Author Topic: [Suggestion][Editor] Don't change standard OWWs to the ones from the main set  (Read 542 times)

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Online IchoTolot

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A user wanted to make a rock level, but use the red-default OWWs instead of the standard grey ones the tileset posseses.

This wasn't possible, as even though they selected the desired tileset in the object selection bar, the red-default OWWs were replaced with the grey ones from the rock set.

What irritates me is the fact that you can choose any other custom OWWs (that are not L1 default) without problems in your rock level. I think it should also be possible to select all desired L1 default OWWs.

So here is the proposal:

- Don't change the standard/default L1 OWWs from the selected set in the object selection bar to the ones from the main set.


This will ensure the user can select not only every custom OWW at all times, but also all stanard/default L1 ones.

Offline Nepster

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Here is the problem: We only have one standard L1 OWW sprite (apart from the fire one), and this one gets recolored depending on the main style selected for the level. In light of that, what you are suggesting is a pretty large change, that I am not sure I want to do.

Online IchoTolot

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Here is the problem: We only have one standard L1 OWW sprite (apart from the fire one), and this one gets recolored depending on the main style selected for the level. In light of that, what you are suggesting is a pretty large change, that I am not sure I want to do.

Ok, I did not expect this to work this way and the change would be quick and easy.

Yes, then this will be way more problematic. Pretty much we would have to move away from the "standard" type of doing this and handle the L1 tileset OWWs like the custom ones.

The work is better used elsewhere for now, as this is only a little annoyance for some single tilesets.

Maybe this idea can be kept in mind as a long term goal when the more critial things have been accomplished.

Offline mobius

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:agree: this is annoying! This was brought up before.
The recolonization and everything honestly is super convoluted for such a simple issue. A much better fix needs to be made at some point seriously.

For now; Since many of the 'default' or original colors from the main sets like rock have poor colors that don't stand out well. Like in Icho's example I often use different styles or change the color via changing theme. Why not just recolor some of these to stand out better? At least this is a temporary fix to solve this annoyance of having to change styles/look for suitable arrows.

my proposals for default colors (these were used in Lemmini to my knowledge and they stood out very well imo)
Bubble - red
snow - red
rock - yellow or brown
brick - yellow
marble - blue (as is)
pillar - blue
crystal red (as is)
dirt - yellow (as is)

please! get rid of that stupid white/off white arrow color!!! It doesn't work! It doesn't look good. (...imho)
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Online IchoTolot

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please! get rid of that stupid white/off white arrow color!!! It doesn't work! It doesn't look good. (...imho)

I absolutely do not agree with that. I very much like that color in brick and pillar for example. I do agree that it doesn't fit rock very much though.

I would be up for some of the remaining changes you mentioned though, as I think changing the default color would be an easier task to do.

Bubble - red
snow - red
rock - yellow (or also red if I may suggest)

As I mentioned I like the "white/off white" in pillar and brick.

Offline Raymanni

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If some of the original colours don't stand out well, how about slightly shading the default arrow sprite to make it more clear. Attached are a couple examples.

This would only be possible if people agree to modify the original flat coloured arrows though.

Offline Nepster

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I already experimented with shaded arrows, cf https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3265.0

Unfortunately, I can't remember where I put these experimental arrows and will have to either recreate them or search a while through my backups.

Online namida

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Simply changing the colors associated with certain sets would be very simple. It's a quick edit to the associated theme.nxmi file.
My released level packs:
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Offline Dullstar

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I don't think the default colors should be changed considering that you can choose arrows from a different set if you want a different color.

If we are going to use recolors of the L1 arrows to save disk space, then a level should be able to specify an arbitrary recoloration (with the set having a default for when nothing is specified). Otherwise, is there really any reason to have the L1 arrows behave differently from custom arrows?

Offline Proxima

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I don't think the default colors should be changed considering that you can choose arrows from a different set if you want a different color.

At the moment you can't. That's the whole reason this topic was made.

Offline Dullstar

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I suppose I didn't really phrase that well.

I think the defaults should not be changed, but I would also expect that choosing to use OWW from another set should behave as expected regardless of what set they came from. If I understand correctly, only L1/ONML arrows don't work like this, correct? Arrows taken from custom sets work as expected, correct?

Online namida

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It entirely depends on the set. If they implement outright custom one-way arrow graphics, yes, it will work. If they simply use the default ones, but recolor them differently, then no. There are custom sets that do this.

Basically, any object (this isn't limited to one-way arrows - pickup use it too, and there's also nothing at all stopping you from doing it with custom objects, and yes, you can define custom colors too, just be aware that most graphic sets won't define anything for them unless you specifically add it yourself) can make use of recoloring based on the theme file. We could have used this to recolor other objects that exist across multiple sets in slightly different colors too, although generally if you need more than one or two colors it's probably more hassle than it's worth - it was justifiable for OWWs and pickups because they only use one and two colors respectively, and they're pretty universal in nature.

I'd be surprised if the graphic set editing tool supports this, as it's quite an advanced feature, but if you take a look at the data files (both text and images) for themes and for objects that do this, you should be able to figure it out and implement it via manual-file editing. Of particular note, pickup skills actually use additional image files to determine where to recolor and with which color (one-way arrows don't need this, as the entire graphic gets recolored in a single color). Now, whether that'll be particularly useful outside of one-ways and pickups, is another matter.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 12:02:05 am by namida »
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings