Sorry for double-posting, but since printing the RR line seems to be a contentious issue, it seems worth pointing out that we could make the entire Preview screen text user-configurable. The text colours are already per-line configurable; we could add a section to the same document for 'Layout', and the user could comment-in/out the lines they do/don't want to see.

Example:

LEVEL TITLE
LEMMING COUNT
#RELEASE RATE
TIME LIMIT
WHATEVER
ETC

Rather than arguing in circles when we clearly disagree, let's just give everybody what they want.

With that said, we do still need to agree on the formatting of some of the individual lines themselves. The most difficult things are currently:

1) How do we display Level Title, Position, Group, Pack?
2) Where should the Author name go in relation to this?
3) How should different Lemming types be accounted for?

Once the lines have been agreed upon, with a user-configurable layout, whether or not to display a particular line becomes trivial.

Quote from: Proxima on July 14, 2026, 11:39:52 PMThe proposal at the bottom of your post doesn't include the pack name (unless you are proposing that the "Position" line should include this).

Sure, we can look at adding the pack name in if people think this is a good idea. Although, as with not needing to display the Author's name every time if it's the same, perhaps displaying the pack name every time is equally redundant (if not more so, because the pack name definitely won't change per-level, whereas the Author name might)?

Quote from: Proxima on July 14, 2026, 11:39:52 PMThe obvious solution is to structure the "Position" line as [pack]: [rank] [number].

We want to aim to avoid colons wherever possible. We've just removed one from the Author line, let's not now add one to the Position line.

Quote from: Proxima on July 14, 2026, 11:39:52 PM(Possible solution: read the full tree and structure the line as [top-level folder]: [sub-folder]: [rank] [number], and allow this to go over two lines if necessary.)

I agree that we need some elegant way of dealing with long pack/group names, but we should probably aim to keep it to a single line if possible. I suggest we either simply omit displaying the pack name if it would take this line over a certain number of characters, or display the pack name on its own line.

Again, though, since the pack name remains the same, do we need to keep displaying it (this isn't a rhetorical question btw; perhaps we do!)?

Quote from: Proxima on July 14, 2026, 11:39:52 PMWhen a pack is single-author, the author's name doesn't need to be displayed on every preview page. The author can add their name on every level if they want, of course, but if they choose not to, the engine should not force them to.

Agreed, we don't always need to display the Author name. If it's blank or Anonymous, then, let's not print it.

Quote from: Proxima on July 14, 2026, 11:39:52 PM

QuoteIncidentally, the latest NL Editor automatically populates the 'Author' field with the username from NeoLemmix/CE's settings. However, it's likely that not everybody will have the latest Editor.

No. If you want this to be a thing, take the username from NLEditorSettings; then for people who don't want it, it is obvious how to disable it.

Actually, I misremembered this. It was originally implemented using the Game's settings, but I later added a field to the Editor's settings, which can be easily edited from within the Editor's UI, and left blank if the user doesn't want to automatically populate the Author field. So, it's already exactly as you've suggested.

I've corrected my post above.

Quote from: Proxima on July 14, 2026, 11:39:52 PM[Release Rate] was removed by group consensus after discussion, so you shouldn't have put it back of your own accord without discussion.

And the reason for removing it is clear: it's clutter, and it doesn't give the player any meaningful information while still on the preview screen

Here we simply disagree. I like to be able to see what the RR for the level is from the Preview screen, and I don't think it adds unnecessary visual noise. We can quieten it using different line colours, as suggested above.

Regarding putting it back in - I'd honestly prefer to re-open this discussion if it does need to be had. NeoLemmix development was very cull-happy at one point, and I don't think that those of us who wanted certain aspects of the game to be preserved had a strong enough voice at the time.

FWIW, had I been part of that discussion, I would have been strongly against culling Release Rate from the Preview screen, especially for the weak reason that it's "clutter". The Preview screen is a relatively quiet place compared to a lot of in-game UIs nowadays; if anything, I think that more information should be displayed there.

However, for the sake of keeping things simple, I wouldn't suggest adding more than is necessary at this point. And I strongly consider the Release Rate value (and locked status) to be necessary information.

Quote from: Proxima on July 14, 2026, 11:39:52 PMThe release rate becomes helpful when the level is opened and the player can begin to strategise.

Well, to some extent, the player doesn't need to know any specifics until they're actually playing the level. From that point of view, the Preview screen only really needs to display the title and a preview image, if anything at all.

As I see it, the main 2 reasons that any information about the level's properties is displayed on the Preview screen is to (a) give the player an idea of what the level will present to them before they start playing and (b) (perhaps more importantly) provide the player a moment to orient themselves after completing the previous level. With a game like Lemmings where every level can be very different and very challenging, this respite between levels is vital.

More power, then, to the Preview screen and all of the information it can possibly provide - regardless of whether the player actually needs any of it at that particular moment.

Quote from: Proxima on July 14, 2026, 11:39:52 PM

QuoteSave 14 of 67 Lemmings
4 Normal, 10 Neutral, 53 Zombie

Zombies can never be saved, so 4 normal + 10 neutral + 53 zombie should be displayed as "Save 14 of 14".

Agreed.

I'm unsure exactly how to display this information to be honest. If we were completely redesigning the Preview screen (not out of the question), I'd probably suggest that we use icons + digits (similar to the Level Select menu). Or, maybe it is better to explicitly write 'Neutral' and 'Zombie' to keep this as clear as possible.

Open to suggestions.

NeoLemmix CE currently presents 2 different Replay 'Modes', detailed as follows.

Normal (Red 'R') Mode

• Clicking with the left mouse button anywhere whilst this replay mode is active will cancel the replay
• When the replay is cancelled, all future actions for all lemmings and all release rate changes are erased
• This mode is activated either by restarting the level, or rewinding to some point before the most recent action
• This is the standard mode

Replay Insert (Blue 'R') Mode

• This mode allows actions to be 'inserted' into the replay on any frame that doesn't already contain an action
• Clicking in air does not cancel the replay
• Clicking a lemming does not cancel the replay, but an action can be assigned to that lemming if one is selected in the panel (and the lemming is action-eligible)
• This mode can only be cancelled by explicitly cancelling out of replay mode, either by using the user-configured hotkey (C by default), or by clicking the blue 'R' icon in the skill panel (NeoLemmix CE only)
• As per Normal Mode, when the replay is cancelled, all future actions for all lemmings and all release rate changes are erased
• This mode is activated via a user-configured hotkey only (O by default). That same hotkey will return the player to Normal Mode if Replay Insert Mode is active

The main purpose of Replay Insert Mode is to allow actions to be added to a replay without losing future replay data. It can also prevent data loss by accidental clicking, so is useful when navigating through a replay in general.

It is arguably the only worthwhile replay mode, then. As long as we provide the player with easy ways to cancel out of it (making the 'R' clickable is enough, but we could perhaps do even more), it renders the 'Normal' mode obsolete.

I suggest the following:

1) Get rid of Normal (Red 'R') Mode and replace it entirely with Replay Insert Mode. We then just have 'Replay Mode', and we can decide on a set of behaviours.

2a) Add a 'click air to cancel replay' option so that users can choose whether they want to click air to cancel, or use the panel 'R' and/or a cancelling hotkey

or

2b) Use RMB to cancel when air is clicked rather than LMB. We may not need the option if we do this.

3) Tighten up the specifics of Replay Mode based on a single-mode model rather than maintaining 2 separate modes.

Thoughts?

Quote from: Simon on July 09, 2026, 09:31:35 PMIdeas: We can have a shorter first session on Monday night, July 13, after work, e.g., 18:00 UTC = 19:00 BST = 20:00 CEST. Or Wednesday, July 15, also 18:00 UTC.

Apologies for the delayed reply. As it happens, I wouldn't have been available for either of these dates/times anyway, but thank you for offering them.

We can come back to this whenever is most convenient for you; I appreciate that you want to help

Quote from: Simon on July 13, 2026, 07:35:00 PMThe "Cut 2 tasks" text has been surprisingly helpful ... I immediately knew which lemming's future to cut.

Glad to know it's working as intended.

When you first suggested showing something to the player so they know they're about to cut future actions from the replay, it occurred to me that this is in fact necessary to close the gap between wanting to have more control over the replay on-the-fly, and wanting to preserve it wherever possible.

The UI feedback has in fact been the catalyst for this feature going ahead. I'm happy enough with it that I'll port it over to SuperLemmix in due course.

We can also consider simplifying Red and Blue replay modes to a single replay mode which behaves how most players would expect it to; if we do this, though, I'd want to make 'click air to cut replay' optional. See this topic for discussion on this particular item.

Quote from: Guigui on July 09, 2026, 07:34:13 AMIs no time limit better than infinite time ?

I don't think so. I would much prefer to print 'Infinite Time' if the level has no time limit. However, this doesn't seem to be a popular opinion, and also...

Quote from: Guigui on July 09, 2026, 07:34:13 AMThe color for spawn inter is a bit too flashy, it makes this info stand out too much.
...
The flashy color can actually be used for the time limit when there is one, because this info should stand out.

Quote from: Simon on July 13, 2026, 10:26:35 PMTime Limit: Yeah, consider to hide the entire line if it's infinite. That's the normal case. If you use color ... then limited time should be the yellow line because the in-game time limit is also yellow.

Agreed, time limit should be yellow so it stands out better when present. Let's not use 'Infinite Time', then, as this shouldn't stand out.

Quote from: Simon on July 13, 2026, 10:26:35 PMshorten the word "Author:" to "by" and even omit the colon?

Agreed.

Quote from: Simon on July 13, 2026, 10:26:35 PMTitle, author, and position/pack/... fit well with each other. I think of levels as "Level X by Y from pack Z". Some seem to think of levels as "Position N in pack Z by Y"

Agreed. 'Level by Author in Pack' makes more sense because we have several compilations available on the Forums, and many packs by singular authors feature the occasional collaboration level. Furthermore, the Author is written/read on a per-level basis anyway, so the UI should reflect this.

Quote from: Simon on July 13, 2026, 10:26:35 PMIf author is anonymous, you can hide the author line entirely

I'm about 50/50 on this. Printing 'Anonymous' is redundant, but it may indeed prompt an author to include their name.

Incidentally, the latest NL Editor automatically populates the 'Author' field with the username from NeoLemmix/CE's settings. EDIT: This was in fact changed to be stored in, and set from, the Editor's settings However, it's likely that not everybody will have the latest Editor.

Quote from: Simon on July 13, 2026, 10:26:35 PMRelease rate/spawn interval feels irrelevant. I'd ditch that entirely. I believe it's a leftover from Lemmings 1 because Lemmix replicated that screen and nobody had the guts yet to cut it.

Strongly disagree. It is in fact the exact opposite: it was removed from NeoLemmix and I had the guts to put it back in!

Release Rate is a relevant level statistic and there's no reason not to print it on the Preview screen, not just for nostalgia, but also because it gives the player an idea of what to expect from the gameplay itself. We should also indicate if the Release Rate is locked (CE currently does this), and the preview screen is as good a place as any to display this information.

Quote from: Simon on July 13, 2026, 10:26:35 PMMaybe replace "N to be saved" by "Save N", but I feel I will be shred to pieces for such heretic chopping.

Agreed. 'N to be saved' is clumsy. It should be 'Save N of N Lemmings', with an extra line (if necessary) detailing how many Normals/Neutrals/Zombies there are. So, instead of:

4 Lemmings, 10 Neutrals, 53 Zombies
14 to be saved

It would be:

Save 14 of 67 Lemmings
4 Normal, 10 Neutral, 53 Zombie

EDIT: There may be an even less clumsy way to present this information, but I think we're on the right track.

Quote from: Simon on July 13, 2026, 10:26:35 PMI wrote {"Save N",} instead of the rules-abiding {"Save N,"}

In this context, putting the comma outside of the quotes makes much more sense, since the quote is a capsule within the sentence, and the comma is a separator. If I was an English professor, I'd award you 100% for your sentence!

---

Current proposal for Preview screen text:

[Image]
Title

by Author
Position
Save N of N Lemmings
(N Normal, N Neutral, N Zombie)
Release Rate/Spawn Interval N (Locked)
(Time Limit N:NN)

Lines/words in brackets are ommitted where relevant.

---

I've added a poll.

Let's pencil in 13th/14th August as the meetup dates. This is subject to change only if someone who wants to come along is unable to make these dates. We will try to accommodate everybody where possible.

If you choose option 3 ('Somewhere else') please post a reply with a suggested location, otherwise the vote will be counted as 'No preference'.

Looking forward to seeing everybody again!

Quote from: Dullstar on July 08, 2026, 10:31:08 PMif we're going to include Release Rate, when the Spawn Interval setting is enabled it should probably respect it.

I thought I'd already done that tbh. It's defintely done now anyway (NLCEPlayer commit a41d895).

I've always thought that having an extra line for 'X to be saved' is a bit redundant. We could eliminate that line by simply saying 'Save X of X lemming(s)', and then post an additional line if the level contians neutral and/or zombies.

If we leave it as it is though, I agree with Proxima that 'To Be Saved' does look a bit odd; let's change it back to 'to be saved' instead. Here's a demo:



Since Release Rate and Spawn Interval often get shortened to 'RR/SI', it feels right to capitalise that line.

Meanwhile, 'Infinite Time' can simply not be shown if a level doesn't have a time limit. Then, we'll only show a time limit if there is one.

Also, here's the same screenshot as above but making use of different line colours. IMO this looks much less cluttered, but we could perhaps re-think which line has which colour:



Thoughts?

Just giving this a bump. It's looking like August 13th/14th are good dates so far.

Leeds is our usual meetup place, we tend to do OK with that. Liverpool is probably my favourite city in England, so I can recommend that highly if people want to try somewhere new. Plenty of good places to eat, lots to do, sights to see, etc.

Post if you're interested in coming along, let us know if August 13th/14 works for you.

Quote from: Simon on July 06, 2026, 06:43:05 AMI've noted Sunday 12th at 13:00 UTC == 15:00 CEST for voicechat in Mumble. All right!

Apologies! I won't be available on Sunday after all. Can I look forward to another time? This bug has sticky, persistent suckers. We can rip them away together.

To be clear, cycling will always be an option.

It's now accessible via settings/NLCEClearPhysicsColors.nxmi and will remain so indefinitely.

The default is for the colours to remain static following Simon and Proxima's comments, but perhaps we should revert to the status quo as the default (so, gadget shapes cycle, everything else is static)?

Your silence = the colors will be static by default (and can still be set to 'cycle' via the .nxmi)

Quote from: Simon on July 06, 2026, 10:33:13 PMGo to a preview screen of a level that has exactly 1 regular lemming and exactly 1 zombie. It will say: "1 lemmings, 1 zombies".

This is now fixed. I've also capitalized the 'L' of 'Lemming(s)' for now to be consistent with everything else:



Fixed in NLCEPlayer commit 53f667d.

We can re-think the capitalization for sure. I'd suggest that we either capitalize every word, as in the above screenshot, or don't capitalize anything. Open to other suggestions.

Quote from: Proxima on July 06, 2026, 10:56:35 PMBut considering that nothing in the level stats is a title of anything (except of course for the level and rank titles), maybe it would be better to lowercase everything and capitalise only the first letter of each line (except when it's a number)?

Agreed, this could work.

Quote from: Proxima on July 06, 2026, 10:56:35 PMI prefer NL's uncluttered screen, with no release rate and no "Infinite Time". (Time limit should be pointed out when there is one, but this is very rare in NL.) Why were these changes made in CE, and was there ever a discussion?

The changes were made mainly for 2 reasons:

1) Simply, to show the player more information on the preview screen.
2) Preview screen text color can now be customized on a per-line basis (using data/ce-textcolours.nxmi). Recoloring each line does make it look a bit less cluttered and easier to read (possibly why it was done this way in the Amiga version).

IIRC, there wasn't a discussion about this specifically. Looking back over the roadmaps/release topics, I don't think it got mentioned either, so apologies for this - it's a genuine oversight. I ported Preview Screen text creation over from SLX when implementing the ability to customise the text color (something that was previously specifically requested for NL), and I prefer the SLX refactor because it's a lot easier to deal with.

Anyway, discussion around Preview Screen text can begin here in this topic, or we can create another one. Of course, it should represent what the majority of the community wants. For now, consider it a demo feature whilst CE is still relatively new.

I feel I should also re-affirm at this stage that nothing that gets implemented in CE is final. Everything is open to suggestions, re-working, and possible removal after the fact if necessary. CE is not a 'WillLem project', I just happen to be the only dev on the Forums who has the time/inclination to take it on. If you don't like something, post a topic and we'll sort it out as a community. What I'm not prepared to do though is post a million topics about every little change and await feedback on every single one before actioning anything. That would be a recipe for nothing getting done. Better to keep development moving and respond to feedback on features already implemented IMHO.

Quote from: Simon on July 05, 2026, 08:58:51 PMI'll sign up for the dungeon crawling. Level 40 Porcupine.

Grateful Level 33 Otter.

Let's do Sunday 12th at 13:00 UTC / 14:00 UK / 15:00 Germany (I think I've got that right!)

Quote from: Simon on July 05, 2026, 08:58:51 PMrelated bug that has hits me sometimes: Input gets eaten during continuous rewinding -- if we're really lucky, we'll find a single root cause behind both bugs.

Yeah, that could well be related. It does seem to be an input-themed bug.

Your help is welcome, no puzzle can beat us both!

This bug is present in NL 12.14, NL Community Edition, and SuperLemmix.

Steps to reproduce:

1) Assign some key to a small backwards framestep (e.g. -3)
2) In game, rapidly refire the key (in NLCE, the best way to test this is by using the mouse wheel framesteps, which can call the backstep faster than a repeating key)
3) The game will backstep by -3 repeatedly for some time, but then will skip by some unknown large amount of frames.

This bug has thwarted the Rewind button in SuperLemmix, and is now having the same effect on mouse wheel framesteps in NLCE.

Best guess is that the game has not fully rendered before the next call to skip back is received, but honestly it could be anything to do with the save state system, the rendering loop, the update loop, etc. I've tried a number of different solutions and none of them have worked.

I'm logging this now so that I can come back to it later.

Quote from: Simon on July 04, 2026, 11:21:10 PMIf you can restrict it to a small selection of smileys (thumbs up), that will be good.
...
it's better to have explicit thumbs-down than, e.g., abusing the sick smiley. I'm not even sure if I'd still remain neutral on those reaction buttons anymore in that case. I'd probably advise against then.

Agreed, if we can't restrict it to a select few lemojis, it's probably not worth it.