I'll have time to look at the code together on Saturday, November 29th. Does that suit you? I'll have time all day and you can pick the time.

-- Simon

Quote from: Crane on November 17, 2025, 10:23:19 PM

Note about kaywhyn's R3

I was going to dig away the left pillar to show off, but it's actually pretty dangerous because the lemmings follow the climber, and it risks causing them to splat as they fall down the digger shaft that's tunnelled to set up the miner.

Indeed, you're correct about this alternative. It does work, but it cuts it very close. I do plan to make a no pickups version of the level for my Lemmings Memories pack and I'll have to check if the alternative still works. I do plan to increase the Lemming count and maybe different entrance arrangements, but even then I could always reduce or even eliminate the possibility by

Spoiler

making the catwalk shorter

QuoteP.S. I'm pretty sure this is the intended solution to kaywhyn's R1!

Yup, intended! Great job! I knew this one would be no problem for you since you use something similar in Lemmings Cranium but here I added a bit of a twist to it so that it's still pretty nasty for those who aren't aware of the main trick. Hence, it could very well still be a final rank level for my pack, though maybe the difficulty is drastically reduced thanks to there not being that many possibilities? I'll leave it as a final rank level for now and wait for further feedback!

Spoiler

This one actually has two intended ways, since the basher and miner are interchangeable!

Now to solve your patched levels when the time comes!

Note about kaywhyn's R3

I was going to dig away the left pillar to show off, but it's actually pretty dangerous because the lemmings follow the climber, and it risks causing them to splat as they fall down the digger shaft that's tunnelled to set up the miner.

P.S. I'm pretty sure this is the intended solution to kaywhyn's R1!

@Crane

R1 - Backroute as you might had guessed. Doh, that was a dumb on my part! I thought it was all aligned perfectly on the right side when it was actually offset by a pixel. I've fixed that now for V3 and thanks for catching that! Apparently I forgot to check the x-coordinates this time!

R2 - Backroute as well. Added a button for V2.

R3 - Intended! Great job! Now to make a version without pickups that hopefully won't be broken for my Lemmings Memories pack once I take them out, as I only plan to use them as a last resort for backroute fixing!

Alternatively,

Spoiler

You can dig the left pillar on the far left side with the climber instead of the right pillar. That works too. I thought about blocking this alternative off but I decided to leave it in as another nice way of solving the level

Quote from: Crane on November 17, 2025, 04:46:57 PMThese are my solutions... the only levels I haven't yet beaten are, unsurprisingly, Armani's!

The solutions for my levels are all fine! 

This is truly a problem that spans back to the beginning.  LARSPACK, which is likely the first Customize Lemmings level pack ever published, has an unsolvable level.  Oops!  Of course, they didn't have replay files back then, but the underlying problem is the same: "Did you test it?"

This is also why I'm trying (with limited success) to get authors to submit solutions for their level packs on the Lemmings Level Database.  It's not fun playing a difficult level when you're not sure there is actually a solution.

These are my solutions... the only levels I haven't yet beaten are, unsurprisingly, Armani's!

Totally agree here! 

A confirmation from the author that the level is indeed solvable, or a replay checker result file would be enough for me as a confirmation, but yeah level and replay should always come together in pairs!

Yea, I feel the need to make this, especially as it's pretty long overdue. I think I remember Icho wanted to make a topic on this from a while back as well. It's going to be a rant of sorts, so make of it what you will!

Before I go on this rant, do note that I have yet to make and release a level pack of my own (it's currently a WIP), but I've been making levels for NL for the past 4, almost 5, years. This is long enough that I can offer this sound advice for any NL level/pack creator, and that is always make a solving replay for any completed levels you make and keep a master replay set for your levels/pack! In this way, in case a player who plays your level/pack has doubts on its solvability, which is really easy to do especially on really difficult levels as a lot of the time they give the appearance of an "impossible" level, you at least have proof that the level is 100% possible and that you the author didn't make a mistake when you made the level. You would also be able to send a replay of the level if requested by the player. This practice of always making a solving replay for completed levels is one that I've been doing right from the start of my level designing career, ever since I got into level making all those 4 years ago. Yes, I know that testing your own levels can sometimes be a lot of work, but it's a really good habit! We fortunately also have the mass replay check tool, and it's always a good idea to run replays of your levels/pack through it to make sure that everything is fine on your end!

All rightie, now starts my rant. Nothing irritates me more than when I'm playing levels made by someone else that turned out to be impossible after all, especially as I have wasted a lot of time in the past playing such levels that turned out to not be solvable! Icho can also tell you from his experiences, and he can sing you a song about playing impossible levels, asking the author for a replay, only to not get one because he/she didn't have one for the level saved.

Recently, I privately pre-tested a pack that's now cancelled and encountered a level that, while it was solvable via the normal solution, it had an impossible talisman! => I wasted about an hour trying to obtain something that was made impossible by the level design. This makes me wonder if the creator somehow didn't test the level properly for the talisman and/or put that talisman by mistake, as it was the only one for the pack. At the same time, the only way I saw that the talisman would be possible is if the Lemmings were able to step up into the containment area and hence be safe as they would no longer be in danger, but instead the Lemmings turn around because the wall is too high for them to be able to ascend it, and you can't afford to let that happen since they would walk out the level side and die.

So yes, this advice extends to and includes making a solving replay for talismans as well should you include any for your level/pack! I even asked if Armani was able to obtain the talisman, and when I was supplied his replay for the level, he didn't as well. The reason for this is I know he always goes for them, so the fact that he didn't obtain the talisman either supports that the talisman is indeed impossible to obtain.

Another thing that recently occurred last week that finally got me to make this topic was when a recently registered member who had been lurking silently on the Forums for the past several years posted and inquired about two levels in another user's level packs topic that they couldn't solve because the levels seem to not provide enough skills in order to make them solvable. While I haven't yet posted in the topic that the user posted in, I silently took a look at the levels they mentioned and I too couldn't solve them => I wasted a lot of time on two levels that don't seem to be solvable at all! Once again, another case of an author not properly testing the levels!

I definitely can't emphasize enough the importance of making a solving replay for levels you make and then keeping a master replay set for your levels/pack safe somewhere on your machine. Heck, make a backup of your replays/master replay set so that in case you accidentally delete it you at least still have a copy! I can honestly say that for many of my levels that I made all those years ago that I have begun to forget some of the details of my intended solutions, and this makes me very glad that I have made solving replays for them! I myself have yet to encounter someone who has played my levels and asking me for a solving replay because they're not sure about their solvability. 

Hey LemFan, good to hear from you! I did actually start playing Lemmingshades but as you say, the difficulty ramps up quickly and became too much for my level-solving skills, unfortunately! I cleared the first two ranks but had to give up towards the end of Yellow (third rank). I'll hopefully return to it at some point but for now, I'm playing your Lemmings Rundown pack. Almost done the first two ranks of that one. I really do like a lot of your level design, but I'm actually not that keen on Very Hard/Extreme packs; you might find that's one reason a lot of people don't seem to have played them - I suspect there're only a handful of folks on this forum capable of solving stuff at that degree of difficulty.

RE: LemFanLems I, are you able to confirm that my modifications to your Brutal 18 and Chaos 3 levels are necessary, or do you have some solution for those that I missed?