Author Topic: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)  (Read 5641 times)

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Offline IchoTolot

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All zips only need to be unzipped inside the main folder of your NeoLemmix Player!

NeoLemmix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/s/pn7lzbqf4kuq2ja/Contest_23.zip?dl=1

Music: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6kai36r33yrf0px/Contest_23_Music.zip?dl=1

Rule 1 Levels

Armani's "Cactus Valley" (V1)
IchoTolot's "Craze Or Crazy?" (V1)
Kaywhyn's "Everything Comes in Twos?" (V10)
Kingshadow3's "The Monkey Cave" (V4)


Rule 2 Levels

Armani's "Brakes Failed" (V2)
IchoTolot's "Retspen's Tomb" (V1)
Kaywhyn's "30 Seconds Before the Final Curtain Call" (V8)
Kingshadow3's "Master Of The Minute" (V6)


Rule 3 Levels

Armani's "The Age of Affluence" (V1)
IchoTolot's "Countdown To Meltdown" (V1)
Kaywhyn's "Cross Over Into the Light, My Lems!" (V5)
Kingshadow3's "Straight And Curved" (V3)


You can check the rules details again here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5599.0

Playing Phase will be closed on 20th of August!
Updates will close on 17th of August!


Note: This topic is for posting your comments, replays, etc for the levels. If you wish to post an update to your level, or enter a late submission, please do so in the Updates Topic instead.

Link to update topic
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 03:37:16 PM by IchoTolot »

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2021, 03:05:00 PM »
Solved Kaywhyn's "30 Seconds Before the Final Curtain Call". Just completed it in time. @Kaywhyn I need to verify if this is the intended solution.

EDIT: Also solved Kaywhyn's "Cross Over Into the Light, My Lems!". This seems like the intended solution but I'm not sure.

EDIT2: Armani's "Cactus Valley" is another one I've solved. I really like the solution I found for this one.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2021, 06:37:33 PM by Kingshadow3 »

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2021, 06:40:13 PM »
@Kingshadow3 Thanks for playing my R2 and R3! :thumbsup: Your solutions to them are backroutes and hence not intended. R3 was easy enough to fix. I needed to think for a bit for my R2. Both V2's have been uploaded. Let's see how they hold up and if they block your backroutes now! :P

Again, thanks for playing. Now just need to see my R1, but I'm guessing you need more time to think about it?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2021, 08:44:55 PM »
ok, solved Kaywhyn's Rule 1 level.

Saved 1 over the minimum since I had a stoner left. Most likely a backroute.



Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2021, 09:19:39 PM »
@eric That is a very bad backroute to my R1! :XD: I have uploaded V2 of my R1. The change there are some pickup skills. Let's see if it stops your backrouting to it now! :P

I have solved both Armani's R1 and KingShadow3's R1. My replays are attached. Also, I started an LP of the contest levels. Here are the links to them. Enjoy! :P

Part 1: https://youtu.be/rjmqT2GodEU

Part 2: https://youtu.be/ootqJnIsVKY

Armani's Cactus Valley R1V1 (click to show/hide)


The rest of my LP of the contest levels will follow as soon as I can get to them! ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2021, 10:00:12 PM »
Thank you for finding this backroute kaywhyn. :D I've modified the terrain near the hatch to fix this. Check the update topic.

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2021, 04:45:21 AM »
Both of you found exactly the intended solution! Well done :thumbsup:
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2021, 05:22:35 AM »
Solved rule1 levels.
There only 3 levels to solve per rank, so I might try to solve rule2 and rule3 levels today as well. ;)

Craze Or Crazy (click to show/hide)

Everything Comes in Twos? (click to show/hide)

The Monkey Cave (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2021, 05:28:31 AM »
Solved the remaining R2 and R3 levels which I haven't seen/played yet. My replays for Armani's R2 and R3, as well as KingShadow3's R2 and R3, are attached. I smell backroutes for KingShadow3's R2 and Armani's R3 :P Maybe KingShadow3's R3 as well, but it might be acceptable?

Also links to the remaining LP videos. Enjoy! :P

Part 3: https://youtu.be/mh6Jio1y4UE

Part 4: https://youtu.be/8QeaQglTJPY

Part 5: https://youtu.be/m142MH8wx5E

   

Armani's Brakes Failed R2V1 (click to show/hide)





All rightie, since I have solved every contest level at least once, Part 5 will be the last video in the LP series for a while. When I return to record in maybe a few weeks or possibly closer to the closing date of the playing phase, I will simply be showing off the intended solutions to the contest levels once I resolve all updated levels and all solutions are acceptable. I will also show off my solutions to Icho's contest levels, as well as the intended solutions to my own contest levels, next time! ;) I pretested Icho's contest levels once again, and so along with my own contest levels, there were only 2 levels per rule I needed to play and solve in my LP :P

I will include my entire replay collection for the LDC #23 levels at a later time! ;)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2021, 10:28:03 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2021, 05:49:00 AM »
@Armani - V3 of my R1 uploaded! Slight terrain shift to block your backroute. Let's see how this holds up now :P
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2021, 06:13:16 AM »
@kaywhyn (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2021, 07:21:39 AM »
@Armani That was the intended solution to my R1. Congrats! :thumbsup:

@Kaywhyn For R2, I've encountered multiple backroutes with this level playtesting myself before I submitted it (A lot of them involved the stacker to the point to that I had to make it a pickup skill). I didn't expect to see another one. I actually thought the small holes in the terrain would prevent such a thing from happening. Looks like I was mistaken. :lem-shocked:
For R3, sequence breaking the order of which balls you build/plaform to has been patched out. This level is pretty open. The intended solutions (There are multiple intended ways to free the lems) can spare 1 builder or platformer.

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2021, 09:28:58 AM »
Solved rest of the levels.

Everything Comes in Twos(V3) (click to show/hide)

Retspen's Tomb(V1) (click to show/hide)


Master Of The Minute(V2) (click to show/hide)

Countdown To Meltdown(V1) (click to show/hide)


Straight And Curved(V2) (click to show/hide)
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2021, 10:08:14 AM »
Updated my Rule 2 again. This one is a pain to backroute fix. :XD: I had to make the builders pickup skills and lock the release rate. See the update topic for R2V3.

@Armani Your solution to my Rule 3 is an intended one. There are multiple ways to free the crowd (One of which spares a constructive skill). My R3 is pretty open. ;P
« Last Edit: July 11, 2021, 10:16:26 AM by Kingshadow3 »

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2021, 10:12:37 AM »
@Armani Your solution to my R1 is about 95% intended. I have uploaded V4 of my R1 by making a stacker a pickup. This should be it with V4! :laugh:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Your solution to my R2 is 100% intended. Well done! :thumbsup:

For R3, your solution is 99% intended! I added OWAs, so all you need to do is tweak one skill assignment and then you'll have the intended solution ;)

Finally, for your solutions to Icho's levels, by my pre-testing, I can confirm that they're all 100% intended. Well done! :thumbsup: For the second solution to his R3, I say that's an acceptable alternative that spares a skill and definitely one that I could had found as well in my pre-testing. However, it's Icho's call, as I didn't make his levels :P
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2021, 12:36:38 AM »
Solved updated levels.

Everything Comes in Twos(V4) (click to show/hide)

Master Of The Minute(V3) (click to show/hide)

Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2021, 01:32:18 AM »
@Armani - Awesome, your solutions to both my R1 and R3 are now 100% intended! Well done! :thumbsup:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Looks like I'm already improving a lot in backroute fixing my own levels in just two LDCs, as here I ended up taking half the amount of versions in contrast to the previous LDC, which was the very first one where I made levels. That is, until Icho or someone else comes along and finds a way to backroute my level(s) :crylaugh:

I'll be back in a few weeks to resolve levels, so it'll be some time before I get to resolving your R2.

Thanks so much for playing my levels, as usual, and the really great feedback and compliments on my levels! :) Regarding your own levels, I think I have to say your R1 is my favorite of the three. Very deceptively difficult but I absolutely love the overall solution and the tricks needed
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2021, 06:22:23 AM »
Updated Rule 2. I tried fixing Armani's backroute by adding an overhang but then found another backroute myself. I've decided to split builders between 2 pickup skills to fix my own backroute.

EDIT: V4 had a backroute as well that I found so I also swapped the amounts of the two pickup skills.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 12:44:12 PM by Kingshadow3 »

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2021, 02:53:19 PM »
@Armani    All your solutions to my levels are 100% intended! Great job! :thumbsup:

And yes I didn't want to enforce the precise timing on my R3 level. I suspected that it was possible without the walker when making it, but I am not a fan of that and hey the walker did not break anything so far ;)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2021, 11:33:54 AM »
As updates slow down a bit, I think I will try to record my playthrough on 26th/27th as I have these days off.
So if there are anymore updates waiting in line before that it would be good to get them out in time. ;)

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2021, 12:12:23 PM »
More backroutes :P
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2021, 01:13:40 PM »
More backroutes :P

Did you do these with a previous build of the level? Both Replays don't work with V5. Those backroutes may already have been fixed in V5.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 01:19:17 PM by Kingshadow3 »

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2021, 01:36:51 PM »
:forehead: You are right, I wasn't playing the latest version.
Here's the new solution for V5.
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2021, 03:33:58 PM »
V6 Update. @Ichotolot Make sure you update to V6 of my Rule 2 before you record your playthrough.
I'm starting to regret making this level :XD:. I've added a thin OWW to the level. It was going to be a trap but then discovered that based on where it was placed it either could still be cheesed or it broke the intended solution.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2021, 11:07:08 PM »
Finally back again to resolve updated levels. Resolved KingShadow3's levels, as well as Armani's R2 level. I think KingShadow3's R1 might still be a backroute, as I have a miner and a floater leftover. Also, I simply used a cloner to meet the save requirement.

Armani's Brakes Failed R2V2 (click to show/hide)


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2021, 03:46:47 AM »
@Kingshadow3
This seems better, as I have no leftover skill this time.

@kaywhyn
Intended :thumbsup:

Armani's Brakes Failed R2V2 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


EDIT: put kaywhyn's post inside the spoiler tag
« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 03:44:09 AM by Armani »
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2021, 04:40:43 AM »
@Armani Awesome that I now have the intended or acceptable solutions to all of your contest levels ;) Just as a tip, if you quot my post, you'll notice the 2 "spoiler" tags at the beginning and end of my post so that when you click on "preview" you'll see "spoiler" instead of what's underneath, like it is currently. All you have to do is simply take out everything but the sentence you quoted and leave both [spoiler/] tags in so that nothing is revealed unless people click to show/hide.

Your R1 is still my favorite out of your contest levels, although your R2 is a very close tie for my most favorite.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2021, 10:13:33 AM »
@Kingshadow3
This seems better, as I have no leftover skill this time.

That is the intended solution. :thumbsup:

This means all three of my levels have been solved with the intended solution. ;)

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2021, 06:52:25 PM »
@KingShadow3 Did you check my solutions to the most recent versions of your contest levels? Is my solution to your R1 considered a backroute, or is it intended? Same with R2, is it intended now?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2021, 08:54:20 PM »
@KingShadow3 Did you check my solutions to the most recent versions of your contest levels? Is my solution to your R1 considered a backroute, or is it intended? Same with R2, is it intended now?

Rule 1 is a backroute :forehead: I've updated the level.
Rule 2 is intended. :thumbsup:
Rule 3 can spare 1 constructive skill in the solution.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2021, 06:19:49 AM »
@KingShadow3 - Still a backroute I'm sure, especially since I spared the same two skills again AND I saved everyone :P This one took me quite a while to find. I probably spent a good hour on this level, as it pretty much seems to be getting quite difficult
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2021, 08:17:37 AM »
@Kaywhyn. Try my V4. See if it can still be broken.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2021, 08:56:49 AM »
This one finally looks to be 100% intended. If so, very nice solution! :thumbsup: Deceptively difficult for a 2-of-everything, especially since a lot of things will fail by at least a pixel or so. Also, some of the skills are quite precise.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think with this, we're all done with updates for this LDC. I noticed you haven't sent any replays for my R1, though. Is it proving to be too hard or something?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2021, 09:20:21 AM »
@Kaywhyn That is the intended solution. I initially used one wide steel block to patch your backroute from earlier but then found out that it could still be broken by cloning the miner just before hitting the steel so it was changed to 2 small square steel blocks which were wider than one rectangular steel block.

I've never been particularly good at solving levels to be honest. So I generally only play each level for about 30 minutes or so. :(

@Ichotolot. Make sure you update to the latest version of my levels before you record your footage so you don't discover a backroute that has already been patched out.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2021, 09:36:50 AM »
@KingShadow3 - Ah, understood. I think you're definitely better at solving than you say you are, especially since you managed to figure out Armani's R1, and I considered it to be a difficult one! Also, you're pretty good at making deceivingly tough levels, though, I'll give you that. With me, that's not a bad thing at all. Hard levels are my kind of level that I love to play/solve, especially if it's the good kind of hard, where it stumps me for some time but it's very satisfying to figure out. Now that I know the solution for your R1, for example, I honestly have no idea why it took me so long to see it. It was a huge case of me overlooking the simple stuff. Your newest R2 version took me some time as well, although nowhere near as long as R1. Even then, I enjoy playing levels of all difficulties.

I'm glad to hear that you've immensely enjoyed watching me figure out/talk my way through your levels on video in my LP ;) In any case, since I now have the intended/acceptable solutions to all these contest levels, in maybe a day or so, I will be making 3 more videos showing off the solutions to each ruleset one last time, including showing off the intended solutions to my levels, so if you're not able to figure out my R1, you can just simply watch my video.

Regarding my R1's difficulty, I say it's up there with the rest of the R1's in this contest, where it's deceptively difficult, but comparatively speaking to them I say mine's the easiest of the R1's. Heck, I think my levels are the easiest in each ruleset. Still, I've been proven wrong about how I've always had this notion that I'm no good at making difficult levels
« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 09:49:28 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2021, 10:07:00 AM »
@Kaywhyn Sometimes it's hard for me to make a level that is both fun and challenging. I often worry that I won't be able to repeat making such levels when I get round to making a level pack as well as future contests. I actually took a little longer on doing "Cactus Valley" than usual (Mainly because Ichotolot sorts everyone's levels by creators in Alphabetical order thus Armani's level was the first level). Breaking a level is often easier than finding the intended solution. ;P

Another thing I want to point out is that for my 3 entries that I only used Classic Lemmings styles. While I find using classic style easy for me. I'd like to use L2/L3 and user created styles for future contests. Orig_Marble seems to be a popular style to use since I used it as one of the styles for my R3. Kaywhyn used it for his R1 and Ichotolot used it for his R2. I also made my PFP using the Marble Tileset.

This particular contest was pretty small (Only 12 entries from 4 people) so I definitely believe that the next one will be much bigger considering that the Slider and Laserer will be available in the next contest.

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2021, 06:05:14 PM »
Breaking a level is often easier than finding the intended solution. ;P

That's generally how people solve levels if they can't find the intended solution after a while: They try to backroute the level! Backroutes aren't necessarily a bad thing, as they might be ones that a solver finds that the designer otherwise might not had found on his/her own.

Quote
Another thing I want to point out is that for my 3 entries that I only used Classic Lemmings styles. While I find using classic style easy for me. I'd like to use L2/L3 and user created styles for future contests. Orig_Marble seems to be a popular style to use since I used it as one of the styles for my R3. Kaywhyn used it for his R1 and Ichotolot used it for his R2. I also made my PFP using the Marble Tileset.

I think a person who starts out in level designing almost always first uses the classic tilesets. For example, the very first level I have ever made is in the Bubble tileset. I have to suspect it's because they're the most familiar and are generally easy to work with for the most part. Just so you know, yes, in L1 marble is one of my absolute favorite tilesets, and in ONML it's bubble and brick that are my favorites. In L2, sports and outdoors are generally my top favorites, mostly because green happens to be my favorite color.

Quote
This particular contest was pretty small (Only 12 entries from 4 people) so I definitely believe that the next one will be much bigger considering that the Slider and Laserer will be available in the next contest.

Yea, I was a bit surprised by the very low number of people who entered in this LDC. I was thinking perhaps people are just burnt out from the previous contest (there were 34 levels and 12 authors I believe!), but it seems that from Discord discussions it was simply due to not having interesting ideas to make levels for the rulesets, along with real life.

This is only my second LDC I have ever entered, mostly because I rather solve levels than make them. Even then, because I enjoyed the previous LDC a lot more than I thought I would, I decided to get into designing again by participating in this LDC. Although I have only made 6 Lemmings levels total so far, there's some things that I have learned about myself in regards to the levels I have made. For example, so far it seems that I'm a fan of small/moderate sized levels with a somewhat tight, minimal skillset, resulting in deceptive and somewhat difficult levels. So, while IMO I have yet to reach, say, high Icho/Nepster level difficulty, I might be able to eventually pull it off in the future, but it's going to take me some time. Also, I don't have any huge levels yet, especially since it seems that I have a very hard time trying to make such things so far.

Finally, the biggest reason why I perceive my levels being the easiest out of every designer in this contest is due to me not having made these levels until just days before the closing deadline for submission. For example, I literally put together my R2 in just about 15-20 minutes! :laugh: It seems that I simply get huge creative bursts for levels closer to the deadline than further from it. I tried to finally start making my levels the final Friday before the deadline, but I didn't get anywhere until probably Sunday or Monday. For the most part, I think they turned out all right, although I certainly still have room for improvement, especially in the visuals department. I've never been an artist, and I'm still not, as I can't draw for the life of me. 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2021, 12:24:29 PM »
I played through all levels and recorded my playthrough:


Rule 1: https://youtu.be/Yoje6ITqXBw
Rule 2+3: https://youtu.be/LtkAbUPp2to
Rest of Rule 3 and my own levels: https://youtu.be/Eht-T9dBwGo

My solutions are attached. :)

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2021, 02:06:27 PM »
Intended, Intended and close enough :thumbsup: Well done!



I also attached solutions to my own levels.
Armani's Blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=4994.0

My NL level pack:
  Lemmings Uncharted[Medium~Extreme]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5702
  Xmas Lemmings 2021[Easy~Very Hard]: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5876.0

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2021, 07:58:28 PM »
@Icho As I kind of had a feeling that it would happen from none other than you, all your solutions to my levels were backroutes. This is quite interesting, as for once Armani didn't backroute the heck out of my levels and therefore them needing so many versions like in the previous LDC :P  I have uploaded newer versions for all 3 of them. I think they might be all properly fixed now, but let's see!

Thank you once again for your feedback in your videos of the playthrough of my contest levels. I totally didn't notice the oddity in the appearance of the acid pool at the bottom of my R1. I have fixed that for the next version. Yes, I did mention that it will likely be a while before I can properly satisfy you in the visual department, especially since I have never been an artist myself. Perhaps one thing that will help immensely is if I left myself way more time by making the levels far ahead of the submission closing deadline instead of just leaving them until just days before.

I'm glad you noticed that I'm "trying hard to really improve in making my levels look better" as you stated in your playthrough of my R1. I really am trying to put in the effort in that area of level designing, but yes, I'm still in agreement that it needs work. For starters, I'm glad that you're liking my levels for their puzzles, though. Don't worry if your feedback can sound harsh coming from you. I know you're very blunt and direct, as I can be at times as well. I'm always looking to improve my own levels, so any feedback I get is fine with me! 

Also, I noticed that my R3 in your video playthrough was playing the wrong music track. I have fixed this on my end by taking out the subfolder in the music line in the editor. I find it interesting that no one else brought this up, so perhaps for Armani it might had played the wrong track as well.


@Armani I believe the new versions of my R1 and R3 ended up breaking your replays, but you already got the intended solutions to all my levels last time. I did slightly shift some terrain around, and I thought they wouldn't affect your replays, but I guess they did.   
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2021, 06:47:18 PM »
I think I have more backroutes for kaywhyn ;P

Offline Kingshadow3

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2021, 07:54:35 PM »
@Ichotolot Rule 1 is intended. Rule 2 wasn't my solution but it's acceptable since it still uses all the skills. Rule 3 is pretty open so there are multiple ways to free the crowd initially.

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2021, 09:00:05 PM »
@Icho Ack, make that 3 backroutes, as you again managed to backroute all 3 of my levels once more :P I have uploaded a new version for all 3 levels. Hopefully they're all fixed up this time! :D
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2021, 03:05:34 PM »
@kaywhyn

I have hopes for 1 solution this time. ;)

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2021, 08:56:34 PM »
@Icho R1 and R2 are still backroutes. For R1, I've added some terrain and made a skill a pickup. For R2, I've added up OWAs. Hopefully I've killed two birds with one stone here!

R3 is now 100% intended. Well done! ;)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2021, 11:43:40 AM »
@kaywhyn

Another round of solutions. :)

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2021, 07:44:12 PM »
@Icho Your solutions to both R1 and R2 are now about 95% intended and therefore are still backroutes. I think I have found a way to block the 5% that isn't intended for both levels. For R1, some more terrain added, as well as some shifting in the terrain. For R2, made the bottom two hatches pre-assigned gliders, added an additional exit on both sides at the bottom and adjusted the exit limits accordingly while the # of lemmings and save requirement remain the same. This should do it for both levels once and for all! :)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 07:51:11 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2021, 08:28:08 PM »
@kaywhyn

I think you are right with R1.

Your patch to R2 did not change anything though as my old replay still solves. :P

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2021, 10:51:45 PM »
@Icho Even though you used all the skills for R1, it is still a backroute. I have added some more terrain and a fire trap. Also restored the stacker I took away and made a pickup. This should fix it now!

For R2, it was pretty much a drastic rework on the bottom. Added updrafts all over the area, shifted the newly added exits and water upwards, shifted the tiles at the bottom and outer exits downwards, shifted the rest of the level upwards, except for the two top hatches, and finally removed the exit limits on the top exits, as you can no longer see the numbers due to being too far off the top of the screen. Also, they're not really needed anymore since the top half is pretty solid now ;)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 10:59:14 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2021, 09:42:39 AM »
Quote
Also, they're not really needed anymore since the top half is pretty solid now

Well removing those makes it not solid anymore. If you change a part of the level that was intended it can become broken again.

Anyway, resolved the levels.

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #50 on: August 01, 2021, 11:21:58 AM »
Well removing those makes it not solid anymore. If you change a part of the level that was intended it can become broken again.

You're right :forehead: Hence that's why I was hesitant to restore some of the numerous changes I made to my R3 from the previous contest in fear that some of the same broken stuff in solutions will pop up again. I honestly don't know why I didn't heed this advice that I've been subconsciously aware of since the previous LDC.

Because of that, R1 made the stacker a pickup again which shouldn't had been taken away in the first place, and in R2 added some more terrain at the top and restored the exit limits for the two exits to be able to only take two lemmings each (again, as you said I shouldn't had taken it away since it did play a part in forcing the intended solution, and they've been there since the very first version! :XD:). Because the exit limits cannot be seen, I put in green circus lights in the shape of the number 2 next to those exits to make this not hidden information!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2021, 03:44:38 PM »
Another resolve. :)

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2021, 06:03:22 PM »
@Icho R1 is now about 98-99% intended. Just a very small backroute that I think is very easy to fix with a time limit.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

R2 is now 100% intended. Nice job ;) A lot of fixes needed there, but at the same time that's what I get for having put together that level in literally just 15 minutes. I should had known such a level would be very susceptible to backroutes despite being the shortest R2 level in the entire contest :XD:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2021, 08:26:06 PM »
Even though you forgot to add the 5min timer. This solution takes less than 5 mins and I suspect it being intended. :)

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2021, 08:51:25 PM »
Finally! This is 100% intended. Well done :) The funny thing was that in the very first version my own solution essentially took 5 mins exactly, and hence I was thinking of adding a timer, but then I decided against it and thought it wouldn't really add or block anything at all. Turns out that it is the one thing that finally enforces the solution I had in mind after so many fixes. Who knew? :laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2021, 08:21:34 PM »
I have attached my entire replay collection, including the intended solutions to my own contest levels. There are two replays for my R1.

Also, here are the LP links:

Video solutions to all updated R1, R2, and R3 except for mine

Part 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5zFOV3zbRU

Intended solutions to my own contest levels

Part 7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdWcyh_3Sdc

Once again, it was a blast pre-testing Icho's contest levels, and also thanks again to everyone for all the feedback/replays for my levels! :thumbsup: I still have a lot to learn in regards to level designing/backrouting it seems, but some progress is better than none, right? :P It was fun playing through and solving these levels. These were all quite good ;) Armani did a great job with these rulesets he chose for this contest. Hope my levels were enjoyable as well.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2021, 02:35:33 PM »
Uploaded a playthrough of the updated levels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IetVMeildQ

My replay collection is also attached.

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #23 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2021, 10:31:22 AM »
Ok, as soon as the contest pictures are up I will start the voting phase. :)