[NeoLemmix] PimoLems [Difficulty: Medium]

[uberwolfie]

To address a particular point I've read here and there: yes at the time Dodo and I were messaging a lot and exchanging levels. We kind of inspired each other, which explains the similarities some people noticed between our two packs. We sometimes had similar ideas at the same time, like the main trick used in Sharin' the fuel and Lemmings on the Road to Ruin. Then we would send them to each others and be like "Whaaaat?" Ah, the nostalgia.
If I remember correctly, which I may not, DoveLems was released before PimoLems right?

Comparing the packs (any packs) feels a bit awkward I guess, each author having their own style and preferences. In the end it's only about the player's taste and the feeling may vary greatly from player to player. Diversity is what makes this world amazing after all

Hi Pieuw!
This is really interesting to know, and does answer those questions. Tbh I regret a bit pushing the comparison angle so much - my reaction to DoveLems says I think more about my mental state playing it than any objective feature of the levels...and I probably had as many criticisms of PimoLems ultimately

[Swerdis]

To continue the discussion from Davids level pack here:

I didn't create a complete pack by myself, but what I realize is that every creator deals differently with this subject. Some are eager to eliminate every trace of a backroute while others can live with them quite well and consider them legitimate alternative solutions. Namida for example, who has multiple packs, provides updates for his recent pack only (at least I understood him like that) So when you play an older pack of him and find a backroute, it will most likely been left in.

As a player, I don't mind backrouting at all. For me, it's often more fun than finding the intended solution. I ALWAYS compare my solutions to those of others (via youtube, if possible of course). This means there is no appeal for me to play a pack again when it's patched.

[David]

Yes, it's nice to find solutions that the author had not considered (especially for the player) ! But, when you are a beginner (not professional, anyway!) in the level creation, like me, pointing out backroutes allows me to progress, to learn new tricks... For now, I am keen to correct these "errors" (which are not really errors, of course) !

[kaywhyn]

I didn't create a complete pack by myself, but what I realize is that every creator deals differently with this subject. Some are eager to eliminate every trace of a backroute while others can live with them quite well and consider them legitimate alternative solutions. Namida for example, who has multiple packs, provides updates for his recent pack only (at least I understood him like that) So when you play an older pack of him and find a backroute, it will most likely been left in.

From what I understand, after a while namida considers his packs set in stone and so they're only updated just to remain compatible and playable in newer NL versions.

As a player, I don't mind backrouting at all. For me, it's often more fun than finding the intended solution. I ALWAYS compare my solutions to those of others (via youtube, if possible of course). This means there is no appeal for me to play a pack again when it's patched.

I think this is where you and I have common ground, since for me I'm content with solving the level in any way possible, whether I try to backroute or not. Level solved is level solved, right? And yes, I also think it's fun to compare my solution to other people's. I only watch after I solve the level myself. Only the levels where I felt my solution was hackish have me curious, so I watch those. Most of the time, watching other solutions has me going, "Wow, I can't believe I missed this much easier way. Mine is really complicated." I try to keep my solutions as simple as possible, but I seem to have the very bad habit of overcomplicating my solutions! I will likely not go back and play patched up levels either, since once a pack is completely solved for me, I'm pretty much done with it. In the same way I don't care for talismans at all.

[Pieuw]

Thank you David for what you said in the other discussion. I'm glad you're enjoying the pack!
You have already solved a lot of levels, I hope Hurricane won't be too hard on you.
Let Them Eat Cake was a glitch level in Lemmini, I guess it's been changed a lot for NeoLemmix!
From Pillar To Post seems to be a roadblock for a few people, it may be placed too early in the game.
Temple Ruins is not a hard level but if you have some skills left you probably backrouted it.
Broad Pit with two builders only ? Whoaaaaat?

About backroutes, as a player I always enjoy finding one. But when it obviously completely breaks the level and I'm missing an otherwise clever solution, I feel a bit disappointed.
When it comes to my own levels it hurts to watch savage backroutes, but it's also fun in a way. If the players are enjoying themselves, that's what counts after all!

[Swerdis]

I think this is where you and I have common ground, since for me I'm content with solving the level in any way possible, whether I try to backroute or not. Level solved is level solved, right? And yes, I also think it's fun to compare my solution to other people's. I only watch after I solve the level myself. Only the levels where I felt my solution was hackish have me curious, so I watch those. Most of the time, watching other solutions has me going, "Wow, I can't believe I missed this much easier way. Mine is really complicated." I try to keep my solutions as simple as possible, but I seem to have the very bad habit of overcomplicating my solutions! I will likely not go back and play patched up levels either, since once a pack is completely solved for me, I'm pretty much done with it.

Yeah, no dissens here I see it the same. As for the talismans, it depends on my mood and patience. I'm basically willing to get them - but when it takes too long (and I was able to solve the level before) I go to the next level. At my yt-channel, I have special playlists for the talisman-solutions, but they always remain incomplete.

[kaywhyn]

Oh yes, speaking of which, I forgot to say that you're doing an awesome job, Swerdis. As usual, I'm getting the Youtube notifications of when you have a video of Pimolems up. Looks like you're doing well in the One rank so far. I haven't seen any of them, since I would like to eventually try my hand at the NL version at some point, but I know based on the level number and video title that you're making great progress in the rank. That reminds me, I'm not sure if you've already played it, but if I'm not mistaken you should be coming up to the level Straightforward. That's the one, upon first glance, had me thinking, "Really, this is possible in just 1 minute?" I would like to know if you had a similar reaction once you reach it and have played and solved it.

@David Yes, just like Pieuw said you're doing quite well too! Good luck in the Hurricane rank, the final main rank of the pack. It's a bit surprising that you're stuck on Hurricane 1 though. It might be due to the very high RR, but it's really not that difficult. At the same time, it's not trivial. Pretty much almost every level in the rank isn't easy from what I remember.

Wow, all of you guys who are currently playing through Pimolems are inspiring me to play this pack again soon, but for NL! Most likely once I get all my planned LPs done. And Pieuw, I would like to LP this pack once I get to it, so I'll give both you and Icho a link once my videos go up, although I believe Icho already gets notifications from me when my Youtube videos go up?

[David]

kaywhyn : hey, it's funny ! In the rank One, I'm stuck at the Straightforward level, while the previous levels didn't give me much problem... I have an idea on the solution (I see only one possibility so as not to take too much time), but I can not manage to achieve it ... But I don't give up, I always end up getting there !!!

Do you find that the Hurricane 1 level isn't that difficult ? I spent time there, but to no avail. Same, I will not give up...

I should also record the replays ! It's interesting to show them to the creator/author of the pack !

[Swerdis]

That's really funny. I'm stuck in the same level at the moment.  This level looks almost exactly the same as "The Brick" of MazuLems (that also has a time limit). Which I solved already, so I looked into my old video to find an approach. But unfortunately, the solutions seems to be an entirely different one. But I'm working on it.

For me, the replays are also actually the best way to "collect" all my solved levels into one entity. The green checkmarks within the game don't work for me since there are always new versions of the game.

[David]

For me, the replays are also actually the best way to "collect" all my solved levels into one entity. The green checkmarks within the game don't work for me since there are always new versions of the game.

I like the idea !

This level looks almost exactly the same as "The Brick" of MazuLems (that also has a time limit). Which I solved already, so I looked into my old video to find an approach. But unfortunately, the solutions seems to be an entirely different one. But I'm working on it.

I don't know this level yet ... Maybe soon ...

[kaywhyn]

kaywhyn : hey, it's funny ! In the rank One, I'm stuck at the Straightforward level, while the previous levels didn't give me much problem... I have an idea on the solution (I see only one possibility so as not to take too much time), but I can not manage to achieve it ... But I don't give up, I always end up getting there !!!

That's the spirit, David! I like perseverance and determination.

Do you find that the Hurricane 1 level isn't that difficult ? I spent time there, but to no avail. Same, I will not give up...

It is difficult, but it's not as difficult as it looks. You'll see that once you're successful in solving Hurricane 1 that there are much worse than that later in the rank.

That's really funny. I'm stuck in the same level at the moment.  This level looks almost exactly the same as "The Brick" of MazuLems (that also has a time limit). Which I solved already, so I looked into my old video to find an approach. But unfortunately, the solutions seems to be an entirely different one. But I'm working on it.

Haha dang, makes it even more hilarious I brought up the Straightforward level, since both you and David are there. Don't give up! You guys can do it. There are harder levels than this later on in the One rank. As the title suggests, the level really is straightforward. As for my hint:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think it's obvious that you will need to compress the crowd. What should also be obvious is that no basher will be able to bash through all of the wall completely due to the time limit, and so you'll need to find a way to stop that basher with the other two worker climber lemmings you sent ahead. Instead, what's most important is that you make sure the bashers (you will need to use all 3) finish before anyone turns around. Then, once you manage to figure this out, it's all about releasing the crowd at the right time so that no one turns around before 2 of the bashers break through completely 

For me, the replays are also actually the best way to "collect" all my solved levels into one entity. The green checkmarks within the game don't work for me since there are always new versions of the game.

Whenever there's an update, levels that have changed will be indicated by an orange checkmark if you already solved the level before. What it really means is that there's a possibility that your replay might have broken. Here, I would run a mass replay check, and if the text file says "pass" for the level, then there's nothing else you need to do. Otherwise, if it fails, it means you need to resolve the new level.

[David]

There are harder levels than this later on in the One rank. As the title suggests, the level really is straightforward.

That's it ! I just succeeded.
Thank you ! It wasn't really difficult, finally ! So, I had found the right way, but I was missing only one thing :

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I forgot to "compress the crowd !!!"

.

[Swerdis]

Did it, finally :-) By the way, if Pieuw reads here: Can you tell me where you have this song from? It's by far the best track in this pack - I love it

[kaywhyn]

Great job to the both of you! As you both have probably seen, it's not a hard level. Rather, it's a hard level only due to the very strict time limit. More often than not, the clock is your worst enemy on this level. @Swerdis, I don't know what you were doing before your successful attempt, but I'm guessing it was simply due to you running out of time. Of course, without the very strict time limit Straightforward would be way too easy.

In any case, keep up the great work, both of you! Doing quite well here, and I'm certainly impressed

[Swerdis]

No, it wasn't just the time limit. I guess I'm just not used to trap a crowd between two blockers anymore This happens so rarely...