insane17: The time limit is supposed to give a subtle hint to part of the solution (having to wait a while for lemmings to sync up). I might shorten it a bit thought since it's way more than necessary.

No; I am not 100% certain of Clam's intended solutions for sure because he's no longer active.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2020, 07:27:35 AM »
Hello mobius,

I have finished solving all of Clammings. Replays attached. I already gave you the link to my LP of the pack, but I'll go ahead and link it here as well.

LP link: Kaywhyn's LP of Clam's Clammings. Enjoy! :P

Thoughts on the Pack

At the very start of the LP, I mentioned that I haven't ever played any of Clam's levels before. However, this turned out to be very wrong, as I ended up recognizing many of the levels from the other pack you compiled, RotL. I think I might had ended up playing some of Clam's 10-level Dos packs from a long time ago, as I recognized far more than I thought I would. Because of this, it wasn't a complete blind LP as I thought it would be. However, a lot of time has passed that I pretty much don't remember solutions to any of his levels. Even then, that doesn't matter, as I still ended up being able to solve all of them, even if many of the levels took me a while.

This is a very well-done pack from start to finish. This appears to be a "best of Clam's levels pack," as the levels are taken from his various packs. It appears that Clam was huge on glitch levels, and so many of the levels had to be reworked in order to work properly in NL, since it eliminated all glitches. I'm not sure if this is correct, but I believe that's how the challenges for Lemmings and ONML got started? I'm guessing Dos/Lemmix was used and he ended up discovering a lot of glitches that initially weren't revealed but they later became well-known to this community. It's quite unfortunate that he's been inactive for a very long time and so I might not ever get a chance to meet and know him. He seems like a decent and great fellow from all the posts I've been reading from him during the times I have come to the Forums to read the discussions.

Regarding the difficulty of the pack, it starts off very easy with X-of-everything levels, but then the pack drops this at about the halfway point of the first rank. Once that happens, the pack immediately gets difficult and stays hard until you finish solving the pack. There are still some easy levels here and there, but for the most part progressing further into the pack the levels get quite hard. For that reason, despite being a 75-level pack, it gets hard very fast. It was then that I realized the pack wasn't going to be as quick of a solve as I thought it would. I ended up taking longer on the Arcane rank than I thought, and similarly with the Insane rank. Several levels ended up needing multiple videos to solve. Except for Sammings 1, this has been true for all the LPs I have done so far, where every pack I have LPed has at least one level that needed more than one video to solve. I suspect this will be true for all other packs I LP.

I absolutely loved the challenges that awaited me in the pack. I felt they all challenged me appropriately, especially since some of the hard levels felt extremely satisfying to solve once I was able to figure out the solution and get them to work. I've noticed that a lot of the levels were quite small in size, but don't be fooled. Most of them turned out to be hard levels. As has been true with most of the packs I have LPed, smalls levels give the appearance of being easy, but in actuality turn out to be hard, mostly due to the skillset. What makes them not as hard is due to how there isn't that much happening, though there are exceptions.


Humane Rank Feedback

Since the first several levels are very easy X-of-everything, I'm just going to do feedback on the ones that weren't. As was previously mentioned, the rank starts off easy but already starts getting difficult around the halfway point. That was the biggest sign to me that the rest of the pack wasn't going to be a cakewalk and not be a quick solve. The only levels I will remark on are Humane 9 - Web 3.0 and Humane 10 - Diagonal Construction. The former is probably the most difficult X-of-everything in the pack, although it's more due to navigating the top, but it's still an easy level due to the very lenient save requirement. The latter I thought is an excellent level due to how it encourages mixing up different skills to use instead of using just one skill over and over, e.g, some areas are better suited for platforming instead of using builders despite generally being better to get higher using builders.

Some Humane Levels Feedback (click to show/hide)


Arcane Rank Feedback

The pack is done playing around, and it only gets harder from here. Pretty good mix of challenges here.

Some Arcane Levels Feedback (click to show/hide)


Insane Rank Feedback

More hard levels await. Solving time slowed considerably in this rank, much more than the Arcane rank. Most of the time I could only solve 1-2 levels per video. Some videos dedicate just a single level! A lot of these were extremely satisfying to figure out and solve.

Some Insane Levels Feedback (click to show/hide)


Clam did a great job with these levels, and again I absolutely enjoyed solving this pack. It was very satisfying figuring a lot of these levels out. The levels especially got hard in both the Arcane and Insane ranks, but nothing too overly hard that I wasn't able to handle. Thank you to you and Wafflem for converting the pack to New Formats and keeping Clam's legacy alive. It would be nice to meet Clam, but I'm not going to keep my hopes up that he will eventually come online here, not after having been absent from here for years.   
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2020, 09:56:46 AM »
Great review! I just wanted to reply to a few points....

It appears that Clam was huge on glitch levels, and so many of the levels had to be reworked in order to work properly in NL, since it eliminated all glitches. I'm not sure if this is correct, but I believe that's how the challenges for Lemmings and ONML got started? I'm guessing Dos/Lemmix was used and he ended up discovering a lot of glitches that initially weren't revealed but they later became well-known to this community.

The original challenges thread was started by LemSteven in 2005. I had a look back just now and was surprised to notice that the 35-page thread ended in February 2006; all that work and all those discoveries happened in less than a year! Although other people (including me) posted, virtually all the discoveries were made by LemSteven, ccexplore and tseug, with ccexplore in particular discovering most of the glitches. In this period, new glitches were largely kept secret in case their discoverers wanted to use them in new custom levels (yes, that was seen as legitimate back then).

Clam joined the forum in 2008. All the major glitches had been found by then, but were still secret. As far as I can tell, Clam managed to rediscover all the glitches by himself (though obviously with the help of hints from knowing what challenge results had been achieve with them), and he was the first to reveal all the known glitches.

Quote
Humane 15 - Play Bridge IIRC I believe this was somewhat a huge step up in difficulty for the Picnic rank of RotL.

This level was incongruously placed among the skill tutorial levels in RotL, just because it uses builders only. Obviously, I will be moving it to later in the rank for the new-formats version of RotL :P

Quote
Humane 20 - Lemming Pachinko I think this is the very first level to break the long streak of levels that I have played before by Clam. This definitely wasn't in the other engines due to the stoner skill, since it is a NL exclusive skill.

Actually, it's originally a Lix level. NL's stoner isn't exactly the same as Lix's cuber (the cuber makes a square of terrain, and can't be assigned in mid-air), but they are similar enough to be interchangeable in many cases.

Offline Turrican

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2020, 12:10:14 PM »
First of all , great job on beating the pack , and on your LP! :thumbsup:

To add to what Proxima said , several of the glitches and non-glitch tricks , the participants of the challenge boards had discovered , would also make it on custom levels they have made (assuming that they were active in the custom levels scene too , not all of the participants were).

So in that case you could find glitch levels , amongst other levels in their levelpacks , but in any case the number of glitch levels was moderate , because when you create a small 10 levels pack , you don't have the luxury of dedicating a large part of a pack to a single type of level.

Clam if I remember correctly , had two glitch levels in his main packs ( "Get out from the pool!" , and "Rise through the ranks" )

But most of his glitch levels could be found in his CSTame packs ( CSTame 1 + 2 ) .

The CSTame packs were two packs , Clam made in 2009 , and their purpose were , to make the Tame levels from onml much more challenging. These packs were practically "challenges:The levelpack" , because they contained 20 challenges ( 1 for each Tame level ) , tranformed into custom levels.

The players here had two options: They could load the two packs and try to complete the levels , or they could load the dos version of onml , and try to complete the challenges there.

Because the challenges needed to work the same way in onml , things like what Willlem did in his pack ( like adding additional opening hatches ) , were not allowed in these packs. You are not allowed to make a single change on the terrain , when you design these levels/challenges , because every solution needs to also work on dos onml , exactly the same way. And for that reason , the concept of backroutes doesn't exist for these levels/packs.

As a result some of these Tame-based levels ended to be some of Clam's hardest levels (probably harder comparted to the levels that exist here in Clammings).

And also some of these levels , ended as some of the most high quality glitch levels that have ever appeared in dos/Lemmix ( levels like "Now you're stuck" , "The squares fight back" and "LemmisXVIII" ) .

Also several of the levels had a very strict time limit because they were practically speedrun challenges ( with most notable example the final level , called "Speed run challenge!" , which required you to save 100% in Tame 20 in 30 seconds. you had 1 minute time limit , but you needed to beat it with 30 seconds remaining on the clock ) .
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 05:24:15 PM by Turrican »
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Online kaywhyn

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2020, 10:52:39 AM »
Thanks for the useful info, gentlemen! :thumbsup: Especially to Proxima for linking the glitch topics.

The original challenges thread was started by LemSteven in 2005. I had a look back just now and was surprised to notice that the 35-page thread ended in February 2006; all that work and all those discoveries happened in less than a year! Although other people (including me) posted, virtually all the discoveries were made by LemSteven, ccexplore and tseug, with ccexplore in particular discovering most of the glitches. In this period, new glitches were largely kept secret in case their discoverers wanted to use them in new custom levels (yes, that was seen as legitimate back then).

It's understandable, considering that they didn't want others to know about them just yet, if ever.

Quote
Clam joined the forum in 2008. All the major glitches had been found by then, but were still secret. As far as I can tell, Clam managed to rediscover all the glitches by himself (though obviously with the help of hints from knowing what challenge results had been achieve with them), and he was the first to reveal all the known glitches.

This definitely explains why a lot of his levels are so hard, because he did a really good job of using glitches and enforcing them in his levels. Even if they weren't glitch levels, they're still quite hard anyway, as I found out from my LP of Clammings :XD:

Quote
Quote
Humane 15 - Play Bridge IIRC I believe this was somewhat a huge step up in difficulty for the Picnic rank of RotL.

This level was incongruously placed among the skill tutorial levels in RotL, just because it uses builders only. Obviously, I will be moving it to later in the rank for the new-formats version of RotL :P

Well, it's not hard if you allow yourself to lose some lemmings. It's definitely much harder going for the 100% solution, although it's still not too hard. Even then, I don't think I'm the only one to say that the level's a big step up in difficulty.

First of all , great job on beating the pack , and on your LP! :thumbsup:

Thanks for the kind words, Turrican! :thumbsup:

Quote
But most of his glitch levels could be found in his CSTame packs ( CSTame 1 + 2 ) .

The CSTame packs were two packs , Clam made in 2009 , and their purpose were , to make the Tame levels from onml much more challenging. These packs were practically "challenges:The levelpack" , because they contained 20 challenges ( 1 for each Tame level ) , tranformed into custom levels.

The players here had two options: They could load the two packs and try to complete the levels , or they could load the dos version of onml , and try to complete the challenges there.

As a result some of these Tame-based levels ended to be some of Clam's hardest levels (probably harder comparted to the levels that exist here in Clammings).

And also some of these levels , ended as some of the most high quality glitch levels that have ever appeared in dos/Lemmix ( levels like "Now you're stuck" , "The squares fight back" and "LemmisXVIII" ) .

Also several of the levels had a very strict time limit because they were practically speedrun challenges ( with most notable example the final level , called "Speed run challenge!" , which required you to save 100% in Tame 20 in 30 seconds. you had 1 minute time limit , but you needed to beat it with 30 seconds remaining on the clock ).

Thanks for the useful info. I have yet to try his ONML Tame levels, but I'm doubtful I would be able to solve them myself. As familiar as I am with the Dos version having grown up with it, there's plenty of glitches I don't even know about, let alone be able to work them out and get them to work.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Proxima

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2020, 02:22:10 PM »
It's understandable, considering that they didn't want others to know about them just yet, if ever.

That doesn't answer the question of why they [mainly ccexplore] didn't want others to know about the glitches. The only excuse that was given at the time was "I might want to make custom levels requiring these glitches, which people therefore won't be able to solve", which felt weak even at the time; it feels crazy looking back, now that culture has changed and we understand that glitch levels are not much fun because it's like being asked to solve a puzzle when the rules are hidden from you.

And this was a time when Lemmix was the primary engine for custom content. Designers who weren't aware of the glitches still had to live in fear of having their levels ruined by glitch solutions, which were considered to be valid backroutes. Sharing knowledge of the glitches would have been a huge benefit to the designing side of the community, but as I said, it didn't happen for years after they were first discovered.

I don't want to sound like I'm attacking ccexplore, who has always been a great community member. I just never understood this particular decision, and still don't.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 02:28:27 PM by Proxima »

Offline mobius

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2021, 10:56:03 PM »
minor announcement: this pack will be getting a pretty big update fairly soon to fix many backroutes.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

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Offline mobius

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2021, 11:06:43 PM »
Update 2/6/2021

see initial post for attachment. Please download latest version if you would like to play this pack.


https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3642.msg68484#msg68484

Following levels were changed in version 7;

ARCANE:
Barrel o laughs
Go Fetch
RABBIX
Turning the Screws
Lem ramp scam

INSANE:
Dig this
Fall and die
Square root of lemming

---------

a few other levels
(such as Hall of Stalling and Spirialling Snowstorm)
have minor backroutes which will not be fixed at this time. They are minimal and would require large rework to fix.

----------

A few levels in Insane were moved around for difficulty. Hall of Stalling was the only level moved down to rank 2 and swapped with Over and Under and Out.

big thanks to Kaywhyn for the feedback in his LP :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 12:04:46 AM by mobius »
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
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Offline mobius

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Re: [NewFormatNL] Clammings
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2022, 12:54:42 AM »
Update version 8;  [see first post for downloads]

the level "Mental Block" has been added to the Arcane rank, replacing the level "Get out of the Pool" (which I attached to this post, to save it for posterity.) Get out of the Pool was originally a level featuring a glitch and arguably not that great compared to the rest of the rank.

-This level Mental Block was not with the rest of Clam's Lemmix levels and was overlooked until now.
Thanks to geoo, Pooty and kaywhyn for bringing it to my attention.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain