[NeoLemmix] Lemmings Stampede

[Nepster]

I played the first three ranks in version 1.2. Replays are attached.

First a general comment: I noticed lots of level with time limits that are way above the actual time needed to complete the level. If they are not actually needed to prevent backroutes, I would prefer to have infinite time on such levels.

Warning: Spoilers ahead!

Tame (click to show/hide)

Tame 2 and Tame 8 should switch places.
Tame 3 is much harder than all other tame levels and should be moved to Crazy.
Tame 2 and Tame 10 were my favorites of this rank.

Crazy (click to show/hide)

Crazy 1: Much harder than the following levels. This is a typical bulletride level: A plethora of possible approaches, but hardly any work. Unfortunately this means that some failing attempts had neater ideas than the actual solution.
Crazy 2: Rather easy level, that could be moved to Tame.
Crazy 3: Given the terrain, I had hoped for a solution that doesn't purely go along the bottom.
Crazy 4: I save 10/10 in a probably not 100% intended way.
Crazy 5: I have one backroute and one other solution that seems more intended, but has lots of spare skills.
Crazy 6: Nice and relatively easy level. Could be moved earlier.
Crazy 7: Lots of fiddling around.
Crazy 8: I really don't see a different approach, but my solution doesn't feel completely intended. Especially the miner usage feels weird.
Crazy 9: Amazing level (now that the backroutes are removed), but could well be in the next rank.
Crazy 10: I can save 39 lemmings, so I suspect a backroute.

Wild (click to show/hide)

Wild 1: Very clever level.
Wild 2: Theme "Look around until you find a place where one can do with one skill less".
Wild 3: Very nice level.
Wild 4: Could be moved to Crazy. After one counts the builders, the path is obvious.
Wild 5: I probably said so already in your weekly pack thread, but this is similar to Tame 2: Fiddle around with the destructive skills until all lemmings are caught.
Wild 6: Nice level, but a bit hard on the timing.
Wild 7: Likely a slight backroute, as I save all lemmings and don't use all climbers and floaters.
Wild 8: Another typical bulletride level (cf Crazy 1). Again the actual solution feels less elegant than some other approaches.
Wild 9: Somehow I don't need the second miner. The beginning needs a lot of fiddling around until no lemming falls down into the gap on the left.
Wild 10: And another typical bulletride level (cf Crazy 1). And again the solution is a bit of a disppointment after lots of more ingenious attempts.

[bulletride]

I played the first three ranks in version 1.2. Replays are attached.

First a general comment: I noticed lots of level with time limits that are way above the actual time needed to complete the level. If they are not actually needed to prevent backroutes, I would prefer to have infinite time on such levels.

Warning: Spoilers ahead!

Tame (click to show/hide)

Tame 2 and Tame 8 should switch places.
Tame 3 is much harder than all other tame levels and should be moved to Crazy.
Tame 2 and Tame 10 were my favorites of this rank.

Crazy (click to show/hide)

Crazy 1: Much harder than the following levels. This is a typical bulletride level: A plethora of possible approaches, but hardly any work. Unfortunately this means that some failing attempts had neater ideas than the actual solution.
Crazy 2: Rather easy level, that could be moved to Tame.
Crazy 3: Given the terrain, I had hoped for a solution that doesn't purely go along the bottom.
Crazy 4: I save 10/10 in a probably not 100% intended way.
Crazy 5: I have one backroute and one other solution that seems more intended, but has lots of spare skills.
Crazy 6: Nice and relatively easy level. Could be moved earlier.
Crazy 7: Lots of fiddling around.
Crazy 8: I really don't see a different approach, but my solution doesn't feel completely intended. Especially the miner usage feels weird.
Crazy 9: Amazing level (now that the backroutes are removed), but could well be in the next rank.
Crazy 10: I can save 39 lemmings, so I suspect a backroute.

Wild (click to show/hide)

Wild 1: Very clever level.
Wild 2: Theme "Look around until you find a place where one can do with one skill less".
Wild 3: Very nice level.
Wild 4: Could be moved to Crazy. After one counts the builders, the path is obvious.
Wild 5: I probably said so already in your weekly pack thread, but this is similar to Tame 2: Fiddle around with the destructive skills until all lemmings are caught.
Wild 6: Nice level, but a bit hard on the timing.
Wild 7: Likely a slight backroute, as I save all lemmings and don't use all climbers and floaters.
Wild 8: Another typical bulletride level (cf Crazy 1). Again the actual solution feels less elegant than some other approaches.
Wild 9: Somehow I don't need the second miner. The beginning needs a lot of fiddling around until no lemming falls down into the gap on the left.
Wild 10: And another typical bulletride level (cf Crazy 1). And again the solution is a bit of a disppointment after lots of more ingenious attempts.

Lots of things to change. I will get to this when I get the chance.

For Crazy 8...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You 'kind of' solved it right but you did it weirdly I guess. The blocker isn't needed at all in this level. First lemming mines to by time while the second lemming builds to the next platform at a certain spot so that he falls and turns around on the steep part. I wasn't sure how tough this was to notice so I wasn't sure if this level is easy or hard.

For Crazy and below spare skills/if you save more than intended is fine.

Is a typical bulletride level a bad thing? Are these types of levels things I should avoid?

[Nepster]

Is a typical bulletride level a bad thing? Are these types of levels things I should avoid?

No, having lots of (misleading) options is great! But they would be even better if the actual solution would be special and more memorable.

[bulletride]

Fair enough! I think I removed a cooler/harder way to beat Crazy 1 that I took out because I wanted it to be easy (probably the way you tried it lol). Ill add that back in.

Wild 8 has a bunch of ways to beat it (although they are all similar i guess). I wasn't sure if I was going to include it but you said it was good in the weekly releases so i kept it in lol. Wild 10 is a back route so hopefully the real way is 'slightly' more interesting :p

[IchoTolot]

Havoc and Wicked resolved

[bulletride]

lol, you sure know how to ruin my dreams . Lots of back routes again. Havoc 1 and 2 still backroutes. Level 2's solution was pretty impressive though! Wild 1, 8 (darn gaps), 9, 10 still backrouted as well. I finally have some time to start on fixing all these issues but some will be harder to fix than others (darn that wicked 10 blocker thing). Guess I will start with Nepsters back routes/changes and work my way up!

Edit: I may swap out a level or 2 since this will be a big update anyway. Any opinions on levels that were bad and are worth removing?

[bulletride]

My brain hurts but ver 1-5 is complete. There was some level re-ordering as well as time limit removals.

Level Changes:

Tame
Windbreaker: Slight terrain adjustments to require more than 2 builders.

Crazy
Cat Burglars: removed lots of excess skills and slightly tighter save requirement
Clear The Way!: Added more diggers and bashers.
Green Valley: You can now build to the tree by the exit and bash through it without splatting.

Wild
Cool Steel: Removed all but 2 floaters.
The Bubbleless Bubble Level: prevented Nepsters backroute as well as another I found.
Ice Climbers: Fixed Nepsters saved Miner.
Afterthough(part 1+2): Slight terrain adjustment

Wicked
Magma Chamber: Added steel to roof
Shakey Foundations: Wider gap
A Hole in the Wall: removed a floater
Pits and Pitfalls: The easiest way to prevent IchoTolots solution was to remove all the blockers and replaced them with diggers! Hopefully this will not cause even more problems.

Havoc
Acid Washed Lemmings: Adjusted the hook chains over the gap.
Polar Pass: Wider water and narrower bottom cavern.


Thanks for the replays you 2 big help!

[Nepster]

I resolved Tame-Wild. Replays attached.

Comments with Spoilers (click to show/hide)

Tame Windbreaker: Still possible with only 2 builders.
Crazy Green Valley: Yes, this is the more elegant approach I tried earlier.
Wild Cold Steel: Not sure whether to prefer this or the previous solution.
Wild Bubbleless Bubble Level: Almost certainly a backroute. My first solution was better.
Wild Afterthough (part 1): Guaranteed a backroute.

[IchoTolot]

Same for Wicked and Havoc

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think Havoc is finally intended.

Your steel wall in Wicked 1 doesn't hinder me! I go where I want!
+ I've got a good feeling about Wicked 10. Not sure about 8 and 9 though

[Nepster]

And here are Wicked+Havoc.

Wicked spoilers (click to show/hide)

1) Not really a fan of this solution.
2) Ok, but nothing really special here.
3) Nice level (as I probably already said in the weekly release topic)
4) My solution is a hackjob including the ever so useful basher-staircases.
5) Nice level, but reducing the number of lemmings a little bit would reduce the required precision a lot.
6) Rather easy and straight-forward level.
7) Very good level.
8) Nice level idea, but the timing at the end is annoying, especially the double-bombing through the last ice spike.
9) Please, please tell me that this a backroute! This required lots and lots of tries to place the skills correctly in order to catch all lemmings.
10) This seems too easy to be intended.

Havoc (click to show/hide)

1) Another bulletride level . The hardest level in the whole pack (except possibly Havoc 8). Given that there are lots of elegant approaches, it is a bit disappointing that the actual solution requires a basher-staricase.
2) Very clever level!
3) Another excellent level!
4) This is probably intended, even though the solution feels a bit weird.
5) Nice solution, but please raise the number of lemmings to 50. My solution would no longer work if you gave only 39 instead of 40 lemmings, and even now it requires some precise skill placements to be fast enough.
6) I really don't know whether this is intended or not, especially as I don't use any floater.
7) Slight variation of my solution in the weekly thread. I preferred the original solution with mining from the right, instead of that miner-bomber hack.
8) see contest thread.
9) My first solution took about 1 minute too long. So here a slight variation. Nice level.
10) Not using the left half at all cries "Backroute!". But my solution is prime example how to abuse the various skills.

[bulletride]

Have some people over this weekend so I haven't had a chance to check these out yet, but from the descriptions there are definitely a few back routes still. I already know I am going to rebuild A Hole in the Wall from scratch. I have it planned out in my mind already. Ill probably release a new update sometime tomorrow.

[bulletride]

Version 1-6 is complete.

New Level! 'Bobbing for Lemmings' replaces 'A Hole in the Wall'

Tame
Wind Breaker: Probably didn't need to fix this but I did anyway out of spite :p

Wild
Afterthought (part 1): Raised the steel to stop the hack job
The Bubbleless Bubble Level: fixed again!

Wicked
Magma Chamber: Had to add steel to the starting platform. Blocks Nepsters route and also prevents IchoTolot from going where he pleases. The level is probably a lot more obvious now though
Santa's little helpers: This should prevent both of your solutions now.
Pipe Cleaner: Made the pit wider.
Shakey Foundations: I reverted this to the original version. The way I designed it makes it hard to prevent lemming spacing so I might as well accept it as a possible way to beat it lol.
Dante's Inferno: No Changes...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The way I intended is how IchoTolot beat it. I had tried to prevent the blocker digger turn around but Nepster found a way around it :p.

I lowered Hot Spring Cove and Pits and Pitfalls a few spots as they are fairly easy I guess. IchoTolot's solution to Pits wasn't intended but is acceptable

Havoc:

Rearranged some of the levels.

Acid Washed Lemmings: No changes..

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Both solutions were intended. For Nepster's critique, if you use 2 builders to build across the gap you don't have to use a builder basher staircase :p

Afterthought Part 2: You wanted more lemmings... so I gave you less! You have it mostly right except for the end part (which I thought 40 was low enough to prevent lol)

A Trap Well Spring: Opps. Really sloppy thing I didn't check for when I changed the terrain around. You should not be able to mine and bomb through the rock anymore (I hope).

Wild Canyon: I raised the steel 3 pixels. I think this blocks Nepsters crazy bridge miner blocker thing.

Thanks again!

[Nepster]

Everything solved again.

Wild:
Bubbleless Bubble Level: My solution gets uglier and uglier, though not likely more intended.
Afterthought (part 1): Looks more intended now. Nice level.

Wicked:
Magma Chamber: Looks more intended now. And don't worry: I think it is still one of the more difficult Wicked levels.
Santa's Little Helpers: This has at least some chance to be intended, even though my solution requires a few pixel-precise skill assignments.
Pipe Cleaner: Very nice level idea! This feels now completely intended, even though I don't use one of the destructive skills.
Bobbing for Lemmings: This should be another backroute.

Havoc:
Afterthought (part 2): I changed the end of my solution, but I still prefer the previous solution to be honest.
A Trap Well Sprung: Sorry to kill your hope, but almost the same solution still works.
Wild Canyon: Nepster's crazy bridge miner blocker thing still works . One pixel more steel and I have to think of something different though.

[IchoTolot]

Will look into the pack again soon, but now my own stuff needs some love as well

[bulletride]

Version 1 - 7

Changes:
Bubbleless Bubble Level: Fixed again!
Santa's Little Helpers: Kind of cool solution but not a whole lot of helping going on lol. Fixed!
Bobbing For Lemmings: Fixed!
Afterthought (part 2): Changed to 50 lemmings as suggested before
A Trap Well Sprung: Fixed again! I think... probably... maybe?
Wild Canyon: Steel is now 1 pixel higher!
----

Pipe Cleaner: Not how I intended but it works out so perfectly its almost like I did! I will leave this in!