Author Topic: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)  (Read 23377 times)

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Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2015, 10:58:27 PM »
I'm not sure if this one's another backroute or if I've hit the intended solution now. However, I did save 30% here and have a couple of diggers left over...
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Offline Crane

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2015, 11:20:16 PM »
That might take some thought, as it's quite close to the intended solution.  I'll figure something out though.

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Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2015, 11:29:57 PM »
I probably wouldn't've found that very quickly had I not found the backroutes in earlier versions. I don't know exactly what your intended solution is, but if it's that close, and the backroute isn't too easily-found, sometimes it's better to leave them in. Trying to force one single solution can often reduce the fun of a level (though without knowing the intended solution exactly, I can't say for sure whether it'd do so for this level).
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Offline Crane

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2015, 12:44:17 AM »
I'll keep that in mind - thanks namida.  I'll post the intended solution once the competition is over though.  The thing is, I think the backroute is a little easier to find than the intended solution.

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Offline bsmith

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2015, 03:22:12 AM »
Solution to Lemming Mashed Potato Facility V2. I'm fairly sure this one's a backroute, unless...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This solution could probably also be modified to save one or two extra lemmings.
That is an impressive backroute.  The digger I removed was supposed to be a decoy skill - while making my level I never thought about using the digger where you did.  I could easily modify the level so that my solution uses only one platformer, but that won't stop your backroute.

Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2015, 03:31:25 AM »
One approach that might work is...
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However, this could arguably impact the aesthetic quality of the level, or perhaps interfere with the intended solution depending on what exactly it is.
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Offline Nepster

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2015, 08:53:37 AM »
Solution for Tough Call V4:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Solution to Lemming Mashed Potato Facility V2:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Electroshock:
Still no solution, that uses the tricks I wanted. Crane's solution is getting closer, though. The next version replaces the builder by a platformer and has several other slight terrain changes.

Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2015, 06:23:33 PM »
Lemming Mashed Potato Facility V3, my solution is fairly similar to the previous one.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Electroshock V4, likewise, my solution is just a variation on my previous one.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2015, 09:48:01 AM »
Tough Call V5, something fairly similar to my previous solutions still works. It's not as overkill on the saved amount though - it only saves slightly above the requirement. However, the similarity to solutions you've said are backroutes, as well as...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
make me think it's probably still a backroute.
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Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2015, 01:38:03 PM »
Tough Call V6. Not sure how effective these changes were; almost-the-same solution still works.
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Offline Crane

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2015, 02:23:32 PM »
Bummer!  Maybe I do need the arrows after all.  I think I have an idea as to the fix now though.  I just hope I'm not destroying the level's fun factor.  Thanks for your relentless testing namida.

Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2015, 02:37:46 PM »
My solution would still have worked with one-way-left arrows (but not with one-way-downs). Whether it could be adjusted to work in the presence of one-way-downs, I'm not sure.
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Offline Crane

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2015, 09:51:35 PM »
I was considering one-way right arrows, but there's an annoying mechanic where a basher or miner will stop a digger even if they are facing the wrong way, and hence allow for a means to trap the lemmings.  Honestly I'm not sure how to stop it.

Offline namida

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2015, 12:52:52 AM »
With a miner, that's to be expected (it's a bit more surprising that a basher allows this). The reason this couldn't (most of the time) happen under DOS Lemmings, is that the check is "is the lemming currently inside a one-way walls area" - if they're merely standing on it, but not inside it, they'll take one swing, hit terrain the wrong way, and turn around. NeoLemmix still implements similar logic, but one critical difference is that one way wall trigger areas are automatically "cleaned up" - if there's no solid terrain pixel at a given coordinate, any one way wall trigger area on that pixel will be removed.

The most obvious way to notice that is, if you destroy part of a one way wall, then use a builder inside the destroyed area, on DOS, the builder's bridge becomes one-way wall. In NeoLemmix, it does not. This can be thought of as that one-way-wall areas are part of the terrain itself, not objects (this is completely inaccurate from a technical point of view, but is a very good way of explaining how they seem to work for the end user).
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Offline Crane

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Re: Official Level Design Contest #5 (Playing Phase - Discussion Topic)
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2015, 01:02:53 PM »
Well, if you dig through down arrows, or one-way arrows pointing against the lemming's direction, then the lemming will bash once (without breaking any terrain) and stop.  Just means I have to think more deeply about patching things, although I'll most likely leave it until after the competition now.