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Messages - kaywhyn

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421
Results, with bolded ones moving on


Apjjm's "Roiling Clouds" (6 votes)

Armani's "Tightrope Planet" (3 votes)

Crane's "Looks simple enough..." (1 vote)
 
Dire Krow's "Steep Bee-scent" (2 votes)

IchoTolot's "Decent Default Design" (6 votes)

Kingshadow3's "Atmospheric Breach" (3 votes)

tan x dx's "Not much to work with..." (3 votes)

The Tomato Watcher's "A Roundabout Trip" (3 votes)

WillLem's "Minimalemism" (1 vote)

kaywhyn's "The 10 Piece Puzzle Rush" (4 votes)

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Results, bolded levels move on.

Armani's "Insert Coin, Choose Lemming" (8 votes)

Dire Krow's "Infiltration" (1 vote)

IchoTolot's "The Four Corners Of Cloud Seven" (1 vote)

Kingshadow3's "No Other Lemming's Gonna Do That!" (5 votes)
 
The Tomato Watcher's "Lemsicle" (3 votes)

WillLem's "It's All A Matter Of Spacing" (1 vote)

kaywhyn's "Sports-tacular Athletic Rescue Mission" (3 votes)

423
NeoLemmix Styles / Re: Fish fillets style
« on: June 09, 2022, 06:02:02 AM »
Link to Discord: https://discord.gg/2MyfSfN

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@The Tomato Watcher

R1: Yes, I'm well aware that I overcomplicated the start significantly! :P That's the thing when it comes to solving levels in the game: A lot of the time you cannot take into account every single thing a player might try, especially with very messy and fiddly methods with heavy timing elements. Most of the time, designers tend to keep intended solutions very efficient and clean and hence the messy stuff from the player is all self-inflicted. As for the repetitiveness at the end, again it's not you, it just happens to be something that I'm not a fan of when skills have to be assigned repeatedly in a very short amount of time :P

R3: Lol I'm probably the biggest Pixar/Disney fan you will come to know! :P "Toy Story" happens to be a favorite of mine, so yes the reference in the level title was quite obvious to me ;) Especially if you've existed on this planet for as long as I have :P Yea, I'm an oldie and am nearly twice your age :laugh: I've watched nearly all of them growing up, though there's still a handful I haven't seen. 

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@Apjjm

Just posting to confirm that a save 56 for your R3 is indeed possible if the right exit has a limit of 26, not the left exit as you mentioned in the video description. Replay attached.

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All rightie, I've recorded my playthrough of all the contest levels. Here are the links:

Rule 1: https://youtu.be/60X_dAgTi4I

Rule 2: https://youtu.be/kQuhjw1cXNc

Rule 3: https://youtu.be/ZRCa12izYwE

My contest levels: https://youtu.be/iSN3ANILHss


I've also attached my entire replay collection, as well as replays of the intended solutions for my levels. There are two replays for WillLem's R3, one is for the gold/bronze talisman, while the other is for the silver talisman.

As a whole, I thought this collection pack had really tough levels in contrast to last few contests. In particular, the R3's took the longest to solve. Also, if even top solvers like Icho and Armani thought my levels were hard, perhaps I should consider dropping the notion that my own levels are easy, relatively speaking, to all the other ones. It seems that I badly underestimate the difficulties of my levels. This being said, DO NOT expect me to go easy on the difficulty if I ever decide to make a level pack in the future! :P  I think it's becoming more and more likely that I will consider making one, having been inspired and encouraged by some forum members here :thumbsup:

R1 Feedback


DireKrow's Infiltration R1V1 (click to show/hide)





R2 Feedback

Apjjm's Roiling Clouds R2V1 (click to show/hide)

Armani's Tightrope Planet R2V2 (click to show/hide)


DireKrow's Steep Beescent R2V1 (click to show/hide)




WillLem's Minimalemism R2V1 (click to show/hide)


R3 Feedback







WillLem's Bosom Buddies R3V1 (click to show/hide)

427
Hello Icho,

I'm well aware that you're not maintaining/updating this pack for Lemmini anymore, but the last several weeks I decided to revisit Lemmings Reunion on this engine and properly save replays, as well as upload Youtube video solutions. Yes, I was crazy enough to allow myself to be very annoyed with constant restarts on so many levels because of one misplaced skill assignment or I forget to interrupt the replay :laugh: I've definitely grown to like NL so much over the last 2.5 years, so why revisit Lemmini which doesn't have all the wonderful quality of life features, you ask? The short answer is that I was very fond of Lemmini back in the days and I still like to occasionally revisit the engine from time to time, even if the lack of such convenience features gets annoying. Also, I still am a diehard fan of classical Lemmings, i.e, time limits on every level, classic 8 skills only, etc.

I've attached my replay collection, although if you don't have Lemmini on your device anymore then I would just watch the solutions on my channel. In particular, I solve Nightmare! 30 via a glitch. Also, on that level there is some very annoying invisible steel areas in the upper area in the very far left area that I've forgotten about that prevents you from destroying solid terrain, but you can still bypass it, you just need to do it closer to the level edge.

Playlist link of my solutions: Kaywhyn's video solutions of Icho's Lemmings Reunion Pack for Lemmini

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@Icho

Awesome! Icho has solved all of my contest levels with either intended or acceptable alternatives! :thumbsup: More specifically, R1 is an acceptable alternative, while R2 and R3 are 100% intended, with the former swapping a couple of skills around from my intended one, but it still has the essential parts of the solution in it, so no changes needed for R2 or any of my entries for that matter.


Thank you for the compliment on the visuals for my R1 :thumbsup: In addition to this, I must say that I absolutely enjoyed making the level and I love the different parts of the solution I came up with for it! I think I even like this one more than my R1 from the previous contest even though that one I'm quite proud of too. This is also the entry that got me to finally see the light on how very useful the laserer is. Even though I have played plenty of levels featuring the skill from Lemmings Uncharted, I wasn't yet convinced of its usefulness and hence still thought that it has no place in NL. However, I guess sometimes it's enough to simply make your own levels using the skill in order to see its potential! So, I have to say that I'm now in full support of the laserer skill even though it's been in stable for about a year now.





With this, thank you so much to Apjjm, Icho, and Armani for the positive feedback/compliments/replays for my levels! :thumbsup: Once again, I have Icho to thank here that I even got into level designing, as it was his encouragement to me to give it a try and without that I think I would had simply been content with just solving levels! ;P

As for everyone else, keep the replays coming, as I always love seeing more solutions to my own levels. Not to mention others trying and attempting to get them solved ;) I think I will get around to playing these levels myself in the next few days or so. Just been super busy lately.

Good question. I guess that, conversationally, it really depends on how good a level I think it is. However, I think that what actually happens is that the barometer is lowered with each fix I have to make.

So, for example, let's say I make a level which I think is a 10/10 awesome level. It can be easily backrouted, so I make one fix which only changes the level slightly; at that point, I probably think it's more like 9.5/10. Then, oh dear, it can still be backrouted so now I have to really mess with the layout; now it's an 8/10. Another backroute means a third fix, this time forcing me to use pickups or some other drastic level-ruining measure; it's now probably no more than 5 or 6/10 after having had 3 fixes, and is likely to end up getting scrapped.

In another example, I make another 10/10 level (I must be on a roll! ;P). An easy-to-miss backroute can be just as easily fixed, so it's a 9.5/10. Another backroute means having to add a bit of steel; oh well, I can still make it look cool so it's only gone down to 9/10. Yet another backroute means a slight change to the skillset or something being moved a few pixels; I'd consider this the final fix, and the level sits pretty at 8.5/10. If it can still be backrouted, I accept that this is the case, and maybe even embrace it (make it a talisman, or even open up the level even further). This one will be kept.

The above scenarios are obviously not exact, and can happen in different ways. What I'm really illustrating is that some levels just seem to get worse and worse with more and more backroute fixes, whereas others largely remain intact with each fix. In the former example, I'll almost certainly stick to the "maximum 3 fixes" rule and scrap the level. In the latter, I might still stick to just 3 fixes and then leave it as it is, or if I do decide to keep working on it then I'll more likely go in a totally different direction with it altogether. If that happens, I almost class it as a new level rather than a new version.

Very rarely, I might provide further fixes if I reeeeally think a level is worth it. But, we're talking 1 in 100 levels as opposed to every level.

I've never thought of it this way, with each fix lowering the overall quality of the level and the way you've quantified it, but I like the way you explained it here. Interestingly enough, I've kind of felt the same way with each fix as well, although some certainly way more than others, particularly the ones where I kept fixing it up rather than stop after a certain amount of versions. At the same time, I haven't yet gotten into the realm of accepting alternatives because, well, the designs I came up with don't really allow it, mostly due to the skillsets provided. However, as mentioned I have an open-ended level from the previous contest, as well as a couple here where I'm fine with alternatives, so I apparently started allowing other solutions starting with this contest! :P

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As you've said, everyone is different. There seems to be a positive correlation between solving skill and tenacity when it comes to level updates, i.e. the strongest solvers (Icho, Armani, yourself) tend to release multiple versions of their levels and will think nothing of getting to version 7, 8 or even higher. The mindset seems to be that they want to challenge the other players who are equally skilled, and so nothing other than the version which only allows the intended solution will do! (Of course, I could be totally wrong here!)

I think you hit it spot on here with the ones you mentioned with being adamant of enforcing the intended solution at all costs. In my case, as I mentioned the problem is that my designs haven't really allowed for any alternatives, although some of mine in this contest do! I'll certainly be more than happy to explore and get into designs with open-ended solutions in the future, but at the same time I want to make sure they're interesting puzzle-wise. I certainly have nothing against them, and I welcome them with open arms just like I do with almost any level ;P From what I've seen and read around here, it's easy to make either an easy or hard open-ended level, but the challenge is making them interesting too!

429
All rightie, I've updated my R3 one more time to, let's say, improve the visuals, as it started to become a mess in some areas. Here, removed some terrain and some flamethrowers. I'm also taking a big risk here with removing the glider pickups, but if the level gets broken again with future solutions I will restore them. Finally, shifted the top left hangman trap over to the right a bit.

I have a rule when it comes to backroute-proofing. If I have to fix a level more than 3 times, then it's not worth it. At that point I either accept that the level cannot be easily backroute-proofed and ditch it, or keep it as a backrouteable level.

You make a good point. However, the problem with this is that it assumes that the level's super prone to backroutes to begin with and whose solution cannot be completely enforced. How about in the case where levels can still be completely fixed up with an intended solution with, say, 4 or 5 versions? In that case, to you, do you think it's worth it to fix it up after 3 versions you limited yourself to? Maybe you've already implied that the levels whose solutions can be completely enforced are fine here and don't have to be limited to 3 versions and hence I'm probably reading into it too much. Some levels take way more versions than that before the intended is finally completely enforced as well, but again it all depends on whether one wants to accept alternatives or adapt the intended.
 
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Of course, since your level is a contest level then I guess it's harder to limit the number of fixes, especially if you're going for a "one solution only" type of level. It's understandable that you want your level to play out exactly as intended. Still, there has to come a point when you have to accept that the level is probably either too convoluted or too unfixable to keep coming back with more and more versions of it.

I'm in agreement with there being a certain point where the level isn't worth it to fix up anymore, though it's sad to say that I haven't followed this just yet. Let's say that I still haven't gotten there yet with stopping after a certain point because I've often notice that eventually it just becomes a huge visual mess if one isn't careful :P

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Quote from: kaywhyn
as magnificent as my puzzles are

Even if you say so yourself! ;P

Obviously this is subjective, but let's say that the problem is either in the way I've designed them, or, probably more likely, the various parts of the intended solution I have in mind that causes some of them to be constantly riddled with backroutes :P Not to mention that I still seem to be in the whole fixing one part of the backroute but neglecting another area and hence I'm not quite there with killing multiple birds with one stone just yet :laugh:

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Yes! This is a way of thinking which I like to promote as much as possible. Not all levels have to be "intended solution only". Too many of these, in fact, just gets tiresome. In my book, a level which provides two or three possible solutions is more enjoyable, offers repeat play value, and is more likely to be solvable by more people. There is nothing wrong at all with designing levels with this in mind, and in fact I'd say it's a better mindset to have as a designer than the "single solution only" mentality, which often leads to levels being full of awkward and off-putting design, even if they are super clever.

Yes, I know how you're all for more variety with, say, sprinkling in open-ended levels with one solution only ones, as in the former one is free to craft up any solution that solves the level. Let me make it clear that I certainly have nothing against such levels, whether I make them or from others. Instead, I prefer making one solution only levels, although I'm training myself to make the latter too. So far, I have one completely open-ended level, my R3 from the previous contest. It's just that if I do end up making open-ended levels, I want to make them interesting ones too ;P It can be hard to make them either easy or hard but still interesting.

In any case, it's good to see and read your approach when it comes to making levels and how you backroute fix levels. Keep in mind everyone is different when it comes to either one. Again, I'm trying to break away from some of these bad habits of mine in level creating/backroute fixing, but it might take me a while.

Your input is nevertheless insightful, and certainly some key points I will keep in mind! ;)

430
R1 remains V3

Changelog History of R1:

V2 - Added terrain and OWAs to block a backroute thanks to Armani.

V3 - Added OWAs to force more towards the intended solution I had in mind. Whereas I was fine with alternative solutions before, Apjjm's replay has me a bit worried that the way the shimmiers were used could possibly cheese the level somehow. They can be way more useful than that!


R2 remains V3.

Changelog History of R2:

V2 - Adjusted the time limit to fix a backroute thanks to The Tomato Watcher

V3 - Slight shift in the terrain to fix another backroute thanks to The Tomato Watcher


V10 of my R3 uploaded!

Changelog History of R3:

V2 - Added a trap and shifted terrain to fix a backroute thanks to Armani

V3 - Shifted the far left rope trap over to the right slightly and replaced the other rope trap with a fire trap to fix a backroute thanks to Armani

V4 - Shifted the pi symbol over to fix a backroute thanks to Armani. Also the trapdoor to the right of the flamethrower was shifted over, and the exit and trap at the bottom were shifted over the same amount as the pi symbol

V5 - Shifted various terrain pieces some more and added some more flamethrowers to fix backroutes thanks to Armani and Apjjm

V6 - Added another flamethrower to fix a backroute thanks to Armani

V7 - Added a sigma symbol and some more traps/water, also locked the RR to fix a backroute thanks to Armani. Also reduced the number of lemmings and number to be saved.

V8 - Shifted the tilde symbol over, added more flamethrowers, and made the shimmiers pickups to fix a backroute thanks to Armani

V9 - Moved the shimmier pickup and made just 1 a pickup, a builder is also a pickup, and both gliders are now a pickup to fix a backroute thanks to Armani.

V10 - Removed some terrain and flamethrowers and glider pickups, mostly to tidy up the visuals. Also shifted the hangman trap in the top left over to the right a little.


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I have added the link to the LP of Lemmings Plus IV to the OP, as it is another pack that I have solved entirely. That now makes 7 packs of namida's (Lemmings Plus I through Lemmings Plus IV, Holiday, Omega, and Alpha) that I have played. Yup, I'm in complete agreement that LPIV is easier than LPIII. Sure, things got difficult in the Insane rank, but honestly the Fierce rank felt much harder despite being limited to just the classic 8 skills but the levels use Neolemmix features, such as locked exits and updrafts. I think I will also have to agree with Akseli's assessment that thus far, LPIV is one of namida's strongest packs. So, in a way this kind of has me more hyped up with the 3 remaining packs of namida's that I have yet to play. I am especially looking forward to LPV and LPO2, as these are considered his hardest, although maybe either arguably not as much as Alpha. At the same time, the high difficulties of these two have me worried, but then again I did beat Alpha, so maybe I'm worrying for nothing. However, I will not be overconfident that I will get through them with ease, as I still had my struggles with some levels in the other Plus packs too. Once again, I must emphasize that I get stuck on levels all the time, it's just that most of the time I can get them solved given enough time.

LPIV certainly started easy for the most part, although there's still some first rank Smooth levels that I can see tripping some players up. I pretty much got through all of them in one video, although Smooth 20, the final level of the rank, took me the longest. The levels in Bumpy were a tad bit harder, but these still didn't take too long to get solved. Then comes Twisted, where solving times started slowing considerably. The gears really started turning here with the difficulty, and "Clockwork Maze" was a very long struggle. I would also say that it was the hardest level of the rank. I even think it might be better as an Insane level rather than Twisted. At the same time, I did overcomplicate my solution to the level, but in general it's a very hard level. Finally, for Insane there were some difficult levels in there, but I honestly felt more resistance in the Twisted rank. For Insane, Insane 11 was the hardest for me, as can be seen in the LP, as that was the one and only level in the pack that needed more than two videos to get solved. A lot of the failures came from being constantly a pixel off being a safe drop or the timing didn't work out. I think namida said Insane 19 is the hardest, but I didn't think it was that hard. Unless there was a different level in that position before? The final few Insane levels weren't that bad, although I would agree that Insane 17 isn't easy at all, considering it's a big builderless level and uses a certain trick which is absolutely required and you won't get it solved without it.

In any case, despite being considerably shorter than LPO, I still enjoyed LPIV very much. As such, I do recommend this pack for others to play, although it's certainly not for beginners. As mentioned, there's still plenty of first rank levels with very limited skillsets that can still catch such players off guard and hit them hard with puzzly type levels. The difficulty only goes up from there, so you can certainly expect some very hard levels near the end of the pack.

I think I might have an idea to the next pack to LP, but I think I still need time to decide. Or, I might end up putting a poll asking the community's input on that. I'm not sure yet. As always, I will post in this topic again if I do end up putting a poll.

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Lemmings Plus IV added to the completed list as another pack I solved ;)

433
I attached my new solution. I think this is intended now 8-) The normal lemming falls down right after the second glider lemming puts down the first platformer stack and this feels good. Also this time I contain the right crowd so I don't have to do all the hackish timing things with canceling skills with shimmiers. ;)

Finally, that's 100% intended! :thumbsup: I'm happy to hear that you enjoyed my R3. Based on the feedback you gave me on Discord, I will release an update not to block your solution since it's intended now, but that will remove some things that are no longer needed, as I hate how it has now become more of a visual mess than it should be :sick: I might also think about possibly reverting some pickup changes, but I'll need to think about it some more.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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No problem! 8-)
It also gets frustrating for me when my level gets backrouted multiple times, especially when the backroute comes from something I overlooked completely. There are several levels that come to my mind but the level that was most frustrating to fix was Yawning Crevase from Uncharted, I can't even remember how many times I had to fix + I ended up accepting the alternative solution that I really don't fond of :crylaugh: Nowadays I tend to be more generous on accepting alternative solutions if they are not lets say, totally broken. And when it comes to specific 1-solution levels, I also tend to make them with small skillset. That's the one of the reasons I admire Icho's ability to make huge size+big skillset puzzles. Look at the winner of the last contest! It's a really huge level that has big skillset and complicated solution, yet Icho somehow did succeed in enforcing the intended solution in one shot. :lem-shocked:

Ah, good to know that it isn't just me who gets frustrated after a certain point with so many versions of a level for backroute fixing. Still, as I said before that's no reason for me to take out my frustration on you, as you were very helpful in showing me different ways that it could still be backrouted that I didn't think about or consider a player might try.

Thanks again for all the replays/feedback! :thumbsup:

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@Armani

R3: First off, let me start by apologizing for my vent in my previous post. I've just been getting very frustrated with repeatedly applying fixes and thinking I've finally got the level backroute proof, only for you to keep coming back with backroutes because I cannot backroute fix against from the likes of super talented solving people like you. As a result, my frustrations prevented me from fixing my level with a clear mind and conscience. I don't know about you experiencing these emotions whenever you need to repeatedly fix backroutes for your own levels, but this is exactly what can happen after a certain amount of different versions of the level. At least for me it gets frustrating after a while when I need to keep on fixing up a level. However, that's no reason for me to take out my anger on you. In addition, you're not the only person who has repeatedly backrouted my levels, though you do hold the record for sending me the most backroute solutions out of anyone who has played my levels. In any case, rather than get frustrated by it, I should be thankful (and I am, thank you for being persistent in resolving too) for you sending me such solutions, as it goes to show how I didn't carefully consider every approach a solver such as yourself might take to the level. It also tells me that I'm apparently not as good at backroute fixing as I thought I be, which means I should heavily consider getting someone to pre-test them or I just need to come up with better designs and solutions which aren't as prone to backrouting, as magnificent as my puzzles are. Or, learn to accept alternative solutions to my levels.

Second, I think I finally see now which skills have been the major cause of the level being plagued by backroutes. So, for V9, as much as I hate to, I made both gliders, a shimmier, and a builder pickups. I've also moved the shimmier pickup to a different location. I honestly hate using pickups myself to fix backroutes, which is why I try to avoid using them for so long, because my main concern is that they make the level easier than I intended. At the same time, I think based on feedback I've received from you for my levels, I've been proven wrong about my own levels being a lot easier in spite of the pickups.

Finally, if the intended solution is found for V9, I may consider fixing up the level visually in a future update, as some of the things that were added in earlier versions might not even be needed anymore and honestly they started making my level look more of a mess :XD:

435
NeoLemmix Levels / Re: Lemmings Plus Series
« on: April 25, 2022, 09:33:23 AM »
Insane rank completed and hence I have solved all of LPIV. My entire replay collection is attached and more feedback.

Insane Rank Feedback

The hardest levels of the pack are pretty much here, though honestly I felt more challenged by the Twisted rank than I did here :P Then again, solving times pretty much came to a crawl in the Insane rank, where eventually at some point late in the rank I could only get about 2 or 3 levels solved rather than several so easily. The only time I got a huge break was when I managed to get 6 Insane levels solved in the same video, Insane 2 through Insane 7. Even then, there were still plenty of true gems in this rank ;)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Despite being considerably shorter than LPO, I still enjoyed this pack very much. It starts off easy, although there's still some challenging levels in the first rank due to having plenty of levels with very limited skillsets. It then gets challenging especially starting with the Twisted rank, culminating in some of the hardest levels in the Insane rank. All in all, I would recommend this pack for others to play, although it's certainly not for beginners.

Well, the next time I LP another pack of yours I will look forward to it, as LPV is next due to me taking on the packs in chronological order. I look forward to seeing how much I be tested and how much of a struggle it'll be, as it's supposed to be one of your hardest packs, even more than LPIII. I especially look forward to the one after LPV, LPO2, which is purportedly even harder than LPV. The high difficulties do worry me somewhat, but I'm willing to take them on in the form of an LP.

Thanks for LPIV, and hope you're doing well! ;)

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