Author Topic: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)  (Read 16096 times)

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Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #75 on: October 12, 2022, 11:57:41 PM »
@Icho

Yup, both are still backroutes to my R1 and R2, but I think they're still fixable to force the intended solution even if it's getting rather annoying and depressing for me, especially the latter. The very massive changelogs for my levels in the update topic doesn't help matters :'(

R1 - For V9, I added some small square steel blocks right where the flamethrowers near the entrance are. It should hopefully now be clear that releasing the crowd out to the left is not my intention :P I think there might still be another problematic area and so probably not all backroutes have been caught yet, but let's see.

R2 - Well, now once again the blockers have been the source of backroutes, so now for V14 away they go and are now pickups on the other side of the water pit to the right of the entrance! Heck, I may as well make everything pickups, as it seems that no matter how good the puzzles are I can't get any of my levels to work without making anything pickups :(
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #76 on: October 13, 2022, 05:49:41 AM »
@IchoTolot
I think you already know, but all your solutions to my levels are intended :thumbsup:

@kaywhyn
Thanks for spotting the cheesy backroute! :XD: I probably will fix it after the contest(adding OWW as you suggested :thumbsup:)

My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #77 on: October 13, 2022, 07:05:46 PM »
@kaywhyn   I sadly suspect more backroutes here.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #78 on: October 13, 2022, 09:45:18 PM »
@Icho

R1 - I kind of suspected that there can be some stoner abuse shenanigans near the entrance, I knew I should had shifted the entrance over :forehead: That's exactly what I did for V10: Shifted the entrance a few pixels to the right. Also added another steel block to the floating platform near the entrance. Finally, shifted the flamethrower on its steel platform at the far upper right area to the left and down some. I'm still not feeling confident that this will force the intended solution completely, but I'm really hoping it will be closer than all solutions I've seen. It still avoids some tricks I've intended completely!

R2 - Never would had thought this level would be so hard to fix up :( For V15, added another block of terrain near the exit and changed the left facing OWAs to be pointing downwards.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #79 on: October 14, 2022, 10:13:24 PM »
@kaywhyn This should be another round of backroutes.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #80 on: October 15, 2022, 06:24:19 PM »
@Icho

Well, I guess what comes around goes around. I gave you a hard time with your R1 when I pre-tested and backrouted it numerous times. Now it's the other way around, where you're giving me a hard time with both my R1 and R2 :(

R1 - Many changes here for V11: 3 of the stackers are pickups, 1 of the diggers is a pickup, and both stoners are pickups. Also added another steel block and erased a bit of it, as well as shifted the flamethrower and its steel platform on the far upper right in such a way so that its trigger area overlaps that of the erased part of the steel block.

R2 - Ugh, every part of the map is being used against me, including the huge red block of terrain where the barrel is! :XD: For V16, added right-facing OWAs on it. I guess really adding to and prettying up the level really worked against me this time. It doesn't even look as pretty anymore with all the OWAs, but as you know from your experiences, sometimes that's the way it is, when it comes to forcing the intended solution, even at the cost of aesthetics.

I really do hope this is the last time I need to fix up these two levels of mine. Backroute fixing my own levels really stresses me out :(
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #81 on: October 15, 2022, 08:25:32 PM »
@kaywhyn

Sadly, I bring bad news. :'(

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #82 on: October 15, 2022, 09:12:28 PM »
@Icho

:( indeed for both R1 and R2

R1 - Added another small steel block to the floating platform right by the entrance and also shifted the entrance a few more pixels to the right for V12

R2 - Changed the OWAs below the exit to point downwards instead for V17. That now hopefully covers all shenanigans you might pull off with the bombers/laser around the middle area to allow you to cheese your way to victory :crylaugh:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #83 on: October 16, 2022, 03:59:07 PM »
@ kaywhyn

R2 is still a backroute, but I could at least be somewhat close with the R1 solution.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #84 on: October 16, 2022, 08:50:14 PM »
@Icho

R1 - You are correct, we're getting very close now! :thumbsup: Thank goodness, because every solution I've seen is quite far from intended, and it only seems to get farther and farther with every version :XD: Seems like the small steel block added to the floating platform near the entrance was very critical. Everything to the left of the entrance is now intended except for the sacrifice and hence that led to some skill savings. There's still some intended tricks that are missing on the right side that I haven't seen in any solution from either you or Armani. However, I might had found a way to finally enforce them. For V13, decreased the stoner pickup quantity to 1 and moved the other stoner pickup to the far right side. Also replaced two of the steel blocks in that area with a right triangle one and added a small square steel block to its bottom left corner, and finally shifted the firebox trap below several pixels to the left. I think this will finally do it, but feel free to prove me wrong, which is probably likely given your solving caliber and your uncanny ability to backroute anything thrown at you :crylaugh:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

R2 - Nice backroute there. For V18, decreased the blocker pickup quantity to 1 and moved the other two blocker pickups to the same area as the cloner pickups. Also added more right-facing OWAs on the terrain where the laser was misused. In the process, I also discovered another very bad backroute and hence added right facing OWAs to the terrain below the one with arrows facing both the left and right. Think this will finally do it but again feel free to prove me wrong :P
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #85 on: October 17, 2022, 02:04:33 AM »
Finally I had some time to resolve kaywhyn's r1 ;)
The first solution is probably another huge backroute but the second solution seems promising although I have a leftover stoner. ;)
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #86 on: October 17, 2022, 04:02:59 AM »
@Armani

R1 - Oof, the first solution is indeed a very bad backroute. For V14, I made the digger a pickup in midair on the far right, as well as added another firebox trap. This added trap might not even be necessary, but by this point I'm just going to make doubly sure no more cheesy stuff can be tried in that area :P

Your second solution is indeed almost intended! :thumbsup: The only thing that isn't intended in your second replay is how you released the crowd. Same fixes I mentioned above apply for this backroute too.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #87 on: October 17, 2022, 05:09:34 AM »
I think we finally made it 8-)
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #88 on: October 17, 2022, 05:36:24 AM »
@Armani

And that is 100% intended! Great job for being the first to find it to what I assess to be my most difficult level I have ever made thus far :thumbsup:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thanks so much for persevering in resolving and all the replays! :thumbsup:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #26 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #89 on: October 17, 2022, 01:44:21 PM »
@Armani

R1 - Thank you so much for showing me a timing heavy solution on Discord that spared you a few skills after you had found the intended solution :thumbsup: I originally said that it was an acceptable challenge solution, but I changed my mind after I found out that one of the tricks I intended would not be required anymore with one of the leftover skills. Thus, I decided to release a fix, and I managed to come up with a far better fix than what I was thinking of on Discord. For V15, the steel platform where the button is in the upper right area has some changes: Added a vertical steel block on the far right, two more steel blocks on the left, and added a firebox trap to the left of the button. Also shifted the button over a few pixels to the left, and then finally shifted down the platform several pixels. So, I apologize for breaking your replay of the intended solution. However, you already have the intended solution from V14, and so you don't need to send me your new replay for V15, only if you found another solution that needs my attention that I wasn't aware of. All you have to do here is reassign two of the skills in the same places if you wish once the lemming arrives, as the timing will change a bit but not significantly to impact the intended solution heavily ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0