Author Topic: SMS levels  (Read 297 times)

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Offline petaQ

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SMS levels
« on: December 03, 2018, 11:57:19 pm »
Hey, I was recommended to come here, just thought I'd pop my head in as I'm speedrunning SMS in Fun and Tricky right now. I'm aware of the glitches/techniques posted here and elsewhere but since you guys have lots of experience it's possible you may see small things in my runs that can be improved on. I haven't optimised everything yet but here's my latest huge time save in a level

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyTxWxYcvF0

I managed an unintentional use of the slide glitch in Go For It but I can't pull it off regularly right now, if anyone has any tips on how to achieve that I'd be most grateful!

Offline petaQ

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Re: SMS levels
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2018, 02:09:15 am »
Lemmingology: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXxMEMrckkE&feature=youtu.be

Any suggestions for a reliable way to get fourth lemming into the home quicker? My only thought is to use the one who dies but it might be hard with the crossing traffic of the other three.

Offline petaQ

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Re: SMS levels
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2018, 02:20:30 am »
(Moderators, I feel like it's smoothest if I post stuff all in this thread to avoid gunking the board up, please feel free to edit or advise if you prefer a different method)

Lemming Drops: https://youtu.be/iyVhwCd-JQs

Online Nessy

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Re: SMS levels
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2018, 08:05:12 pm »
Welcome to the forums petaQ :thumbsup:

Not a huge expert on Lemmings speedrunning but after taking a look at your videos you seem to have some pretty solid stuff already. Not sure how to do that sliding glitch consistently yet but for "Lemmingology" I'm wondering if the third lemming can become a blocker immediately after falling from the hatch in order to bunch up the three lemmings in there closer together to avoid a slight delay in waiting for them to walk all the way to left and right again of that first platform (also might allow to spam the climber skill on them and not have to worry about one of them facing the left in the meantime). The lemming that dies might need to be given an extra builder to turn him around but he shouldn't be too far behind the three lemming crowd, and the lemming that builds at the very end can be given a basher as soon as the builder meets with the exit platform in order to shave off a few more frames. It might be enough for a 4:12 at least.

Not sure if this is a good idea so I apologize beforehand if it's a bad strat :P

Offline petaQ

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Re: SMS levels
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2018, 02:51:37 am »
I hear you about 3=Blocker but I'm unsure whether I can get there timebound before 1 falls without pauses :) With the RR as is the lemmings all fall into a pile. I've found that bashers don't work to stop a lemming being a builder unless he has something directly in front, so I guess it might come down to whether I can reduce the gap between bunch, and final lemming to <1 second, to decide whether to freeze the action with a nuke.

More importantly I discovered yesterday that there's a heck of a lot of lag in animations when the screen is full of lemmings - does anyone here have technical ability/knowledge of what the SMS's limits are before such slowdown occurs? I'll be researching myself but it'd be great to know say, whether 10 lemmings on screen is a cut off point. I just hate the idea that my runs will be full of constant screen-scrolling like a hyperactive toddler :evil:

Edit to add: in just fourteen of the Fun levels, lag/slowdown accounted for SEVEN minutes in my WR run... :XD:
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 02:12:31 pm by petaQ »

Offline petaQ

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Re: SMS levels
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2018, 07:57:08 am »
We're now timing levels with RTA and it seems that anything above 14 lemmings in-level at once causes slowdown, worsened by keeping a portion on screen, or having flame trap etc animations on screen. With that in mind here's my latest optimisation for Tricky 20: www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTrfrh-pi5o

Offline ccexplore

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Re: SMS levels
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2018, 12:30:19 pm »
I just hate the idea that my runs will be full of constant screen-scrolling like a hyperactive toddler :evil:

That may well be unavoidable in some cases.  A while back someone was working on a tool-assisted speedrun (TAS) for Sega Genesis (aka Megadrive) Lemmings.  That game also has a lag phenomenon and worse, it is kind of unpredictable and we never worked out precisely when lags occur, though it tends to occur more often when there are more animated stuff on-screen.  So we often try to reduce lag by scrolling any animation-heavy level parts offscreen.  At one point we talked about how avoiding lag sometimes means some interesting moves may even have to happen entirely offscreen, making the resulting video potentially very confusing to watch.

Offline petaQ

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Re: SMS levels
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2018, 12:47:28 pm »
Mm, I'd seen Gronklems' work on a couple of levels though I'm sad for him to hear that the lag is erratic. It seems to be much more uniform on SMS and since I'm doing rta speedrunning, I'm spared the need to do superhuman movements. My latest improvement, on Lost Something?, shows evidence that bunching lemmings into a very small space so that they move almost as one, can significantly help matters. I knocked 90 seconds off Sega Three just by judicious early killing. I started posting RTA optimal solutions on my channel, anyone reading is more than welcome to look at these and suggest improvements or just generally enjoy them :)

Offline petaQ

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Re: SMS levels
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2018, 12:16:44 pm »
Good news everyone! (What are there, 4 of you? :lem-mindblown: )

My buddy Calindro and I created an SMS lag monitor tool which is going to make it super easy for me to dig into the slowdown the game provides. You can see a short clip of its use here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLGrBL1DAGU&feature=youtu.be but I think I've already got a superior display method which is more akin to a seismometer. If anyone is interested I can post the traces of several level playthrough as they stand at some point. If not I'd be happy to stop clogging the forum and just let people come to my playthroughs when they wish :)

Offline namida

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Re: SMS levels
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2018, 09:02:14 pm »
Quote
Good news everyone! (What are there, 4 of you? :lem-mindblown: )

This is a small forum, but there's a bit more than 4 active members. Maybe closer to around 20. :)

Me, I've been reading this thread but haven't had anything worthwhile to post in it so far.
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings