Little Idea: Voting for the "Worst Levels" of the original games

[IchoTolot]

As we had the voting process about the best level of the original games: How about voting for the worst now

GigaLem had the idea yesterday on Roundthewheel's 25's anniversary stream and I also thought this would be another great voting process

Now you could have the chance to get revenge on "Hunt the Nessy" or "Rendevous at the Mountain"

[namida]

I don't know that I could be bothered hosting that, but if anyone else would like to they're more than welcome to do so.

[Simon]

Bad levels have contributed to modern level design -- as counterexamples.

And test cases for bugs and design inconsistency. Rendezvous allows to die in the space at the right, where you cannot scroll to. When you bash towards the left end, lemmings turn at the solid edge. The level top has the magic builder barrier, where builders stop and walk forward.

Going Up is another building stage, and messes up the UI drawing when the basher bashes offscreen pixels. Bashing even higher can crash the game IIRC.

-- Simon

[Proxima]

There was the "Top 5, Bottom 5" topic years back that included this idea. I don't think the results will have changed enough to make re-running it interesting.

[IchoTolot]

There was the "Top 5, Bottom 5" topic years back that included this idea. I don't think the results will have changed enough to make re-running it interesting.

Everyone dislikes Hunt the Nessy and We All Fall Down.

Oh I didn't had that topic in my mind at all.
Well it seems that scrapping the idea is the best way.

[Akseli]

Everyone dislikes Hunt the Nessy and We All Fall Down.

I don't.

Also I'm not a huge fan of that kind statements where the writer itself thinks them to be objective standpoints. They are not.

Please people, use more precise expressions, so that outside readers won't get wrong assumptions. I've seen many these kinds of posts during these years and I always flinch a bit to them. This is something for all forum posters to take into account.
More correct form of this example would have been "Some people dislike Hunt the Nessy and We All Fall Down", though I would've accepted more informative though more error-prone "Most people dislike Hunt the Nessy and We All Fall Down", too. "Everyone dislikes..." is just overkill and wrong in every way.

There was the "Top 5, Bottom 5" topic years back that included this idea. I don't think the results will have changed enough to make re-running it interesting.

Agree with this, in my opinion there's no point in not posting to the old topics just because they're old, people tend to make too many new topics which leads to topic clutter, though this is a completely another issue, if many topics with few posts is better and easier to browse than few topics with many posts...

[Proxima]

I'm sorry of course you are right to reprimand me for that. What I meant was that that was the consensus of the previous topic, but that still doesn't mean that everyone feels that way.

[Flopsy]

That was a great stream, too bad I missed the last 12 levels of Mayhem.

There was great dislike for the builder heavy levels in the stream, like Lemming Sanctuary in Sight, Hunt the Nessy and King of the Castle aswell.

Triple Trouble got a bit of hate but it was only because of difficulty so I guess that's not the kind of hate we're looking for.

That was the general opinion of about 30-40 people who were watching the stream anyway.

[grams88]

When my Dad and I play the two player version of lemmings on steam st emulator there is one level (The rope bridge) I think it is called, at the start of the level the lemmings walk right into their opponents house but if you turn them around they will walk right out the screen then they will come back a moment later.

[ccexplore]

Honestly, skimming through the old "top 5 bottom 5" thread, I don't get a strong sense of consensus at all on the bottom 5 levels even for Lemmings 1, though it does seem like Hunt the Nessy was called out by quite a few.

I think personally I actually would take long builder-heavy levels as lesser of evils compared to levels like "We All Fall Down" or even "With a Twist of Lemmings Please" that require* super-repetitive skill assignments, or certain levels involving timed bombers.  But maybe others find them at least offering some sort of challenge over the long builder-heavy levels that mainly challenge one's patience?

*Yes, we've established in challenge threads that both can actually be done with far less than the amount of skills given, but you know what I mean in terms of the "standard" solutions.

[grams88]

It's funny that you mention (With a twist of lemming please) Ccexplore I would probably pick that one as the worst level to be honest as I remember having to get all the lemmings parachuting and also you have to get the lemmings bashing the right way at the end of the level.

Actually quite liked the Hunt a Nessy level, I can see how this level can be seen as annoying.

[mobius]

Honestly, skimming through the old "top 5 bottom 5" thread, I don't get a strong sense of consensus at all on the bottom 5 levels even for Lemmings 1, though it does seem like Hunt the Nessy was called out by quite a few.

I think personally I actually would take long builder-heavy levels as lesser of evils compared to levels like "We All Fall Down" or even "With a Twist of Lemmings Please" that require* super-repetitive skill assignments, or certain levels involving timed bombers.  But maybe others find them at least offering some sort of challenge over the long builder-heavy levels that mainly challenge one's patience?

*Yes, we've established in challenge threads that both can actually be done with far less than the amount of skills given, but you know what I mean in terms of the "standard" solutions.

 "With a Twist of Lemmings Please" is borderline imo; because if you take away the awful beginning part; the rest is a decent puzzle level.

All or nothing is near the top of my list in terms of bad design. It's nothing but irritating if you're not playing on a console with ability to select right or left facing lemmings, and pointless if you are.

I don't know if I've ever saw discussion of the worst levels from Genesis. "Everyone Turn left" [part 2 or 1 i don't remember] The dirt level that is basically a repeat of "Not as complicated as it looks, but easier and near the end of the game. Yeah; that level is stupid.

[Flopsy]

I also think With A Twist Of Lemming is an awful level to execute the solution on. The puzzle aspect of it is good but the execution lets it down.

I'm biased though because I played the cruel PS1 version on Lemmings which has no directional select.

Long heavy based builder levels just get boring for me when there are so many in a row. It's annoying near the end of Taxing when you get King of the Castle and Take A Running Jump and Hunt The Nessy quite near each other.

Everyone Turn Left from Genesis is very stupid, it would have made sense if Not As Complicated As It Looks was not in the game due to size constraints but it was in the game.
The only good thing to come out of Everyone Turn Left is the remake of that level for Lemmings Reunion.

[Wafflem]

Tricky 26 "I have a cunning plan" deserves a mention too. With a small space, a release rate of 99, 100% requirements and the subtle bridge wall trick, I don't even think it should have been a level due to fiddly execution. There are many levels out there that far better illustrate this trick without being obnoxiously annoying, like Windy 5 "How Do I Turn Back ?" of PimoLems, a simple level with a very good aesthetic design and a minimalistic skillset that does a better job at making the player think of what the trick is. The release rate is also reasonable.

Tricky 23 "From the Boundary Line" suffers similar problems as Tricky 26. This was the level that had me completely stumped and caused me to stop playing Lemmings for a while until I later eventually found the passwords online. Note that this was from a long time ago when we ran on modems and did not have any wireless internet, and I didn't get to use the internet that often.

That's all I can think of for now.

[607]

@DynaLem: that's interesting, creating a wall using builders... I don't think I actually ever used that.