It's in the title, really. Can the menu and level preview screens have different backgrounds?

If this could also extend to the F4 talisman info screen as well, that would also be great...

Three methods I use:

• Imagine opening a new level pack. You've never played it before, and it's called Lemmings Levels Made Just For You!. You press F2 or click the mouse to open the first level. Now think: what do you want to see. Then go from there...

• Create a level without worrying about solution/skillset/tricks - just make a cool-looking design that you like the look of. Then, give yourself loads of skills and have a go at playing it. You'll naturally create some solution or other. Whatever skills you use for that solution, make that the skillset for the level. Of course, you can tweak from here as well to make the level more ergonomic. And, alternatively - you can simply allow the player the same freedom to create their own solution by giving more skills than is needed for the solution that you found. These usually make good "x-of-each" levels.

• As Icho said: play lots. At some point, a specific level idea will just occur to you seemingly from nowhere, and you can go ahead and make the level just as you imagine it. Levels made this way tend to be either extremely backroute-prone or completely unbackrouteable/one-solution-only, depending on the complexity of the idea/the number of skills it requires/the layout of the level - there never seems to be an inbetween for these kind of levels!

Quote from: kaywhyn on May 12, 2020, 07:04:09 PM
Replays attached for level 2 and the new level 11. Level 11 is now more of a challenge but still quite easy. Apparently level 2 changed as well, as my original replay didn't work, so I had to resolve it.

Strange - your new replay isn't working either... it could be because level 2 also uses an object from my xmas tileset, I have now uploaded this to the OP.

Quote from: kaywhyn on May 12, 2020, 07:04:09 PM
it should had been mentioned in the OP that your WillLem xmas styles is needed for some levels and that it probably would be helpful if the download for the style was included... However, thanks to a very recent update to the Neolemmix engine, the style manager now takes care of any missing styles, so it's not necessary to include a download for styles anymore, so long as it gets added after getting approved.

My xmas style was available for download at the time having already been approved, but the Online Style Manager was a very new feature (just over a week old), so it's probable that a lot of players hadn't yet updated at that time - that being the case, you're absolutely right, it would have been best for me to mention it.

Apologies for any inconvenience caused and thanks again for bringing it to my attention; I've now included the style in the OP and I'll be sure to watch out for this in the future.

EDIT: It is now recommended that you use the NeoLemmix style manager to download and update all required styles

Couldn't resist.



Btw @The Tomato Watcher, if you're into art and sharing pics it's well worth getting yourself an imgur (or similar image hosting account).

I feel this deserves a separate post: the discussion has brought about what I feel is the best solution to everyone's wishes and concerns, which is this:

Rather than providing the option to permanently disable Skill Shadows, make the F3 menu options thus:

Permanently enabled: Skill Shadows will always function as they do currently, i.e by hovering the cursor over the lemming.
Hotkey-only*: Skill Shadows will only function when hovering the cursor over the lemming and pressing a Hotkey (similar to the Splat Ruler) - if it could also be made so that the Hotkey must be user-assigned, then the player would be less likely to forget about it.

So - to make it clear - there would be no way to turn Skill Shadows OFF, and the Hotkey would function as a hold-to-assign rather than a toggle that can be accidentally pressed.

This would mean that players cannot disable them altogether and then forget about them, and would mean that anyone who'd prefer them to be assignable via Hotkey-only would likely create a Hotkey for them that they'll remember, and then use them whenever they need to.

Quote from: namida on May 12, 2020, 04:56:00 AM
How many of the cases of precision you speak of were ones that skill shadows can directly help with, though?

My point was more that Skill Shadows being able to help with precision isn't a reason to have precision in a level (i.e. whether or not they can directly help with said precision), just like CPM being able to help with hidden objects isn't a reason to have hidden objects in a level.

Also, since CPM is optional (in the sense that you can turn it on and off when needed), so should Skill Shadows be. EDIT: I'd also compare Skill Shadows to the Splat Ruler: both tend to be most useful whilst the game is paused, so accessing them via a Hotkey seems the best way to implement them.

Quote from: Dullstar on May 12, 2020, 06:26:56 AM
with skill shadows, a few frames of framestepping while hovering over the lemming will find the correct placement pretty quickly
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Level designers should be encouraged to use the skill shadows, too, because the reason they help line up precise assignments can also help identify spots where a precise assignment can cause a different result than the one the designer intended.
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They can also help line up certain types of interactions when the game mechanics themselves demand some degree of precision to make a certain trick work at all.

I agree that Skill Shadows are useful, and time-saving, especially when combined with Framestepping. I also agree that Skill Shadows are remarkably helpful when it comes to finding and preventing backroutes. I also agree that there's no better way to precisely judge an intended trick.

However, I still think the player should have some degree of control over when they're visible, ideally via a Hotkey so they're always accessible in-game.

Quote from: Dullstar on May 12, 2020, 06:26:56 AM
As I mentioned, if someone turns off the skill shadows early on, by the time they need them, they may forget the option is there, particularly if it's buried away in the hotkeys menu.

I'd have to agree that it would be unfortunate for a player to disable Skill Shadows initially (perhaps because they find them off-putting), and then forget they are still there as an option.

However, if a player is bothered enough by them to turn them off, they likely won't forget about them. They're a very unique, noticeable and gameplay-affecting part of the NeoLemmix platform; I think a more likely scenario would be that a player would turn them off initially, then once they feel more comfortable that they are able to control their experience, they'd probably turn them back on to see what it's like to play with them enabled, then make the choice to either keep them on or switch them off. By this point, they're very unlikely to forget that they exist as an option.

That said, after discussion/consideration I now believe that making Skill Shadows either permanently enabled (default) or hold-to-assign via a Hotkey (like the Splat Ruler) would likely be the best solution to all scenarios, rather than offering the option to turn them off altogether.

Backroute fix for level 11 Citizen Lemming - thanks to kaywhyn for spotting this one!

The original replay still works, so the intended solution is the same.

Quote from: kaywhyn on May 12, 2020, 07:09:19 AM
I finished the pack. For the most part, these levels weren't too bad, even if they were all somewhat on the easy side.

Glad to know! My intention was for this pack to never be more than about medium difficulty.

Spoiler

Quote from: kaywhyn on May 12, 2020, 07:09:19 AM
Tame 3 - there was a square with a question mark in the air...Since the snowman obstacle is now there, that probably means the level didn't load up the graphics correctly.

This is correct: the square with the question mark represents missing graphics.

Quote from: kaywhyn on May 12, 2020, 07:09:19 AM
your second post mentioned that you made some graphics changes, which somehow escaped me, so that probably means the level originally was not solvable.

The level has always been solvable (as per the replay I included with the pack), and the snowman graphic has always been there; it's part of the willlem_xmas style, which you may not have had at that time.

Quote from: kaywhyn on May 12, 2020, 07:09:19 AM
Tame 11 - I'm not sure what those other skills are for. Just a dig and a bash and done.

Yeah, that's a backroute I hadn't spotted initially - thanks for bringing it to my attention. I've now fixed it (see next message for download).

Quote from: kaywhyn on May 12, 2020, 07:09:19 AM
Tame 20 - This is level 11 in the original ONML, so I'm not sure why it occupies the final level spot in this pack.

That was a last-minute decision. I just thought it would be fun to end the pack with this one, so I changed the order.

Thanks for the comments and the replays, and for taking the time to play through the pack. It's certainly not one of my best remix packs, but it did help me to learn a lot about level creation. I'm glad you enjoyed it, anyway.

Also, could it be possible to open levels via drag & drop into the Editor?

Quote from: Dullstar on May 11, 2020, 05:39:42 PM
When they weren't a feature at all, you really needed to make sure that skill assignments weren't overly precise. Now that they are present, levels can get away with these precise assignments without it being an issue

In a recent discussion about hidden objects, I made the argument that Clear Physics Mode means that hidden stuff is no longer an issue: whilst this may be true, the community still (mostly) considers hidden objects to be a bad design choice; not only does CPM make hidden stuff irrelevant, but having to use it on every level to check for hidden objects isn't something any player wants to do. I've now discontinued the practice of hiding stuff, having been convinced by these discussions that hiding objects is a bad design choice because of CPM, not in spite of it.

The point being that just because a player assist tool makes something easier or less of a problem doesn't mean that levels should contain those elements. Whether Skill Shadows become optional or not, it's still considered bad level design to make overly precise levels - I've been criticised for this a number of times.

So, in the same way that you wouldn't play with Clear Physics Mode permanently enabled just in case you happen upon a level with a hidden exit, Skill Shadows shouldn't be kept permanently enabled just in case you happen upon a level requiring precise skill application.

Skill Shadows are an assistive feature, and for that reason alone ought to be optional.

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Pepsi Max Cherry is the best soft drink of them all!

Who is your favourite Simpsons character and why?

This one extracts to a bunch of DAT files (which then extract to empty folders).

Congratulations, you are now a skeleton.

I wish I had a DeLorean.

Quote from: Dullstar on May 11, 2020, 09:40:12 AM
The player should not have to tweak their options to play certain content, and level designers shouldn't have to account for the player's options when designing the level.

That's why I think it should be a hotkey that's accessible at any time rather than a menu option.

Quote from: Dullstar on May 11, 2020, 09:40:12 AM
Some players might disable the skill shadows, play some content that doesn't really need them, and then forget about the option's existence by the time they encounter a level that requires it.

Not a problem: if players disable Skill Shadows in the first place, it's because they prefer to play with them off. They are likely to be skilled enough to make it through such a level with or without them.

I agree with Proxima that the difficulty of the game without Skill Shadows is being overstated here. Skills Shadows are meant to be an assistive tool, not a required/mandatory feature: if a pack cannot be played without them, then that's the fault of the pack, not the player or the option.

Also, again - this is why I'm suggesting it be implemented as a hotkey, so it's always accessible in-game, even to players who prefer to have the Skill Shadows switched off.

Quote from: Dullstar on May 11, 2020, 09:40:12 AM
I think a hotkey to disable skill shadows is a bad idea; my reasoning is basically identical to Icho's:

Quote from: IchoTolot on May 06, 2020, 05:34:27 PM
It's just because new players may hit it unwillingly by accident and then just struggle through the game with no explanation what happened.

I'm now saying this for the third time, and I'm not sure how I can make it any clearer:

"it could be that there is no default Hotkey assigned for Skill Shadows, so players must go into the F3 menu and customise one themselves. This would ensure that players know which key toggles the Skill Shadows on and off, and eliminates the problem of a player accidentally toggling them off when they don't want to (and then not being able to switch them back on)."

Quote from: Dullstar on May 11, 2020, 09:40:12 AM
If we were to include a menu option, a hotkey like with Clear Physics to temporarily show them would be useful. But, when they are enabled, the hotkey should do nothing, as for players who don't go out of their way to disable skill shadows in the menu, this behavior is never desirable. The opposite, however, is potentially useful and would deserve a default setting (I'm envisioning this as a hotkey to be held down).

Yes, very much agreed! This is a good idea, and would likely keep everyone happy on both sides of the debate.

Essentially, what I'm suggesting is that Skill Shadows be given the same status/usage as Clear Physics Mode - it's there when you need it, but you can ignore it if you want to. The moment a level requires either of these features in order to be possible, then it's the fault of the design; people have been making that very clear to me since I joined the forums!

Nice! I'll give this pack a playthrough, for sure. Where did you get the Atari music from?