Done, thanks.

-- Simon

Quote from: WillLem on December 28, 2025, 04:13:27 AM"How to play L1" should also be simplified
get that information once they've clicked the relevant link

Hmm. It's possible to make extra topics: One for vanilla Lemmix (that tells you invisible hotkeys etc.), one for Amiga Emulation with the many choices, ..., then tie them together in How to Play L1. I'm sure you can condense it to half its size like that.

There is merit in seeing the full installation instructions at a glance, without indirection. Oh, that engine requires five steps to play. Oh, this runs in the browser and requires no installation.

The main worry is: Once you redirect to separate topics, those will be generally about the individual engine, not narrowly focused about getting L1 running in that engine. Maybe that's fine, at least you're now busy installing an engine that can later play L1.

You can try. We can always revert it if it sucks.

-- Simon

Quote from: WillLem on December 28, 2025, 04:10:01 AMDo we have an existing way to convert this [Cheapo] content to .nxlv (or .lvl or .ini)?

Not automatically! The problem is that Cheapo levels are saved as bitmaps, so it's hard to convert that back into individual pieces. (And many Cheapo tilesets never got converted to NL.) Unless you could somehow write a program to calculate the tile locations from the bitmap, the only way would be rebuilding every level manually.

Quote from: Simon on December 28, 2025, 03:35:26 AMBest: Duplicate How to play L1 and adapt it to the separate task of joining custom level culture, i.e., to both playing and editing.
...
I'll link to the result from here.

Good idea. If I get some time, I'll do this. I'd suggest keeping the list as easy-to-read as possible. We don't need to list lots and lots of features, we can just name the engine, link to it, and give a brief description which conveys the engine's main USP (very much like the OP in this topic, come to think of it).

Really, the "How to play L1" should also be simplified further. People want to see links to click and brief overviews, not big paragraphs of information. They can get that information once they've clicked the relevant link; the brief overview should tell them if it's a version they want, or not.

Quote from: Proxima on December 28, 2025, 04:03:13 AMCheapo, for example, had hundreds, maybe thousands, of levels made for it that have never been converted to more recent engines.

Do we have an existing way to convert this content to .nxlv (or .lvl or .ini)?

If not, this could be a good project for someone (I already have more than enough to deal with Lemmings-wise, but would be happy to support the project if someone else wants to take it on).

It's good to maintain a list (with short descriptions and links) to currently maintained engines, to help new arrivals connect with the content they are most likely to want.

But it's also good to keep these lists of older engines, as there are many reasons readers might want to check them out. Cheapo, for example, had hundreds, maybe thousands, of levels made for it that have never been converted to more recent engines.

This is now fixed (commit ec3ca87).

The players.ini file is saved when adding and deleting players, and any time global settings are saved (usually when closing dialogs and between screens). The list now persists between sessions, and it's no longer necessary to build the list manually in players.ini.

RetroLemmini 2.5 will be released soon with this fix included.

Note to self: I'm not sure why the original call to save the list was removed (in commit bace848), but adding it back in with reload set to true/false depending on the caller solves the problem.

I recommend to preserve this (2013 list of game engines) as it is, as an historic artifact. It's not a websearch landing pad, unlike the maintained How to Play L1 on Modern Computers.

It would be better to rewrite my half-baked How to Play and Create Custom Levels, then point to that rewrite from the 2013 list. But that's also from 2017, and I think it's good to rewrite from scratch these things every 5-10 years.

Best: Duplicate How to play L1 and adapt it to the separate task of joining custom level culture, i.e., to both playing and editing. The format of the post can still be like How to play L1. It always starts with installing some custom engine. But the choice/order/instructions of the engines will be different. Presumably CE/NL -> Lix -> RetroLemmini -> SuperLemmix (assuming you maintain that still) -> Golems (if that has custom level upload), eyeballed by how much attention these draw? You don't have to cover it all, nobody knows all of them by heat.

I'll do that in 2026 when I'm back at my main computer. Or you can spearhead it and I'll join the effort.

Either way, I'll link to the result from here.

Quote from: WillLem on December 28, 2025, 02:29:59 AMI'd also suggest that we point to this post from here as well.

"This post" is "How to play Lemmings (1991) on a modern PC" and the 2013 list already links there. It's only that the link has the older caption "How to play old Lemmings on a modern PC". Will update the link caption.

Quotemerge the two topics

I prefer to keep the duplication. Both posts are for newbies. The most common question is how to play L1, and the instructions for playing L1 should have have no clutter. Level editing is clutter. Lix is clutter.

-- Simon

Suggested update to the "SuperLemminiToo" block in the OP.

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RetroLemmini

A series of Lemmings engines developed in Java. The Lemmini series marries Amiga gameplay physics with the lush graphics included in Windows 95 Lemmings, complete with an upgraded UI.

• Choose and download either RetroLemmini (the currently-maintained and most up-to-date version), SuperLemminiToo, SuperLemmini, or Lemmini.
• For SuperLemmini or Lemmini, you need a copy of Lemmings for Windows 95 (SuperLemminiToo and RetroLemmini ships all resources already with itself.)
• Download DMA Lemmings & Oh No! More Lemmings (Remastered).

Differences between RetroLemmini, SuperLemminiToo, SuperLemmini, and Lemmini

Download RetroLemmini - WillLem's fork of SuperLemmini and the latest entry in the series, following on from the updates made by Charles in SuperLemminiToo.
• Writes the Timed Bomber option into the replay for cross-compatiblity when sharing replays with other players.
• Fixes several bugs from SuperLemmini and SuperLemminiToo.
• Includes a number of upgrades to the UI including additional hotkeys, alternative Menu graphics, and an easier-to-access debug mode.
• Everything is now packed into a single fully-portable and fully-customisable directory.

Download SuperLemminiToo - Charles's fork of SuperLemmini.
• Re-implements Timed Bombers as a user option: You can choose to play with instant or with timed bombers.
• Fixes several bugs from SuperLemmini.
• Includes a number of upgrades to the UI over SuperLemmini.
• Includes the WinLemm resources. You don't have to extract those yourself from WinLemm.

Download SuperLemmini - Tsyu's fork of Lemmini.
• Fixes a number of bugs from Lemmini.
• Offers a larger catalog of levels than Lemmini.
• Improves the UI of Lemmini.
• Bombers explode instantly. They don't have a countdown timer.

Download Lemmini from the original Lemmini website. This is the original platform in this series, developed by Volker Oth. It's no longer actively maintained.

Our SuperLemmini board offers for fanmade level packs, level editors, discussion, records tables and more.

Physics: Mostly inspired by Amiga Lemmings. Both graphics and physics are in high-resolution. Details will be different from DOS Lemmings.

Convenience: Fast forward, replays, direction select, forward frame-stepping. None of the Lemmini games support rewinding. When you make a mistake, restart the level, let it replay your correct actions, then interrupt the replay before your mistakes.

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Edit Simon: History that lead to this discussion:

geoo linked the 2013 list of games and editors.
WillLem suggested to improve the 2013 list.

Below is WillLem's original post. "This post" means the 2013 list.

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We should ideally update this post to include newer engines that are currently in development, and remove those that are now outdated and no longer maintained.

Suggested additions:

SuperLemmix
RetroLemmini
GoLems

Suggested removals:

Lemmini / SuperLemmini (certainly no need for both of these to be on here)
jLevelBuilder
Cheapo

I'd also suggest that we point to the L1 topic from here as well.

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EDIT: We could even merge the two topics into a single topic which links to all relevant ports/engines.etc.