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Messages - Proxima

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76
SuperLemmix / Re: [DISC]NeoLemmix>SuperLemmix Levelpack Compatibility
« on: June 05, 2023, 09:07:29 PM »
It may be that this is something you are not willing to consider, but I thought I should throw it out there.

NL has, from the beginning, been extremely permissive about users making their own styles. This has led to a situation where, not only are there 261 styles to manage, but even packs like Lemmings Cranium and GemLems that are predominantly classic-styles packs will have the occasional level that borrows a piece or two from any of the styles on the list... with the result that although styles are nominally an opt-in feature, the user is obliged to keep all styles installed and up-to-date.

For a new engine, you might consider being more restrictive about which styles are available.

77
Regarding existing content, I see both sides but I'm a bit more on Will's side. NL levels were made for NL and are still playable in NL; being able to play some of them in SLX at all is a nice bonus but not something authors can demand. It's similar to how I converted the DoveLems levels to Lix back when Lix supported original terrain; a lot of them didn't work as intended (mostly because of one-way walls, but there were and are other differences between the engines) -- and that's okay because it was just a fun project, while the levels were still fully playable as intended on Lemmini.

(Talking of DoveLems, I should mention that Icho's NL conversion of DoveLems was on a different basis, because this was after Lemmini was no longer one of the community's main engines, so the intent was that the NL conversion should take over as the main version of DoveLems going forward. Even so, namida as NL developer was under no obligation to keep Lemmini behaviour in the engine just to make this conversion easier.)

* * *

Back to the shimmier: my first observation is that the existing behaviour (continue or fall, depending on step height) is obviously simpler than the proposed behaviour of continue, fall or turn depending on step height. Simplicity in skill behaviour is desirable; the best puzzles tend to be those where complexity emerges from how simple operations are combined.

It also doesn't feel right that a non-permanent skill can continue for ever.

But my main objection to the bouncing shimmier is simply that, from both the player and level designer's point of view, the purpose of the shimmier is to carry a lemming from point A to point B, and then stop (optionally, with the player having the choice of stopping the shimmier half-way with a walker or bomber, if one is provided). The bouncing shimmier fundamentally acts against what the skill is designed to do.

78
Wheel for zoom is vastly more useful than wheel for vertical scroll -- most levels are 160 pixels tall, which is less than a third of the vertical height of the window; even on the rare level that goes above this, one is more likely to want to zoom than scroll. And it's consistent with what the wheel does (by default) in the game. So that obviously shouldn't change.

Shift-wheel for horizontal scroll is okay. I wouldn't often want it, but there are some wide levels where it's handy to have a quick way to scroll across. I don't even have an objection to assigning shift-wheel to horizontal scroll while having nothing for vertical scroll. We're designing a Lemmings level editor, not a general image editor, so it doesn't have the same needs.

Horizontal-only and vertical-only drag are good features to have, but much too niche to give to the unmodified RMB, which ought to go to something the user will use often. The current assignation of RMB to drag-to-scroll is optimal and shouldn't be changed without a very good reason.

Do we have to restrict ourselves to ctrl, shift, alt as modifiers? Could holding down H or V while dragging be assigned to horizontal-only and vertical-only?

79
Plus, it's reasonable to assume that a Shimmier would "attempt" to traverse anything from 3-6px, but then realise it's too low and fall. Whilst, a 7px-or-more obstacle is clearly not traversable, so they simply turn around.

But if you're envisaging this in terms of the lemming making conscious decisions (always dangerous, because the whole premise of the game is that they are usually mindless and will walk straight ahead into any danger), it's not at all clear why hitting a wall is more likely to make the shimmier think "I should turn round" rather than "I've got as far as I can, time to let go". The lemming doesn't and can't know the overall layout of the level.

80
Don't like this idea at all. The "yippee" is great, while anyone who doesn't like it has the option of replacing it.

81
Cute 9 requires you to have the ray_spooky style installed. If you have online features enabled, you can do this from within NL. Otherwise, this link goes to the all styles download: https://www.neolemmix.com/download.php?program=52

82
SuperLemmix Bugs & Suggestions / Re: [SUG] Level top and sides
« on: June 03, 2023, 01:36:59 PM »
Funny that you should post, Strato -- I was just going to say that WillLem's "consistency" argument reminds me of you! :P

I don't agree [replying to the OP], because the shimmier is not like the other skills you mention. The swimmer is a permanent skill. When the swimmer hits a wall, it turns around (obviously) and is still a swimmer, so it swims the other way. Similarly with the glider.

The shimmier is a single-action skill that tells the lemming "shimmy as far as you can, then stop and revert to walker or faller". It just makes sense that hitting a wall is something that makes it stop. I don't mean "makes sense" in a hard-and-fast "this is how it must be" way -- if I were new on the scene and the shimmier was already bouncy, I'd get used to it and accept it -- just that even if we were designing the skill from scratch with no existing content, that's the way I would argue for.

As for the jumper, you might have a look at the original jumper physics discussion to see what was said there about whether it should bounce or fall. For me, the main reason against bouncing is that it allows for some really fiddly design, particularly bouncing off a wall to reach a ledge above.

(And what I meant in the Discord when I said "You know what my answer is going to be"... the only behaviour that really makes sense and is consistent, as well as being what the community wants, is deadly edges. Solid edges either allow climbers/sliders to cling onto nothing, or else require those skills to be special-cased. So if you insist on solid edges... it's your project and you do what you want, but don't expect to be able to make everything make sense.)

83
Congrats :thumbsup: Solution to Behind Bars is correct. I like the way you interpreted "behind bars" to refer to
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
...that had not been on my mind at all, but it fits perfectly!

84
So, putting everything together... a weekend would be best, and it seems like 8/9 July is one that works for everyone.

We have people coming from Leeds, Liverpool, Derby, Nottingham, Rotherham, and Brighton. That's a lot more north than south, so it seems to be best to find somewhere that suits all the north folks, and Crane can join us by train.

I think we have two main options:

(1) Hold the meet in Leeds -- it's well connected by train, everyone should be able to get there, and two of us live there so it'll be easier to find somewhere for all of us to go. We could meet up in the train station at about 12, have lunch together, and then (depending on the weather) go to a park or walk around the town centre while chatting and getting to know each other.

(2) Choose a location in the middle of all of us -- on looking at a map, that means most likely Sheffield or close to there. Everyone should be able to get there and no-one is prioritised over the others, but the fact that none of us actually lives there could be a disadvantage.

Thoughts? Should I put up a poll?

85
Challenges / Re: NeoLemmix: Maximum Saved Records
« on: May 21, 2023, 11:42:07 PM »
It's actually possible to save 49/50 by using the digger on the left so that only the bomber dies. (The original game has 50 lemmings on this level.)

But this depends on the way steel was handled in the original game. Destructive skills would consult the steel map to decide whether to stop, or, in the case of bombers, whether they could remove terrain or not -- but any stroke of destruction that did go ahead would remove all terrain, including steel, within its destruction mask.

That behaviour is undesirable for custom levels because it makes it possible to create paths through areas that the level designer intended to be impassible, so NL instead makes each stroke of destruction remove normal terrain without removing steel. This makes it impossible to take any right-side solution on Compression Method 1.

86
Challenges / Re: [NeoLemmix] Fastest Time Records
« on: May 19, 2023, 03:30:15 PM »
All NL quality-of-life features, including pausing, are fine to use. All NL challenges (unless specifically stated otherwise) require just the normal solution, not any talismans.

You can prove your result by saving a replay, by pressing the "save replay" hotkey (U by default) either after the last skill assignment, or on the postview screen.

NL has automatic replay-saving turned on by default, so you may have a replay already -- look inside Replay/Auto/Lemmings_Redux inside your NL folder.

87
SuperLemmix Bugs & Suggestions / Re: [SUG] Level top and sides
« on: May 17, 2023, 03:43:09 AM »
It's worth remembering that clear physics mode was added in response to artistic but difficult-to-interpret terrain and backgrounds, not primarily as a weapon against bad level design.

88
I use the right mouse button for highlight lemming.

89
General Discussion / Gauging interest in a UK meetup, summer 2023
« on: May 13, 2023, 03:19:16 PM »
Following on from a chat on the discord today, we are thinking of organising a meetup for those Lemmingsforums folks who live in the UK. It will most likely be in the north, since we discovered that at least three of us are located in Leeds and Liverpool, but nothing is set in stone yet. Some points to discuss before we go ahead with making definite plans:

* Who's interested?
* Anyone responding, please say where you live and whether it's possible for you to travel to a meetup location.
* What dates would be best / are there any dates we should avoid?

90
SuperLemmix Bugs & Suggestions / Re: [SUG] Level top and sides
« on: May 13, 2023, 11:19:17 AM »
I grew up with the Dos version, and the ceiling and left boundary are solid. I'm not certain about the right boundary, though I want to say it's solid just because the ceiling and the left boundary are, but one can't automatically assume this just from that.

I'm not certain about the other ports, such as Genesis, Amiga, etc.

DOS and Mac have a solid left boundary and deadly right boundary. Since the Mac version is pretty close to Amiga mechanics, in cases like this where DOS and Mac are the same then I'd guess Amiga is also the same.

This behaviour is almost certainly unintended, but I don't remember if we ever determined for certain what it was intended to be. Since the manual states that lemmings die if they fall into the "miasma" outside the level area, I would guess that the intention was for all sides to be deadly.

Genesis infamously has a solid ceiling, forcing quite a few terrain adjustments in NL conversions of the levels (including Redux). Not sure about the sides though.

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