So yesterday I found out that the new editor doesn't display the current (manualy changeable) X/Y coordinates and the size of the currently selected pieces anymore.

I found this very critical, as it's one of my most used features to be honest. After asking Nepster he explained me that he wasn't using it really and therefore left it out.

Now I want to know if I am a special snowflake here and the only one heavily using changable X/Y coordinates and the piece size information. Please, if you are using this features and want them to stay write in here.

Some words about usage:

It starts with the first piece placement. I usually choose a multiplyer of 8 for the first pieces to start a grid. I type in let's say 240/80 for the hatch and go further from that. Without the feature I would need to place pieces I know by memory they are 16x16 pixels and use them to create a grid, as the piece size isn't displayed, too.

Creating precise gaps is much easier. A builder can build 24 pixels further --- add 24 pixels to the next piece in the X-coordinate for a precise gap. Even better with long gaps -- I want a 96 pixel long gap --- just add 96 to the next piece. No measuring by placing other pices (which we now even don't know the size of anymore) or slow constant playtesting.

Also adjusting the height of gaps and nearly everything is easier check both pieces Y coordinate and adjust. Being sure everything is at the same height is so much easier. A gap should be the same height / have a 37 height difference on the sides, one quick edit in the Y-coordinate and you're fine!

Crating complex structures is way easier if you know the size of your pieces. If I know my piece is 57 pixels long I can better calculate how many pieces of another tile I can fit under it, or parallel 48 pixels under it to extend this.

Using the size information and being able to manually change the current X/Y coordinates saves you a ton of time and nerves when you want to make exact, symmetrical or nearly every structure in the game!


Really I am using it extremely often and I would even consider it as one of the core and most important features of the editor. So it would be sad to let it go. That's why I ask if I am the only one who is using them!

Because of recent events, mainly related to: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3371.0

We should discuss things and make a plan for the future.

As namida won't be working on NL from now on to a undetermined point in time, we need to adapt. Nepster has in-depth knowledge of the Player and new editor code, but I don't know if it's enough to actually finish the format change.

I don't really know the current exact state of the format change. It could be that we are so close that Nepster is able to finish the rest and we can proceed to convert packs, tilesets and other stuff to it. The last thing I've heard is that it's mainly the Toolkit that's missing. Maybe the format change is still possible, but I don't know. ---> To clarify this is one main point of this topic.

So I've thought of a more conservative future plan, if the new format change seems to be set back too much at this point.
Maybe in that case, if more changes will come, they should be more on the smaller side, as the main coder is abscent. That would probably mean:

- Focus on fixing more bugs and issues on the stable version.
- Adapting the new editor to work with the stable version.
- Only adding in features that require small effort.

A statement from Nepster and maybe even namida on the current state of the code and about the possibility of the format change still coming would be very appreciated. I just want to clear out a plan for the future for everyone, instead of leaving everyone in uncertaincy. Uncertaincy at this point would only end in chaos.

Still I can promise you even when development will stand still for quite some time, I will continue to test packs, help you with your content, create new content, run contests and generally be there.
The NL engine is still strong in it's cureent state and even when new things won't come for a while, the ability to play and create, the absolute core of the project, won't go away and will always be there!

There is one big problem I see with the upcomming new formats and it's the storage of the pack-specific tilesets which are not included by standard in NL.

I am always very concerned about maintainability of packs and strife for a big database of functional packs from all the different authors. Sadly some packs are lacking updates to keep them up-to-date and running on the new NL versions which makes me a little bit sad inside seeing good packs decent into incompability.

As I thought deeply about the new formats I came to a point which can result in chaos: Each pack still has to come with the non-standard tilesets it is using and as these cannot be stored hidden in an nxp anymore, they go directly into the tilesets folder and here is my point --> I highly doubt every pack creator keeps the tilesets bundled with his pack up-to-date!
This can result in total chaos when a tileset creator releases a critical update. Some users use the new version and the pack isn't working anymore. Other users overwrite the new with the pack version and now every other pack has a chance of not working.

So what to do?

I've come up with 2 solutions and a proposal which can help reducing the problem in general:

[Solution 1]

This is not my preferred solution and you will see why.

Letting packs have (again) internal tilesets which have priority over the tileset database within the pack. This ensures the pack is working all the time while still not influencing the other content.
Still we want to go away from hidden files and binary blobs and that's why this is far from optimal.

[Solution 2]

Each pack can have a modification (mod) folder where it stores modded tilesets in the new format. This is similar to SuperLemmini which also has a mod folder for tileset modifications.
Here each pack can (!= must) store it's non-standard tilesets and the author does not need to update the pack when one of the tilesets there gets an update. It's still preferable to update the mods as well, but no different tileset versions will overwrite themselves, causing possible broken content.
This could lead to having tons of versions of the same tilesets and that's why I highly advertise to keep the mods up-to-date as well, resulting only in safety duplicates.
Also now minor modifications to existent tilesets will be possible without overwriting the original maybe made by a different author.
Furthermore trash tilesets don't clutter the already big tileset folder -- like Sega2.dat I use in Reunion. They can now be stored the the tileset's mod folder.

This would be my preferred solution.

[Helpful proposal]

Expanding the by standard included tileset list of NL.

If more tilesets are included by standard, fewer tilesets need to be included with downloading a new pack. Of course these should be tilesets which are relatively stable and high quality ---> not having many major content breaking overhauls anymore.

Why not include the following to the standard list:

-- Gronkling's tilesets (Menace,Beast II,Cyber,Slime and minimal)
-- My Dune tileset, Lemmini conversions of Pieuw's castle and Prince Jamie's City tileset.
-- zanzindorf's glacier and sKiwi tilesets
-- I don't know how many of them are currently stable: GigaLem's freedom planet tilesets.
-- Arty's lego tileset

Raymanni's tilesets are currently still in the development phase, but after that they are also a hot candidate.
I 100%missed some potential candidates, but simply write in here!

With all these included by standard the ammount of nessesary tileset additions to packs will drop dramatically!

This will also lead to the reduction of the safety duplicates if [Solution 2] is chosen.



What do you think about the problem and how should it be adressed after you?  Do you also want a bigger standard NL tileset database, or which tilesets did I miss here?

I will also soon update the topic on the upcomming changes to the L2 tilesets, but don't panic no content breaking stuff there. Only removal of some no-trigger objects and the adding of a few tiles, which won't be problematic with the new formats.
 

Here it finally is: The long awaited NeoLemmix conversion of DoveLems!

1.) Download Link:

NeoLemmix player: https://www.neolemmix.com/

DoveLems NeoLemmix (V 3.7  ~ 202 KB): DoveLems V 3.6
Contains the game itself.

Outdated Old formats version (before NeoLemmix 12.0.1):
DoveLems NeoLemmix (V 1.4  ~ 139 KB): DoveLems V 1.4
Contains the game itself.

This pack has no custom music, so edit the standard rotation tracks to your liking to get whatever music you think fits.

2.) Installation:

1. Get a NeoLemmix player from: https://www.neolemmix.com/  and extract it into a folder of your choice (if you already have an up-to-date player you can skip this step)
    Also make sure you got all the styles as well and extracted them into your player's "styles" folder.
2. Unzip "DoveLems.zip" into the main folder of your Neolemmix player.  ../levels/DoveLems should exist now.
3. Run "NeoLemmix.exe" and press F2 in the main menu so you can access the pack through the level browser.
4. Inform yourself about the basics, new NeoLemmix features and hotkeys with the manual: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4081.0
5. Enjoy!

3.) Ratings:

1 – Plain



2 – Coward



3 – Devilish



4 – Maso



5 – Bonus



4.) Some words about the general conversion:

I generally tried to stay very close to the original, but quite some changes were needed due to the NeoLemix physics. There are also some levels which need to have NL features like pick-ups to fix backroutes or to get around some Lemmini glitches.
I've also removed quite a lot of the timers which I thought were not needed and would just annoy the player (of course "time crunchers" and levels where it fits will still have them).
Furthermore I tried to make all traps as visible as possible (without looking stupidly out of place) and esspecially the "Lemming Digging Iron Plates" level was changed towards a little puzzle challenge rather than a guessing the path type of level.

5.) Special thanks:

Well of course to Dodochacalo for making the levels in the first place!

As well to:

namida                                    for creating the NeoLemmix engine
GigaLem                                  for making the mainmenu logo for me

6.) CONTACT INFO:

Via email you can reach me at: ScavengerW@gmx.de

Youtube (IchoTolot)     : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4Elfo3E1jTl-SHlOy97kwA
Youtube (Dodochacalo): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6pADGdioEJHas1-Z_YLXw

Please inform me on any errors I made while converting (autosteel forgotten, no author name......) so I can fix them quickly. Furthermore I welcome any sent in in solution replays, so I can get those last pesky backroutes!

Enjoy the pack!

I think the true physics mode should also display the receivers trigger area, so you can determine exactly where the lemmings will spawn.

Also "show trigger areas" in the editor could do the same as well.

With the upcomming format change, I've decided to couple that update with a few other changes that are mostly very minor, but as a preperation for you and a reminder for me I've made a list:

1.) The sarcophagus of the Egyptian set will be removed as an object and return as a terrain piece!
Level using the object won't be broken as it will simply disappear from levels. So only optional decorative fix is needed.

2.) The libra of the Egyptian set will be removed as an object and return as a terrain piece!
Level using the object won't be broken as it will simply disappear from levels. So only optional decorative fix is needed.

3.) I will add an animation to the Egyptian staff object that shall clarify that this is an decorative object.

4.) In L2 Egyptian the large object containg the staff thing (currently O 12) which acted as a placeholder for that unfair trap taken over from Lemmini can finally go as the order is not relevant anymore after the format change. As the staff is still there in it's normal form and the placeholder is a no-trigger object everything should be just fine.

5.) Adding numerous L2 Sports tiles. Raymanni noticed a few tiles missing and it should be no problem to add them.

Image of the tiles attached!

6.) I still want some animation for the trees of L2 Shadow. Some leaves moving in the wind or a slight glow in them. But here I would need some help. If anyone has made an animation please send it to me!

7.) Will add a slight glowing animation for the no light lamp of L2 Shadow. This shall clarify that this is an decorative object. + some general visual improvents

8.) Object 3-6 of the Shadow set will be removed as an object and return as a terrain piece!
Level using the object won't be broken as it will simply disappear from levels. So only optional decorative fix is needed.

Objects can be seen here: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2643.msg57285#msg57285

9.) Better piece names for Dune and my tilesets listed here: http://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3330.0
100% internal change.

10) Deleting the decorative Lemmings in Shadow, sports and egyptian.
Levels using the object won't be broken as it will simply disappear from levels. So only optional decorative fix is needed.

11) Oudoors bush eyes will be merged into the no edge-bush version
Levels using the object won't be broken, but the decoration would need to be rechecked.

The changes will start when the experimental version becomes "safe to convert". When I finished the changes I will send the updated tilesets back to namida so that the exp player uses the updated versions as well.

I tried to make another mass replay check for Lemmings Reunion today. After ~ 45 passing levels the checker spit out only "error" and "<no match>" instead of "passed" and ended after that in an NL hang after I clicked to exit, which must be handled via task manager.

I picked a few of the "error" replays and checked them manually ----> they work fine and they solve!

So it seems to me that the new replay checker is currently broken. I did rebuild my pack with the very latest Flexi version just to be sure the newest update could have sth to do with it, but no change here.

EDIT:  PinoLems seems to check through just fine....investigating.....

EDIT 2: The switch to the errors seem to happen starting always at "Four Pals" after "Field Trip" has passed (replays sorted alphabetically). Both replays checked manually and they work just fine. There must be a inner NL screw up here, as from that point on only errors happen ending in a complete hang after trying to exit.

If needed I provide my nxp version + replay folder via pm!  (well sent them to namida in advance anyways )

So I discovered this today:

I have recently thrown out all internal music in Lemmings Reunion as I put all my custom music into the music folder. Each level has a track specified and no one is using a standard track.

As I run a NL version (latest hotfix) in an empty test folder opening Reunion (without music tacks) in the same location I actually get no music at all; I suspected to get the standard NL music rotation.

Levels with no music track specified will still play a track from the standard rotation (tested with the LD Autumn Contest nxp playing the R1 first level). So the silence seems to come from not
finding the specified tracks.

Is this intentional?

So I would suggest if you don't have a level pack's music included, that it would just play the NL standard tracks (or whatever you have set as the standard rotation).

As when the player decided against the custom music he/she should still have the option to get the standard rotation --- he/she still can turn it off anyways.

So all 3 options: Custom tacks/standard tracks/ no music are possible for the player when playing packs with custom music.