NeoLemmix version of "Copycat Lemmings"

[Essman]

The cause of this is basically that, I assumed that they'd be listed in the XML file as "RightArrows" since one-way-lefts are "LeftArrows", but they're actually listed as "RightArrow" (no S on the end). Thus, the convertor didn't recognize them at all. I'll upload another update soon - might just give it a bit longer to see if any other issues surface first.

Damn, I was trying to write the tool too fast and didn't test it enough. I can change it to "RightArrows" if you want. Or maybe it's too late.

[Wafflem]

Off-topic but Copycat-related, but I've always wondered, where did that guy and cat/beast hybrid thingy come from? Are these original characters created by Essman, or did they come from a show or something?

Everything was guaranteed unoriginal! Those images are from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Why_Does_the_Sun_Shine%3F_(The_Sun_Is_a_Mass_of_Incandescent_Gas)&_%28The_Sun_Is_a_Mass_of_Incandescent_Gas%29=
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Oso

Thanks!

Also, in Cheapo, I think there was one with a lemming's head on a human body. Where did that come from?

[namida]

It's literally a one-character change in the source code of my convertor to make it look for "RightArrow" instead, so it's no huge deal. However, it might be beneficial if anyone else wants to make use of the extracted files and doesn't expect that abnormality. Just let me know either way.

As for the styles, rather than ask you to make sure whatever info I decide would be handy is present, I'm going to make LemSet automatically generate the required information when it runs (some of it might actually be easier to make NeoLemmix use directly, rather than apply at conversion-time, even). So, don't worry too much about that either. The biggest thing is the screen start Y position, since there's no real way around that.

[Essman]

Also, in Cheapo, I think there was one with a lemming's head on a human body. Where did that come from?

I drew all the lemmings pictures, like that head. The body is from Victoria Adams of the Spice Girls. The original source of that image is lost in time.

[Essman]

It's literally a one-character change in the source code of my convertor to make it look for "RightArrow" instead, so it's no huge deal. However, it might be beneficial if anyone else wants to make use of the extracted files and doesn't expect that abnormality. Just let me know either way.

As for the styles, rather than ask you to make sure whatever info I decide would be handy is present, I'm going to make LemSet automatically generate the required information when it runs (some of it might actually be easier to make NeoLemmix use directly, rather than apply at conversion-time, even). So, don't worry too much about that either. The biggest thing is the screen start Y position, since there's no real way around that.

OK, the latest update of the level extractor has the fixed Y position and uses RightArrows:
https://github.com/spadapet/cheaplevel/blob/master/Publish/CheapLevel.zip?raw=true

If you don't really need the style object types in the level XML file, then I won't add it yet. It's just not trivial because the style file might be around when doing the extraction.

[namida]

I need to get the information on the style from somewhere, but it makes more sense for me to do that myself when converting the style. This way, I don't need to ask for an update whenever I realise "oh hey, there's this other piece of information I need too" - for example, I realised that when dealing with horizontally flipped objects, the original width of them may be important (since due to format limitations, some need to be padded a bit with blank space - all terrain pieces and objects need to have a width divisible by 8 in NeoLemmix, since this was a limitation that existed in the DOS formats (virtually all of NeoLemmix's file formats are just modified / extended versions of the DOS Lemmings formats; the only major exception is the level format which is completely custom - and with that being said, for a long time it used a level format too that was just an extended version of the DOS one, but eventually it got to the point where this was no longer practical)). Chances are more things will come up, so if I just handle it on my end in the tools I'm making/using, it's less work for you and less waiting time for me.


One other thing - did you ever have a proper logo for Copycat Lemmings? Just thinking that if you do, I could put that into the title screen, instead of the crudely-drawn one that's there at the moment. Obviously it's not a huge deal if you don't.

[namida]

I've put "Attempt 3" up now. This one fixes the one-way right issue in Taxing 19 (and any other levels that have one-way-rights). Some horizontally-flipped objects may still be very slightly out-of-line; but I would think that at this point, any level that isn't impossible (or overly-easy) due to mechanics differences (most notably the diagonal-gap difference) should be in a completely playable, if maybe not quite perfect, state by now.

[Wafflem]

Also - if you prefer it over the Amiga musics (I'll get around to including the genuine Copycat / Cheapo ones eventually!), the music pack from either Orig or LPI will both work perfectly fine with this.

Hm, they don't seem to work and still play the Amiga musics.

I downloaded those from the NeoLemmix website.

[Essman]

I'll check out the other ones soon; as for Fun 27, I'm not sure whether this is what Essman intended, but it's definitely the same in the authentic version of Copycat Lemmings.

I intended that to give a little bit of help to perceptive people.

[Essman]

One other thing - did you ever have a proper logo for Copycat Lemmings? Just thinking that if you do, I could put that into the title screen, instead of the crudely-drawn one that's there at the moment. Obviously it's not a huge deal if you don't.

There's no logo. I was more interested in learning how to program

[namida]

Also - if you prefer it over the Amiga musics (I'll get around to including the genuine Copycat / Cheapo ones eventually!), the music pack from either Orig or LPI will both work perfectly fine with this.

Hm, they don't seem to work and still play the Amiga musics.

I downloaded those from the NeoLemmix website.

You did rename them to CopycatLemmingsNeo_Music.dat, right?

[Wafflem]

Renamed them, and works now, thanks!

[namida]

Remember when trying to use a music pack with (Neo)Lemmix: the filename (excluding the extension) should always be the same as the EXE, with "_Music.dat" on the end. (With that being said, not all players support them - for example, LPIII doesn't.)

[ccexplore]

One mechanics difference that might actually come up is with the diagonally-adjacent pixels thing. In Lemmix and NeoLemmix at least, a lemming could slip through a gap like this (with X representing where there's a pixel of terrain):

      XXXXXX
      XXXXXX
      XXXXXX
      XXXXXX
      XXXXXX
      XXXXXX
XXXXXX
XXXXXX
XXXXXX
XXXXXX
XXXXXX
XXXXXX

However, in Copycat Lemmings and Cheapo, they can't fall through such gaps. This might make a difference on some levels; indeed this would seem to be the case on both Tricky 8 and Tricky 14. I don't really want to make a mechanics change though, so I might see if Essman is okay with making slight alterations to these levels to account for this difference.

Hmm, doesn't seem like it'd be that hard to make a mechanics change option for this, I may be able to help.  That said, there are enough other subtle differences here and there that I'm sure it's inevitable to run into other cases where it'd be simpler to just alter the affected level anyway.

[namida]

I doubt it'd be hard to modify the mechanics to make an option for that (though if I was going to do that, it'd almost certainly go hand-in-hand with the 80px fall distance which I guess would then get renamed "Cheapo mode" or something). But, I'd rather avoid having too much different mechanics sets on the engine - currently, outside of gimmicks (which are more a one-level thing, I'm sure you've at least seen how they work once or twice by now), there's only two mechanics-changing options - normal fall distance vs 80px fall distance (which was only implemented for Cheapo purposes) which is set on a per-level basis, and timed bombers vs untimed bombers which can only be set for packs as a whole.