Lemmings Forums Level Contest #9 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)

[namida]

And, solved the remaining NeoLemmix levels! Just got the SuperLemmini and Lix ones to go now.

Video: https://youtu.be/_-uIvf2VX-M

[Nepster]

Impressive solution to "Assault of the Helicopter" which abuses the slightly uneven ground. Here is the intended solution, which is way faster and uses far less skills.

[namida]

Ah, nice!

Assault of the Helicopter (click to show/hide)

I was planning to try something multi-lemming-based (I didn't have an exact plan of what it would be) if my main plan failed... but as you saw, it didn't.

[namida]

I had a look at Rubix's Lix level, but I get the feeling that - outside of perhaps...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...a VERY difficult-to-execute solution via the nuke...

...it's going to rely on knowing Lix much better than I do in order to notice the solution.

Video: https://youtu.be/NgJXUFgxSAg


I also solved both of Colorful Arty's SuperLemmini levels. Both were alright, but nothing special, IMO. Replay is attached for the first level; I forgot to save it for the second one (but the video is there, at least).

Video: https://youtu.be/Ee4Gv-npGfw


A general tip I'd like to put out there for contest entrants (and just to clarify - this is a piece of advice from me, not a contest rule in any way!) - the contests probably aren't the best place to show off some obscure and annoying-to-execute trick. Based on past results, nor is it really the place for "how can I make a level as hard as possible". Both of these kind of levels have tended to do quite poorly in past contests; levels that are challenging but not too hard, not a pain in the ass to perform the solution to, and most of all, fun to play, are the ones that tend to do best. Of course there are exceptions - "Parking Garage" for example was probably the hardest level in the contest it was entered in, and not only did it win that contest, but also came 3rd in Level Of The Year 2015 - but in general, remember that the entire community are the judges, and this includes people who do not like fiddly execution, as well as people who are not great at solving overly difficult levels.

[IchoTolot]

I had a look at Rubix's Lix level, but I get the feeling that - outside of perhaps...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...a VERY difficult-to-execute solution via the nuke...

...it's going to rely on knowing Lix much better than I do in order to notice the solution.

Nuke stuff? What are you thinking?    Think more about the 42! 

Personally the solution came to me only by thinking about what I want to do and Rubix had told me what 42 was meant to tell you afterwards, but it makes 100% sense and is a great help if you think about it
Again as I commented: The solution is 100% logical and no glitch stuff involved.

[Simon]

The lingering fear of nuke solutions points to a game design problem. Nuke should live outside the solution space. Singleplayer should prevent saving after nuke, and show that clearly.

Yeah, Rubix's level doesn't need the nuke.

-- Simon

[namida]

Solved it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX-RbzlM-tI

In regards to nuke solutions: I don't think there's anything wrong with them in general. The reason I was worried about having to use a nuke solution here was not becuase of the use of the nuke in itself, but because of having to use it for the fling functionality of the exploders, which already tends to be messy enough without using it in the context of nuking.

In particular, I don't think in Lix's case, a different rule should exist between singleplayer and multiplayer for this.

[Proxima]

That gets into an old thorny debate. The problem is that in multiplayer, nuke can disrupt the level and stop it being a fair, fun contest between the remaining players. I know that at one point it was proposed to have the nuke kill all lix without destroying the terrain, but I don't know if the discussion about that ever got anywhere.

As for singleplayer, as well as the consistency argument, having to control a fling-nuke would be extremely fiddly and go completely against Lix's "concentrate on the puzzle, remove execution difficulty" philosophy. In earlier versions of Lix, the level designer could choose whether to have a normal or fling nuke, but I think that got removed, not sure why.

[namida]

Just a reminder that, assuming no further updates, the update phase will close in just under 24 hours (if there are any more updates, it'll close when there haven't been any for 72 hours). So if your level needed updating again, now's your last chance to do so!

The voting will begin 4 days after the update phase closes.

[mobius]

Finally got around to watching namida's solutions;

nice one on Copenhagen; a new solution but not a backroute. This was basically what I was originally going for but I couldn’t pull it off so I resorted to Icho and other’s solution.

I won't be updating my levels any further.

[namida]

Further updates are no longer allowed. Voting will open on April 20th.

Discussion / replay sharing is still allowed until voting opens.

[IchoTolot]

Before the voting phase begins:  Attached are the intended solutions for my levels

[Flopsy]

I've uploaded a video of my solution to my YT channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjq9VSW469o&feature=youtu.be

Also attached the replay file for those who want it.

[Gronkling]

Guess I'll give the intended solution to my level
Replay file attatched to post, poorly edited youtube video here