Quote from: mobius on April 02, 2026, 12:39:09 AMin case any levels by ISteve are being used; The Top Shelf; all these are ruined by instant bombers ... if the levels are adjusted then it wouldn't matter reinstituting a timed bomber.

Thanks for clarifying this, mobius.

I'm pretty sure we've opted not to include levels by Insane Steve that are duplicates from his main level pack (although this decision isn't by any means final yet), so this may not be an issue anyway, but good to know just in case this particular level is ROTL-exclusive.

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Quote from: WillLem on April 01, 2026, 11:57:13 PMOne important difference: RetroLemmini supports optional Timed Bombers. Levels which feature the Bomber skill should ideally not require the skill to be used within the first 5 seconds of the first lem spawning. Should this come up, the ported level may need a small layout tweak to ensure that the standard solution is still possible with Timed Bombers.

A few levels come to mind off the bat: at least two levels by BulletRide (not sure if any of them actually ended up in ROTL in any version however...), also possibly a level by Fleech. And in case any levels by ISteve are being used; The Top Shelf; all these are ruined by instant bombers (if not adjusted in some way), the latter example turns out to have a rather simple fix which was applied in his big pack. If the levels are adjusted then it wouldn't matter reinstituting a timed bomber.

Quote from: Proxima on April 01, 2026, 11:34:34 PMstill leaves 287
...
So the process of splitting the pack will also be a selection process -- some levels won't make the cut any more.

Easier repeats are another gimme. Any stats on the level count once these are removed?

Also, are any other levels featured in other packs, or is it just the ones from Mazu, Insane Steve and Clam?

Quote from: Proxima on April 01, 2026, 11:34:34 PMlevels will need to work on both engines, and I'm not sure exactly what set of features are available in RL.

At a very quick glance:

NL/RL shared level properties

Max level size: 3200 x 3200
Release Rate: 1-99 (locked RR supported)
Time limits (<= 99 minutes, infinite time supported)
Max lem count: 999
Normal lems only (no zombies or neutrals)
Classic 8 skillset only (<=99 thereof, infinite skills supported)

Available objects:

Fire
Water
Continuous traps (i.e. one-shot is not supported)
One-Way-Arrows (all directions are supported)
Force field left/right (essentially the Blocker effect)

One important difference: RetroLemmini supports optional Timed Bombers. Levels which feature the Bomber skill should ideally not require the skill to be used within the first 5 seconds of the first lem spawning. Should this come up, the ported level may need a small layout tweak to ensure that the standard solution is still possible with Timed Bombers.

Other physics differences are likely to be insignificant, or easy to handle when porting.

Quote from: Proxima on April 01, 2026, 11:34:34 PMthe first two packs will use only the originals plus a handful of L2 styles, so it might be good to do the same in the third pack for consistency.

Strongly agreed. This project should only feature OG / L2 styles ideally. Level contributions using other sets should be remade, wherever possible.

Important note: RetroLemmini does support tileset mixing, so if a level uses mixed styles it can be ported.

Quote from: Proxima on April 01, 2026, 11:34:34 PMWell, we are producing a new version, so ... this will be version 5.

Sure, but we're working from version 4.0 - that's significant, and should be understood by all concerned. Also, this project is intended to replace v4.0, not follow it. I'll make that clearer in the above post.

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Quote from: WillLem on April 01, 2026, 10:43:27 PM1) The existing pool of levels (as identified by Proxima here) should be split into two packs: Revenge of the Lemmings and Return of the Lemmings

Yes, with some caveats 

The RL version of RotL contains four levels not found in either NL v2 or NL v4 (the versions on my spreadsheet), so we have a pool of 341 levels to draw from. Excluding the levels shared with MazuLems (16), Insane Steve's World (17) and Clammings (21) still leaves 287. WillLem has talked about 2 packs of 120 each, and while we don't have to aim for a round number, that feels like a reasonable target (especially considering the original Lemmings has 120 levels, so we have an idea what a pack that size feels like).

So the process of splitting the pack will also be a selection process -- some levels won't make the cut any more. It might be that this process ends up with more, or less, than 240 levels we want to include, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

Quote2) Once these are done, we can then focus on the development of the third in the series: Lemmings Assemble

I'm not entirely sold on the proposed pack titles, but they'll do for now while we talk about plans.

We should decide what restrictions we want to impose for levels in the third pack. Since we want the pack to have NL and RL versions, levels will need to work on both engines, and I'm not sure exactly what set of features are available in RL. Are we restricted to the original 8 skills, and objects that existed in L1?

I know that RL has a total of 33 graphics styles, and we might not even allow all of these, as the first two packs will use only the originals plus a handful of L2 styles, so it might be good to do the same in the third pack for consistency.

Quote4) The NeoLemmix port will be the one being worked on primarily (so, v4.0 as it is currently).

Well, we are producing a new version, so it would be silly to refer to it with the same version number -- this will be version 5.

ATTENTION!

Please read the overall proposal and vote in the poll. Thank you!

We need to be very clear at this stage exactly what's being proposed, so that there is no confusion when we seem to be referring to different "versions" of the pack. The following is exactly what's being suggested, and ideally we need to all agree on this before we move forward with anything:

This project can be thought of as a 'community packs' project, consisting of level contributions from anyone who's ever made a custom lemmings level!

1) The existing pool of levels (as identified by Proxima here) should be split into two packs: Revenge of the Lemmings and Return of the Lemmings

2) Once these are done, we can then focus on the development of the third in the series: Lemmings Assemble

3) The outcome of this project is that we have one version of each of the above packs, ported to both NeoLemmix and RetroLemmini

4) The NeoLemmix port will be the one being worked on primarily (so, v4.0 as it is currently, which will be replaced by the result of this project). The NL version will be cross-ported to RetroLemmini as we go, keeping the two versions as identical as possible

5) All previous versions should then be considered obsolete, but can of course remain available in the forum archive

Do we all more or less agree on this? Please vote in the poll either way, thanks!

Please note that this topic has now been moved to the Lemmings Main board, hopefully to reduce/prevent any possible confusion regarding which engine it's for.

Quote from: Proxima on March 31, 2026, 03:19:21 PMThe levels unique to version 2 mostly fall into two categories: easy repeats of later levels; and levels by Martin Zurlinden, Clam Spammer and Insane Steve (which were removed from version 4 because these levels are available in MazuLems, Clammings and Insane Steve's World in NeoLemmix). I think WillLem is leaning towards leaving these levels out; certainly, if we want to reduce the pack to two packs of 120 each, 337 levels is a lot to work from, and cutting these out makes the task easier!

Thanks for investigating this, nice work! And sure, whatever we can do to get the level count down to 240 is fine by me. Obviously there's no need to remove all levels by these authors, but certainly if a large chunk of them are repeats from other packs, it seems a good way to get the numbers down initially.

Quote from: Proxima on April 01, 2026, 02:20:55 AMWe don't have to keep all the original seven rank names.

Strongly agreed. As far as my opinion goes, we can make up a completely new set if necessary.

Quote from: Proxima on April 01, 2026, 02:20:55 AMsince pack 2 is overall harder, we could do something like Ruckus - Frenzy - Berserk - Armageddon.

Frenzy and Berserk feel like they're both too similar (in terms of the difficulty level they might represent), and also too different (in terms of what the words describe). Ruckus, Frenzy and Armageddon all seem to refer to catastrophic happenings, whereas "Berserk" is more of a descriptive word. The difference is subtle and nuanced, but it is there.

If "Calm" has been used too many times, here are some possible alternatives that fit well with Ruckus - Frenzy - Armageddon:

Hubbub / Quibble / Quarrel / Scrap / Brawl (actually, this one could come after Ruckus)

or

Peace / Quiet

Quote from: Proxima on April 01, 2026, 02:20:55 AMalready been used by three other packs
...
has been used by four other packs. "Brutal" would be very good but it has been used twice

Honestly, I don't think we need to worry too much about rating names having been used elsewhere if they fit well with what we have.

That said, I'm open to coming up with completely new ideas and concepts for the rating names as long as they fit well as a "1 - 10 - 100 - 1000!" series.

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 01, 2026, 10:57:24 AMBefore any work goes towards Lemmings Assemble, however, I think it's best if WillLem first focuses on the two mini-packs of 120 levels each first.

Agreed. We should get the NL 4.0 version sorted first, and it should be the proposed 2 smaller packs. Assemble development can follow once we have this sorted.

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 01, 2026, 10:57:24 AMAfter those are done and maybe deciding on some more things on the third pack, then see if you still feel like it's best to collaborate our efforts on updating the V4.0 New Formats Nl version of RotL for Lemmings Assemble to closely resemble and follow.

Ah, perhaps there's a misunderstanding here; the proposal is indeed that we update the V4.0 New Formats NL version of ROTL. Did you think we meant something else? We should clarify this before moving any further ahead with anything. See the this post for exactly what's being proposed.

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 01, 2026, 10:57:24 AMyou also mentioned that people who want to contribute to the Lemmings Assemble pack are free to create levels for it. If so, it does sound like it'll be its own project independent of the New Formats NL version of RotL.

Again, please see this post for a response to this.

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 01, 2026, 10:57:24 AMUltimately, just remember that there's no rush or even any real urgency to do this

Agreed, but things do need to move or nothing will get done. I'm happy for the general pace to be slower than it would be if I was working on it alone, but I'll also probably push for regular, tangible progress wherever possible. It's probably a good idea to set small goals that we can tick off once they're achieved, and try not to go back over stuff we've already decided on.

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 01, 2026, 10:57:24 AMTo be clear, I think this project that WillLem proposed is a great idea. I just think it's best to focus on a few things at a time so as not to overwhelm oneself

Strongly agreed. Small achievable goals, little and often, is key to the success of this project for sure!

Quote from: roltemurto on April 01, 2026, 07:22:13 PMI get the "Warning: Could not read editor options from SLXEditorSettings.ini. Editor uses the default settings."

There should be an "ErrorLog.txt" in the root folder where SLXEditor lives.

Can you make the error happen, then post the resulting ErrorLog.txt here so I can figure out what's going wrong. Or, let me know if the file isn't being generated.

Thanks.

Do you have a link to this? Can't see any such game available online. Is it an offline game?

Quote from: WillLem on April 01, 2026, 01:38:24 AMGlad to hear it worked, thanks for reporting back quickly! I'll get a hotfix release out soon

Great news. Since you're still polishing it, I like to report another thing you may wanna look at;

I get the "Warning: Could not read editor options from SLXEditorSettings.ini. Editor uses the default settings."

This happens even though the folders and files are NOT read-only and the exe runs as administrator. I am not sure if it's related to my locale again, but I keep having to customize my settings each time.
This is what my updated ini file looks like;
# SLXEditor settings
 EditorMode          Auto
 DefaultAuthorName      E
 DefaultTemplate       
 ValidateWhenSaving     True
 Autosave               2
 AutosaveLimit          5
 PieceBrowserMode       ShowData
 AutoPinOGStyles        True
 PreferObjectName       False
 InfiniteScrolling      False
 ShowRandomButton       False
 UseAutostart           True
 GridSize               1
 GridColor              MidnightBlue
 TriggerAreaColor       Pink
 CustomMove             64
 Button_Tooltip         3

 Form_Maximized         True
 Form_Width             872
 Form_Height            469

 ShowAboutAtStartup     True
 ShowControlHints       True
 AllTabsExpanded        False
 HighlightGroups        False
 HighlightErasers       False

 LevelArrangerOpen      False
 LevelArrangerMaximized False
 LevelArrangerLocation  301,71
 LevelArrangerSize      2126,1089

 PieceBrowserOpen       False
 PieceBrowserMaximized  False
 PieceBrowserLocation   643,381
 PieceBrowserSize       1425,148

 Display                Triggers
 Display                Rulers
 Display                ScreenStart
 Display                Background


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