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Messages - Strato Incendus

#826
Given that WillLem already suggested the terrain explodes and leaves behind a Bomber-like crater, Proxima's name "Dynamiter" seems much more fitting than "Creator", indeed! :thumbsup:

That said, I agree that it would be another case of "non-fatal alternative to a fatal skill", which is something namida ruled out in the starting post (probably in reference to the Lightsaberer, but in my book, this is still just the same idea in new clothing).

QuoteI also like the thought that there's still something new, and useful, that didn't even exist in Lemmings 2...

Yes, probably, but unless it's something like upward Digging or downward Building, i.e. a variation of something you can already do in NeoLemmix (even though you technically can't do either of those in L2, since both the Twister and Laser Blaster act differently than an actual upward Digger, and the Roper is very limited in its range, even though it can also go downward), I see the danger here of people coming up with random stuff that doesn't fit in organically with any of the skills we have so far - just for the sake of having something "new and different".

Ironically, L2 is a good demonstration of what happens when people come up with new skills for the sake of it. At the same time, in doing so, L2 is pretty likely to already have tested most of the new ground that can be discovered in a game like Lemmings.



The L2 skills that are still in the race at this point are all connected to existing mechanics in some way, while still offering something new:

- the Slider is reminiscent of the Floater in its main application, but also has similarities to the Climber in other regards, and interacts extremely well with Jumpers and Shimmiers, by extension also with Bombers and Stoners

- the Bazooker / Mortar creates a crater like a Bomber, just at a distance

- the Spear Thrower is somewhere in between Builder, Platformer, and Stoner, but again at a distance

- the Runner is in between a Walker and a Jumper (and therefore has the least new options to offer, I think)


To illustrate this latter point, I have attached the level "Besser du rennst" (=You better run!) from my in-development, L2-inspired pack Lemmings Hall of Fame (and the replay showing the intended solution). This is a typical application of the Runner as it is being used in Lemmings 2: The Tribes - and the attached level is meant to show that this can be accomplished in a perfectly fine way by just using the Jumper on its own (which you usually need on the skill panel to interact with Runners anyway).


Solution

The pioneer has to be separated from the ground and take the route on the left (which would also offer a good opportunity for using a Slider on the wall on the left, I would just have to make the gap a little narrower then, so that a Jumper could get all the way across :P ). He needs to reach the one-way wall and bash through it before the crowd arrives, lest they would turn around and fall into the water. The pioneer will then of course walk towards the water, but he can comfortably seal it up with a Builder.

Granted, as we've established for the other skills, L2 may not have used the Runner to its full potential. But in contrast to the Laser Blaster, Slider, Bazooker / Mortar, and Spear Thrower, we actually have custom-level user data for the Runner, due to its presence in Lix.

People have pointed out how it can be useful in Multiplayer levels, but in single-player games like L2 or NeoLemmix, a level like the attached on is usually the main application of the Runner.


Maybe this is enough of a justification to drop the Runner from the list, and continue narrowing it down? ;)

I do want to open a separate thread for the discussion of possible physics of a (Spear) Thrower skill, though. I think this should be done separately from a discussion about a destructive range skill, like the Mortar / Bazooker, because for the time being, we need to assume we're only going to get either of the two (range construction OR range destruction).
#827
QuoteWhat about The Creator - a lemming that creates a temporary bit of terrain that has a countdown timer, and when that timer reaches zero the terrain either explodes, leaving a bomber-sized hole, or turns into another lemming.

Do you seriously think this will fly with the people who voted for the removal of radiation and slowfreeze? :P (And the removal of timed bombers much earlier...)

QuoteOr The SuperSwimmer - a lemming that can swim in midair, and leaves a trail of terrain behind them.

Given that Swimmers move horizontally, what would be the difference to a Platformer? ;)
#828
In Development / Re: Lemmings Hall of Fame
April 06, 2020, 10:25:00 PM
I had a creative run this weekend. Now that the Jumper is available for testing, that was precisely the kick-start this pack needed! :thumbsup:

(Some of these are also a little older, but I hadn't shown them to you yet, so I'll simply put those up as well. ;) )


Jump around


Let's get it started


Start me up


Can't hold us

Some levels will also be plays on original Lemmings 2: The Tribes levels. Can you recognise the following two? ;)


Take a bow


Cleopatra

Here's the final level of the pack:

Spoiler

Hall of Fame


...and some more in a couple of other tribes!


Ruins of Athens


Summer Night City


Walpurgisnacht


Besser du rennst


A hard day's knight


Bloodbound


Being for the benefit of Mr. Kite


Welcome to the freak show


The show must go on
#829
Thanks a lot, WillLem! :thumbsup: Indeed, they work perfectly!
#830
Just a quick question to revive this debate: If namida's plan is indeed to release this 20th and final skill with the next odd-number version of NeoLemmix after the 12.9 which introduces the Jumper, this would be version 12.11 in November, if my memory serves me right.

How soon would we have to decide on a skill to keep up with this very ambitious schedule? Considering that not only programming and sprite-crafting, but also extensive physics discussions would go along with that.

So far, it seems to me that all skills still in the race are Lemmings 2: The Tribes skills? Meaning Spear Thrower, Slider, Laser Blaster, Bazooker / Mortar, Runner.

As I said before, I would also support the Archer or Roper as a more versatile version of the Spear Thrower, but we would have to find a way to make those skills work without the double-assignments that namida has already ruled out.
#831
On a similar note, I always preferred the old version of the skill panel icons, in particular for the Replay icon. The old "R" had a little glare / reflection on it, the new one looks quite dull. I always replace the panel icons with my preferred ones after every update; however, in high-res mode, I either have to use the new "dull" R, or the size is completely off.

I've attached the one I mean (the blue and red R for replay looks different, the rest is the same). I like these replay Rs because this glare is on all the standard Lemmings letters anyway, so I would like the replay icon to be consistent with that. ;)
#832
NeoLemmix Main / Re: EXPERIMENTAL BUILD: Jumper
April 05, 2020, 01:52:35 PM
I haven't updated yet precisely because I want to avoid such ingame errors, but so far, Jumpers don't seem to interact with one-way fields - when jumping towards a one-way field with force in the opposite direction, Jumpers just go right through them without turning around.

This is surprising, because when doing the same with Blockers, the Jumper turns as expected. ???
#833
NeoLemmix Levels / Re: Casualemmings 2.0
April 05, 2020, 11:49:31 AM
So, I quickly glanced over the level lest, and I noticed the level "Super Mecha Death Gators" seems to have been cut from the pack. Perhaps I can help you restore it, though... ;)

Spoiler

If this is just down to the ONML Rock lizard trap and the ONML Bubble lightning trap now being too large to merge with the crocodiles in a visually pleasing way - I've just recreated both traps the way they formerly were and put them into my strato_generalmd tileset. ;)

Since with these "addendum" styles that people only create for specific levels in their packs to work it's not advised for other people to use them in their levels, it would probably not be such a good idea for me to simply send you the strato_generalmd tileset and have you use that in your level.

But I could send you the modified lizard and the lightning trap and you simply include both in an additional style that you distribute together with this pack.
#834
Teleporter splat-height drops are indeed something I enjoy, because there isn't as much need for an immediate reaction since the lemmings don't splat right away.

My Pit Lems levels "The long way down" / "Controlled overload" are teleporter splat drops with low save requirement; "Thunderstruck" on Lemmings World Tour simulates level wrap like on Lemmicks's "Endlessly falling", so the path has to be built inside the updraft area to prevent lemmings from splatting after having repeatedly circled through the teleporters.
#835
NeoLemmix Main / Re: Hidden objects in NL, part 2
April 04, 2020, 11:08:10 PM
QuoteIt's interesting that you were once happy to design levels with such elements (and so you understand the impulse to do so), but are now firmly against them. I'm curious to know what made you change your mind so conclusively?

Probably other level designers who did the same thing until it got old... :P

Everyone enjoys trolling the player initially, until they start playing other people's packs and the shoe is suddenly on the other foot...
#836
Quote(1) No issue: You can make the hatch safe with a Stoner.

I like these if
a) the Stoner becomes part of the puzzle, i.e. serves to isolate a lemming or wall something of (see Lemmings World Tour, "Sun of Jamaica")
b) you could use the Stoner elsewhere, but the splat hatch forces you to "waste" it right at the start (although on these levels, you could probably simply do without both the splat hatch and the Stoner... 8-) )

Quote(2) Floater frenzy: You have enough floaters/gliders for every lemming.

Unless you're doing it with the actual Frenzy gimmick enabled, i.e. to test reaction time rather than puzzling skill, this is the type I consider completely pointless :P .

Quote(3) Fun-type level: You have lots of skills and a low save requirement. Usually, it's possible to save 100% by continually assigning floaters until a landing platform is ready, but you don't have to do this to pass the level.

Simply boring because nothing is at stake. :P

Quote(4) High save: The level is a puzzle where you have to work out how to build a landing platform in time, with a limited skillset. There is a high save requirement so you have to keep assigning floaters until the landing platform is ready.

I like these, but having to constantly assign Floaters just adds unnecesary execution difficulty. It's actually most interesting when the save requirement is high and you have just one or two Floaters, so you have to find a very fast and efficient solution to the splat hatch to prevent anyone from dying. This also ensures the splat-hatch part doesn't take up too much of the level.

Quote(5) Low save: Also a puzzle level, but now you just get one or two floaters and have to allow lemmings to die until the landing platform is ready.

As others pointed out just today in the "Immediate turn-offs" thread, having to let that many lemmings die often feels very dissatisfying. As said above: Just one or two Floaters + high save requirement is what makes things interesting! ;)

Quote(6) Rescue by lemmings from another hatch: Almost always goes with the "low save" type.

This is pretty much the only type where I'm fine with a low save requirement. These types of levels might become even more common now that we have Neutrals. ;)

Quote(7) No Problemming: the splat/danger hatch is a red herring and all its lemmings should be allowed to die.

Mostly a troll feature that can only really throw a player off if they're incapable of doing some simple math... :evil:
#837
I'd support this! :thumbsup: This would essentially also allow for the creation of "barriers" like in Lemmings Revolution, which you can open and close with switches, by applying this logic to vertical one-way fields. Sure, these barriers would be permeable from one side, but this will suffice a lot of times, I think...
#838
NeoLemmix Main / Re: EXPERIMENTAL BUILD: Jumper
March 31, 2020, 10:07:34 AM
Thanks for pointing this out; I think I'll wait with updating until this is fixed, then, because for level building it is more vital to avoid these types of crashes than to have a skill shadow.

Also, thanks for using my Soviet lemming sprites! ;) :thumbsup:
#839
QuoteI guess that's true even when changing the default height for levels, and so I guess my extremely long post goes way beyond the maximum height allowed for a level and blows a lemming being able to climb a wall out of the water. Nice one, Strato! :thumbsup: Even longer than your own posts? I recall them being super long and very detailed, especially the level feedback. Well, I'm honored, although I certainly had no intention of topping the lengths of your posts haha

Ah yeah, I forgot you've been reading along silently for a while already... :D :P But indeed, I'm pretty sure this particular one is longer than anything I have written, at least here on the Lemmingsforums. Although extending all spoiler tags to full length on some of the level-pack related posts might get me close to that length.
#840
So, since you technically already joined a while ago, welcome to the "active" community, then, kaywhyn! ;)

And congratulations for creating a wall of text so high that no Climber could get over it without going above the deadly level ceiling! :thumbsup:

I actually do still remember floppy disks (at age 26) ;) . And yes, definitely somehow in the context of lemmings, though I don't remember exactly what context. I first played Lemmings on Mac, then Windows, then we dug up my father's old Atari again, which featured that invincibility mode that finally allowed me to get past all the roadblock levels I had been stuck on before, simply to take a look at what was still to come.

The Atari was also my first introduction to Lemmings 2: The Tribes, which we confused back then with Oh No! More Lemmings as the direct successor to Lemmings. Other games that Atari was used for was Elite (the original!) and "Ballerburg" (=shooting castle, don't know what it's called in English; a bit like the forts mode in Worms World Party). It might just be that some of those games for Atari were on floppy disks, and our old Windows computers also definitely still had slots for them.