Author Topic: Revenge of the Lemmings (conversion to v12.7) community help appreciated :)  (Read 10998 times)

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Offline mobius

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings (conversion to v12.7) community help appreciated :)
« Reply #105 on: November 17, 2021, 02:11:19 AM »
some more levels to test :)

[bat country is a fix of an old level, the rest are new]

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline mobius

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings (conversion to v12.7) community help appreciated :)
« Reply #106 on: November 20, 2021, 06:55:00 PM »
some more levels to test.

note; these are all levels I've tested myself to be at least solvable under current NL mechanics. They need to be tested for backroutes.
I haven't gotten around to gathering the "questionable" levels I've talked about on discord yet; those which have bad backroutes or I'm unsure if they're solvable. TBH not sure if I'm going to bother with those at all yet at this point.
---
Forgot to note any kind of difficulty with any of these. The past few batches I uploaded were probably med-hard. These here, some of them at least may be very difficult.
---
geoo's levels (Crossing Stairs, Twice the Same and Increasing step heights) have some minor adjustments to them to account for differences in NL mechanics. Well, Twice the Same is actually quite a bit different while looking almost the same. The solution that is; interestingly, far fewer builders are needed despite not needing any glitches, but I also have the save requirement 1 less.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2021, 02:03:35 AM by mobius »
"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline Turrican

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings (conversion to v12.7) community help appreciated :)
« Reply #107 on: November 21, 2021, 09:45:01 PM »
I have tried some of these levels today , so here are the replays of my solutions.

Very nice levels! Most of these , I had also played them in Lemmix , at the past.

I think , most of these , would be nice for the later ranks of the pack.
My Youtube channel ( Turrican Lemm )  :
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYGFBOHdYITHlsqa203Tu8Q

Offline mobius

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings (conversion to v12.7) community help appreciated :)
« Reply #108 on: November 22, 2021, 02:08:45 AM »
nice job on those levels;
-Crossing Stairs; I think this works well as kind of "anything goes" type of level while still being pretty hard. Especially for new players unfamiliar with some of these tricks.
my solution used a floater and saved 1 or maybe 2 bashers
-Increasing Step Heights; nice one, very similar to one (of the 2 major solutions I know of) solution here.
-nnit2Winnit; same as mine. this one's much easier; I'm thinking early; maybe even first rank. I should put this comments on the forum instead
-House of the Lost Staircase - brilliant solution, clearly intended. That is really well hidden imo. I will definitely have to patch out the backroute on this one.
Twice the same -- wow I didn't see some far easier solutions to this level. And the bomber should be removed.
Thinking now; I can think of a way to save 7 but not sure if it's possible; would require some crazy timing. Hey! maybe good place for a talisman :D

I did kind of want to make talismans for this pack.
"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline Armani

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings (conversion to v12.7) community help appreciated :)
« Reply #109 on: November 23, 2021, 03:40:41 AM »
I've played rest of the levels 8-)

comments on some levels
iirc, bulletride's Lets Get To The Bottom Of This! got some fixes and it's now very different from the one you attached. You can see the latest version in the Lemmings Stampede level pack topic.
I solved both versions of Niche, and I extend both the basher and the miner in one of them. It feels somewhat intended. I only used 7 builders though.
Oh, the possibilities... is interesting disjoint union level. But I think it's pretty easy to completely rule out saving both second and third crowd. It's just too expensive to save them which makes the level somewhat obvious.
The Theft is the hardest and my favorite level from this batch.
I might have backrouted The house of the lost staircase. But I can see the how intended solution looks like; bouncing off the miner several times with some blockers on the builder staircase like zemming level in dovelem.

Offline mobius

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings (conversion to v12.7) community help appreciated :)
« Reply #110 on: November 25, 2021, 01:51:00 AM »
thanks for the replays and comments.

I forgot to scrap "Let's get to the bottom of this" because it's present in Lemmings Stampede. [still must look through that levelpack to double check everything]

notable replays;

Bat Country: interesting trick to turn the builder around! My solution was having the blocker there and another method to save the crowd on the upper left. Either solution makes this more difficult than it was before I think, which was the point. Any thoughts on the difficulty here? Of this one and also "Patience Young Grasshopper"?

Crossing stairs; mmm interesting solution, makes it quite a bit easier; but idk about calling this a 'backroute' since three people so far haven't thought to try this [the method of stopping the bashers]; I wouldn't know how to remove it anyway. I think it'll be fine as is.

Niche; still unsure what to do about this atm. There's leaving it open to more possibilities which I'm very tempted to do. But some of these solutions seem too easy(?) so I'm also tempted to meddle with it more.

To Each his own; your backroute is easily fixable... But I just found another that is not. Nevermind; I just fixed it (maybe).
[I have yet to find a solution that gets each lemming to every exit; but I do have two different solutions that gets to all exits but one. Trying to get to every exit may be clever red herring]

-House of Lost Staircase; I'm aware of this backroute unfortunately, not sure atm the how to fix that. The "intended" solution blew me away at first, cause I didn't see it at all.

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I realized a possible fix for both levels; Desperate Measures and Necromancer, but still debating whether to even include either of these. That is; move the entrance closer to the edge of the starting platform so there is only one or so pixels for the lems to walk on. These levels are both kind of similar...
"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline mobius

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings (conversion to v12.7) community help appreciated :)
« Reply #111 on: December 01, 2021, 01:26:38 AM »
I found I think a clever "fix" for Niche. See what you guys think. I think there are simply too many simple solutions to it otherwise.

Added some other levels; Tilt is on the easier but stumped me a bit for while (because misdirection?)

Locked n Loaded: warning; I have not solved this level! I don't know if it's possible; but it really should be. Ben Bryant's Cheapo pack, where this came from, is mostly or all legit levels rarely if ever requiring unusual or Cheapo specific tricks or hidden/unfair traps. And his levels often are pure logic puzzles too (my personal favorite kind)

---------------------------

the "mysterious levels" are the levels I mention to a few people on discord; that fall under two categories; 1) I haven't solved or know of a solution, hence not sure *if* they are solvable (but evidence indicates they are, else I wouldn't be brining them up in the first place) or 2) are backrouted severely. In either case I don't know the intended solution but would like anybody's feedback/discussion on them.

BulletRide 1 & 2 : original had more decorative terrain on the left that was removed and removed a solution using only one worker. Can still save over the requirement and skills.

Vaccuum: change does almost nothing to change some core solutions except for building directly from the chains. What are all the blockers for?  Are the bars under exit supposed to play a part or is that just decoration?

Stranger Than Fiction: I don't know of a solution to the latter (5 builder) version at least for NeoLemmix. There is one for Lemmix but don't think it works here because you must use a walking digger next to a blocker to free him. The comment from Yawg was "the solution to this level is anything but normal"

Wall to Wall: easy backroute(?) by bashing/building into the starting staircase to trap the crowd in.

Compression Method X: can simply make a digger pit to trap them. What are so many builders for?
"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline Armani

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings (conversion to v12.7) community help appreciated :)
« Reply #112 on: December 04, 2021, 05:09:18 AM »
I've thought I already posted the replays but I didn't :XD:
Most of them seem to be backroutes.

 - There's only 1 replay for Bullet Ride(Part1&2) and Stranger Than Fiction each. Since one replay solves both versions.
 - OTOH, there are separate two replays for Vaccum ver1 and ver2
 - Stranger Than Fiction and Stop, Drop and Blow are decent puzzles and quite difficult. I really enjoyed them.
 - Finally my solution to niche seems good! I doubt right-most exit is possible to reach. But you never know..

Quote
Bat Country: interesting trick to turn the builder around! My solution was having the blocker there and another method to save the crowd on the upper left. Either solution makes this more difficult than it was before I think, which was the point. Any thoughts on the difficulty here? Of this one and also "Patience Young Grasshopper"?
Pretty hard I would say. More specifically they have [hard] difficulty from standardised difficulty scale we are using on Neolemmix pack board imo.

Offline mobius

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings (conversion to v12.7) community help appreciated :)
« Reply #113 on: December 06, 2021, 02:10:32 AM »
nice job on Niche. I have to make the final decision on this level.

Locked and Loaded; I have three backroutes including yours that I must remove. I found what I'm 95% sure is the intended or close to the intended solution; imo this is one of my favorite levels I've ever played actually.

tilt was intended.

Stop Drop and Blow; interesting different solution. [only possible of course because of instant bombers]

Farewell to Kings; backroute, because of the edit I had to make on the right pillar. I like this level; it's simple yet is a puzzle but originally utilizes climbers falling away from the wall; a glitch which does not happen on NL, but is not part of the solution...
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For the mysterious levels; I'm less interested in replays and more interested in discussion around the level; if there's anything that stands out to you, to try and figure out the intended solution, or just any ideas you might have. But I must say your solutions to Vaccuum and Stranger than friction were actually interesting and stimulating.

for Stranger Than Friction; at least this solution wasn't hackish. This is actually the sort of thing I was going for for a long time but for some reason couldn't figure that out. Looking at the replay though makes it look not all that difficult although there is some tight timing. Obviously there are skills leftover, something unlike Yawg to allow. How difficult would you say that was?

Wall to Wall: I got excited when you didn't pin them in at the start but then... eh
"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline Armani

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings (conversion to v12.7) community help appreciated :)
« Reply #114 on: December 06, 2021, 01:36:57 PM »
Quote
tilt was intended.
Oh wow, I was quite sure my solution is a cheecky backroute..

Quote
or Stranger Than Friction; at least this solution wasn't hackish. This is actually the sort of thing I was going for for a long time but for some reason couldn't figure that out. Looking at the replay though makes it look not all that difficult although there is some tight timing. Obviously there are skills leftover, something unlike Yawg to allow. How difficult would you say that was?
I really have no idea where the leftover basher(and a builder for the second version) are meant to be used. At least I think bombing the faller to destroy the OWW is intended. If I'm in charge of this project, I think I would just cut the leftover skills. The difficulty of this level is pretty high imo. You need to use chain terrain cleverly to go down safely and the falling bomber trick is not easy to see.

I also have no clue on how the intended solutions look like in Bullet Ride and Compression Method. For me, it seems like they just give player too many powerful skills.

I attached another solution to Wall to Wall. I think this is somewhat intended. :D

Offline mobius

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Re: Revenge of the Lemmings (conversion to v12.7) community help appreciated :)
« Reply #115 on: December 07, 2021, 12:18:22 AM »
:thumbsup: brilliant! thanks! Ugh I spent a decent amount of time on that one and couldn't see that; so clear in hindsight! Another well done puzzle imo.

Yeah Tilt does seem cheeky imo; took me a while to see that that was a possibility. [I kept trying to go up the left side and use the decoration to get up].

I think I can take at least those two levels [Wall to Wall and Stranger than Fiction] out of the "mysterious" category :laugh:

I'm very glad I decided to put in the extra work to take this on again; turns out I've found a lot of good levels I didn't know about before. I'm feeling like this will be the best version of the pack yet.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2021, 12:26:13 AM by mobius »
"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain