Author Topic: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]  (Read 40519 times)

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Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]
« Reply #150 on: January 25, 2021, 07:24:33 PM »
For the music: Be careful with putting in the music of the YouTube LP. It is most likely that he used a different track for every single level --> Your SL conversion will get VERY bloated in terns of filesize + filecount and you then have 145 music tracks just for this pack! It is likely a reason why the original Lemmini version did not do this (and also Lemmini not supporting MP3).

125. You're thinking of Pimolems :P

You are right. Still, 125 music tracks is not much better. ;P

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]
« Reply #151 on: January 25, 2021, 08:47:52 PM »
yes I know music bloats my SL, but this doesn't bother me. Also In the Lemmings Reunion pack I gave the choice even to use the NL version music(which uses ogg-not in the original Lemmini version which uses the .mods-less space). But I enjoy better music. And since Dodo in his Youtube Dovelems LP uses other music, I still will give the choice like I did with Reunion.

and as far as being in MP3 that's not a problem as I use an online converter to convert to .ogg like I did with many for Dodo's franlems, cachapac and dodopac

Offline WillLem

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Re: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]
« Reply #152 on: January 26, 2021, 06:20:41 AM »
To be fair, music isn't that bloating (as compared to, say, video files), especially when it's in a compressed format like OGG, MOD or even MP3.

Also, once you have the music in your collection it's there for any pack that may use it, and gives you the opportunity to use it for your own packs.

Online Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]
« Reply #153 on: February 10, 2021, 01:08:15 PM »
Replays for the Devilish rank. Not a huge amount to comment on in this rank -- don't think I found any real backroutes, though I sometimes had skills left over through being a bit more efficient than the level required.

WillLem and I were playing this together last night and we both commented on Level 17 "Maze in a Clepsydra". This requires one miner to release another, at the end of a long solution, with no skills available to correct the timing if it isn't already correct. As you know, this trick is relatively easy to pull off on most versions of Lemmings, but extremely fiddly on NL, requiring the relative timing of the two lemmings to be frame-precise. Not sure there is anything you can do about it without spoiling the puzzle, but felt it should be pointed out.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]
« Reply #154 on: February 18, 2021, 04:46:06 PM »
The solutions are all acceptable or intended. :)

Quote
As you know, this trick is relatively easy to pull off on most versions of Lemmings, but extremely fiddly on NL, requiring the relative timing of the two lemmings to be frame-precise. Not sure there is anything you can do about it without spoiling the puzzle, but felt it should be pointed out.

Yeah, this is the problem of the level in general and there isn't really something I can do about it without completely changing the level. You mostly can achive this by varying the assignment of the skills before especially the miner position. It isn't totally frame perfect though and there is a LITTLE bit of leeway.


Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]
« Reply #155 on: August 19, 2021, 01:48:51 PM »
I completely forgot that ShmoLem sent me DoveLems replays as well! Again they seem to be played on an older version as some replays were broken. The broken replays were:

1 20
3 14, 3 18, 3 21, 3 25, 3 27, 3 30
4 23
5 05

There were 2 backroutes though. -->

V 3.6 is out!

Backroute fixes based on ShmoLem's replays:

- 3 16 (some terrain changes)
- 3 26 (some terrain changes)


Offline jkapp76

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Re: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]
« Reply #156 on: August 20, 2021, 03:11:22 AM »
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZSCxKXZuvFk9ine5XJrWSopFvDQr0q8JFzV

Here is a music pack for DoveLems. I downloaded this long ago for SuperLemmini and all I did here was create the Music.nxmi file and organize it so it plays in the correct order.

The download size is 378mb, so it's big, but I think it's worth the time. Just place the "Dovelems music" folder in your "music" folder and put the Music.nxmi file in your DoveLems Level folder.
...Jeremy Kapp

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]
« Reply #157 on: August 20, 2021, 03:44:31 AM »
good job jkapp76. This is Dodo's choice of music he uses on his youtube channel when replaying his levels. I use this music also in Superlemmini's version, as it's better than the default amiga tunes.

Online Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]
« Reply #158 on: September 26, 2021, 03:34:53 PM »
Replays for the Maso and Bonus ranks. There were just a couple of levels where I want to raise concerns:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Online Proxima

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Re: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]
« Reply #159 on: September 26, 2021, 03:39:26 PM »
I solved all the levels.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]
« Reply #160 on: September 26, 2021, 03:52:48 PM »
Will see when I get to the replays. I will probably be away next weekend but maybe I find time+mood to get through them during the week. :)

The Crossing was a level where I basically just let it be by now as quite a few alternatives popped up that are not really patchable. The moving the exit thing I will look into though. I will need to check if moving it will make other solutions extra tight.
The Hard Nut solutions looks like backroute though and I tend to patch it out, but I will see during the replay watching. :)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]
« Reply #161 on: September 27, 2021, 02:56:11 PM »
V 3.7 is out!

Backroute fixes based on Proxima's replays:

- 4 11 (changed the bottom OWW to go both sides.)
- 4 13 (a builder is now a pick-up skill)

I've decided to not change Maso 17 "The Crossing (Part III)" because:

- Your solution that fails is actually the backroute I tried to block all the time.
- Your other solution that leaves 9 seconds is a variant of the intended one, even if it doesn't feel quite intended to you.
- Other viable solutions leave pretty much no time on the clock --> Moving the exits would make your backroute viable and on the other hand block intended solutions.

Let's say the level is not my favorite either and personally I would not include it in my own packs. At this point I only change it around when absolutely nessesary as even slight changes often introduce backroutes or make viable solutions unviable.

Quote
Bonus 5 "Lemmings' Ark": This is just the original level. Should this still be packaged together with DoveLems, now that it is easily available to NL players in both the Genesis levels pack and Lemmings Redux?

Dodo wanted the level in the bonus rank of the pack and I think even if it is somewhat redundant now it's fine.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]
« Reply #162 on: January 20, 2024, 01:55:22 AM »
First two ranks complete. Replays attached and of course feedback, though of course would be more useful for Dodochacalo since Icho simply maintains the conversion of the pack.

General Feedback

DoveLems is a custom Lemmings level pack by Dodochacalo. While MazuLems was the very first custom level pack I ever played, DoveLems would be the very first huge, full game I ever played. I'll never forget how I found out about the pack thanks to rtw's LP of it. I remember searching for "custom Lemmings levels" or something like that on Youtube, and one of the things that popped up was a video by rtw which showed what the Lemmini engine was capable of. I immediately got hooked, and so I set off to set it up on my computer :laugh: Then I went to get the pack itself, which I think might had led me to the Lemmings Forums, though it wouldn't be for several more years before I became a registered member of the site. Thus began my foray into the custom Lemmings scene on a port other than Dos, the one I grew up with. I ended up finishing the pack in about a week, I believe, back in the days on Lemmini. I don't exactly remember when I downloaded the pack, but I'm certain it was either one of 2012, 2013, or 2014. I'm thinking the last one of the three, as that was when I played through PimoLems before I didn't come back to the pack until 2017, when I finally did finish Pieuw's pack. I definitely finished DoveLems before playing through PimoLems, though, since the latter was the second custom level pack on Lemmini I played through. According to files on my hard drive, it appears I did indeed play through DoveLems in 2014.

Just to clarify in case I confused anyone, I have only played the Lemmini version of DoveLems. I haven't yet played Icho's NL conversion of the pack. I feel that now's a good time for me to finally do so, as I have already played through his conversion of Lemmings Reunion and Pieuw's PimoLems to NL. Time for me to finish up the triangle here! The interesting thing is that I went backwards for NL. On Lemmini, in order, first I did DoveLems, then PimoLems, and finally Lemmings Reunion. Whereas for NL, I first did Lemmings Reunion, then PimoLems, and finally I'm doing DoveLems. Icho has definitely did a great job with his own Reunion pack and same thing with maintaining the NL conversions of the other two level packs, one from Dodochacalo, the other from Pieuw.

Also, I think I only watched either the first or second level of rtw's video before I decided to try out the pack myself. I think I remember watching more of his LP as I completed more of the pack just to compare and also because it's fun to hear how his experience with the pack/levels was. I definitely was blown away by Dodochacalo's pack at the time and when I finished it. Indeed, the pack's popularity can be seen in this thread from how several members have finished the pack. Going through the pack again after so long has definitely reminded me why I like Dodochacalo's pack a lot. Not to mention that it's great going back to easier than usual levels again after a long time, when I've played nothing but hard levels for the last several months.

As it's been a long time since I last played through DoveLems, I definitely have forgotten a lot of the levels, especially from the first two ranks, Plain and Coward. At the same time, I did see resemblance of Dodochacalo's level building style with that of Pieuw's in some of the Coward levels. Indeed, Pieuw has confirmed that back in the days he and Dodochacalo bounced off a lot of ideas from one another for their levels. Needless to say, they got a lot of inspiration from one another.

Not relevant to this topic, but Dodochacalo has also authored two mini 10-level packs, as well as FranLems, a 40-level pack that is entirely in French, as he hails from France, just like Pieuw, the author of PimoLems. These packs are also all for Lemmini. I too remember starting FranLems, got stuck on some Pillar level, and didn't come back to the pack for a while, though I can't recall if I finished that before or after PimoLems.

I think it's now been about a year or so, but Pieuw gave us word that he and Dodochacalo are currently collaborating with each other on a new level pack. However, Pieuw hasn't been able to get a hold of Dodochacalo for a while, and so it appears that progress has come to a halt for the time being. In particular, Pieuw doesn't wish to touch any of Dodochacalo's levels without his permission, and so he simply is working on making changes to his own levels or making new ones without the latter's contribution. I'm hoping Pieuw does eventually get a hold of him, as I would definitely love to see their finished pack. I really like both DoveLems and PimoLems and think quite highly of them. Recently, I saw that Dodochacalo released an update for his Lemmini packs near the end of 2023 according to Dropbox info, while NeoDoveLems' Dropbox link hasn't been updated since 2021.

I'm not sure if Dodochacalo was ever a member of this site, so maybe a longtime member can confirm this?

Plain Rank Feedback

The first rank of the pack, it starts off with mostly single skill type tutorial levels, followed by easy levels/puzzles. However, I must say that while going through the rank that honestly I don't remember the difficulty being very wonky. That's how long it's been since I last played the pack on Lemmini. For example, I got stuck longer than I should had on both Plain 11 and Plain 30, though to be fair for the latter it is the final level of the rank. It definitely didn't help that I was doing a very late night solving session, and as we probably all know when you're exhausted you tend to not think clearly mentally. Thus, for the former it made me wonder what it was doing that early in the rank, especially as it was a limited skills level mixed in with the X-of-everythings around it. Then again, the pack is more patched up than it is on Lemmini and therefore the levels are likely more challenging than they should be as a result. Even then, the pack's difficulty still doesn't come anywhere near those of some packs that were later released, such as Reunion and NepsterLems.

Plain 1 - Again our Famous Lemmings ! Good level that is a great way to ease oneself into the custom Lemmings scene and get back into the game of Lemmings, though my nitpick is the first miner is more precise than it needs to be and therefore this can probably be a bit too harsh in players' eyes for the first level of the pack. Then again, you only need to save 4 out of 20 so that even if you don't place the first miner correctly you can still savage the level and convert it to a solve.

Plain 8 - The Snowy Base Hmm yea, this level seems quite a bit difficult for its position because of the skillset, though again the save requirement is extremely lenient.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Plain 11 - Concentration Camp As mentioned, I was stumped here for a bit but again it didn't help that I was doing a very late night solving session. I still stand by the assertion that this level seems a bit hard for its position, though I know the ordering won't change since this is Dodochacalo's pack and therefore Icho simply kept the level order as it is.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Plain 15 - Ground Floor, Please Great level and a fun one to go for the extra challenge of a save all :thumbsup:

Plain 19 - Yours Diabolically Another really fun one to go for a save all, even if it's a bit repetitive ;)

Plain 20 - Wooden House Hmm, I'm not sure how I feel about the major changes to the skillset here because of SYCLW. This seems very harsh for a first rank level now!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Plain 23 - Can you Bomb It? Another level that seems a bit harsh, though in fairness it is close to the end of the rank. In addition, the same solution for its repeat in the next rank can be used here, though of course there's still multiple ways to solve this one.

Plain 26 - Stalactites or Shortcut ! An excellent level with a time limit that's well-justified! :thumbsup:

Plain 27 - Lemmings on the Spot I really like the sense of urgency of finishing on time here! ;)

Plain 28 - Here's the Final Flourish Another level that's probably too harsh for a first rank, though again it's justified being near the very end of the rank.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Plain 30 - Cisterns, Chains and Blocks The other level that I got stumped on longer than necessary but a really good one to finish off the rank, particularly since it has some elements that haven't been seen in any of the earlier levels of the rank.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Coward Rank Feedback

Being the second rank, the levels here are a bit harder than the ones in the previous rank. Interestingly enough, I cruised through the rank a bit faster than I did with the Plain rank.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Looking forward to going through the remaining two main ranks of the pack! Definitely enjoying DoveLems again after so long and remembering why I think it's an excellent pack in the first place! :thumbsup:   
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]
« Reply #163 on: January 21, 2024, 09:02:11 AM »
I was just on a roll both yesterday and today and played and solved the rest of the pack, so it's all complete and therefore my entire replay collection is attached and of course some additional feedback :)

Devilish Rank Feedback

Things really start to pick up in the difficulty here, though they don't peak here. Instead, that would be for the Maso rank. Once again, while going through this rank, there were a lot of levels that I didn't remember here. In addition, some of the levels got me wondering whether I was playing a DoveLems level or a PimoLems level, as I definitely remember a similar level from the latter, whether in the design or possibly even the level title. Not to mention some of them did get me to go, "This is a DoveLems level? Wow, I actually don't remember some of these!" Yup, that's how long it's been since I last went through the entire pack on Lemmini!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Maso Rank Feedback

The hardest levels of the pack are here, as this is the final main rank. To be honest, I didn't struggle as long as I thought I would, even though it's been years since I last played the pack. There's definitely some standout gems here, though!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Bonus Rank Feedback

Just 5 additional challenges after you finish the main pack. Out of these, Bonus 1 was the hardest one for me aside from Maso 11. Bonus 5 won't be spoiler tagged, since I think there's plenty who are familiar with the level as it comes from the Genesis/Megadrive port, but that one took me a while because I couldn't get the middle area to work out. Turns out I didn't do it correctly from some of the earlier parts. I definitely remember this one taking me a while when I first played the Genesis/Megadrive port on an emulator years ago! A much more worthy level to finish the Mayhem rank on IMO!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


All rightie, I have now finished all of Icho's NL level pack conversions now that I have gone through DoveLems but on NL. This was definitely a nice trip down memory lane, even if I have forgotten a lot of the levels, as well as great coming back to easier levels again after a long time. The pack does get challenging near the very end, like most easy/medium packs do, but these hard levels are very satisfying to figure out, especially with them more patched up than they are on Lemmini.

Thanks for this conversion Icho, you did great here! Now let's see if I backrouted any of these and therefore a change/update is needed. I'm guessing maybe one or a few ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Pieuw

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Re: [NeoLemmix] DoveLems [Difficulty: Easy-Medium]
« Reply #164 on: January 22, 2024, 02:31:27 PM »
Well done Kaywhyn! As always your feedback is super interesting to read and brings back lots of memories.

Quote
Maso 17 - The Crossing (Part III) Hmm, I wonder where the other two such levels are. I honestly can't recall right now.
I can answer this. :)
Two levels from Pimolems, Hugs & Kisses and Candelabrum, were originally called something like The Crossing and The Crossing part 2 respectively. Dodochacalo also made his version of the crossing :laugh: