"Released Projects" subforum of "Other Projects"?

[namida]

I'm starting to wonder if we need this, now that the number of projects is getting larger and larger. We have the Fangame & Modification list for finding actual games, but then there's also graphic sets, and likely in the future graphics packs, etc. I myself had trouble finding a topic when I was wanting to link someone off-site to it.

So I'm wondering if we should have a subforum, probably with stricter organisation rules (eg. combining related content into a single post except for maybe recently-released stuff), for completed works only?

[IchoTolot]

I think the subforum is a good idea, but I wouldn't use "combining related content into a single post" tactic and just leave the topics as they are (pack+link in the first post.. after that discussion etc)

[namida]

The main reason for that is, if there's heaps of different topics for related things, it could fill up the board very quickly, and thus offer little advantage over the current setup.

[Nepster]

I would first split according to content, i.e. distributing the content of "Other Projects" among

• NeoLemmix
  
  • Level packs for NeoLemmix
  • Graphic sets for NeoLemmix
• Other Projects: Everything unrelated to Lix, NeoLemmix or SuperLemmini

If this still makes finding released works too difficult, one could then split the "Level packs for NeoLemmix" into two:

• Level Pack Projects: For all projects currently under construction, demos and feedback to existing level packs.
• Final Releases of Level Packs: Precisely one thread per level pack. The first post contains download links and a link to the development/feedback thread in the Level Pack Project subforum. All other posts are just notifications of updates. No feedback/discussions allowed.

But honestly, I would rather delete the outdated development topics, once a release topic exists (of course after asking the level pack designer for agreement first). Development topics are mainly there to keep people interested and to weed out some backroutes in demo versions. Nothing of this is really interesting once the complete level pack is released.

[namida]

I'm not sure how I feel about deleting them. Closing them may be more appropriate.

[geoo]

I fully concur. 'Other Projects' should be reserved for projects not related to Lix, NeoLemmix or SuperLemmini.

I find the way that level content is organized is a mess right now anyway. For Lix levels, it's just threads in the Lix subforum. For Lemmix/DOS, there's a dedicated Level Designing subforum. For NeoLemmix, somehow all the levels go into the Other Projects subforum which I find very counterintuitive. Either way it's very inconsistent.

Either, the Level Designing subforum should have a subsubforum for each engine, or each engine should have its own level design subsubforum. I think the advantage of the former is that it allows very consistent treatment of everything including Lemmix, while Lemmix/DOS would still be a special case in the latter version. The main forum could then serve discussion of level design guidelines and levels for any engines that are not Lemmix/Dos, NeoLemmix or Lix, while anything engine-specific goes into the respective subsubforums. Considering how large of an aspect level designing is for the community, it could also be a subsection (on the main page) with subforums rather than a subforum with subsubforums.

The Projects subforums then serve development and engine discussion. I'd consider custom style creation part of development and thus leave it in that subforum. If there's a surge in custom style creation for an engine, it could get a dedicated subsubforum.


With regards to deleting old topics, I'm generally very much against deleting content. If the in-development content swamps the completed level packs, then I'd advocate either having a regularly updated sticky listing completed content with brief descriptions, or a dedicated subsubforum, or closing old topics (I'm generally against closing topics but in this case it could be warranted because there's a newer topic almost any discussion it more relevant for).


On a different note, I found Technical Stuff (from the previous version of the forum) a much more descriptive name than Lemmings Lab (what it is currently).

[Simon]

Don't delete threads. Improve the infrastructure instead of deleting culture.

Designers should make several threads for their project on major turning points. The old threads can float around. Edit the old OP and link to the newer thread.

Level Design should be about theory. Icho told Colorful Arty to look through Level Design for tips. That's excellent referring. Let's keep the cohesion high by separating Lemmix packs from engine-independent design theory.

Possible trees: Separate by engine first, then boards for content. Or separate for content first, then boards for engines. Observe how either tree ends up with the same leaves:

• NL levels
• NL graphic sets
• Lix levels
• Superlemmini levels
• vanilla Lemmix levels -- even if no new content comes. We have many Lemmix content topics in Level Design. I volunteer to go through Level Design and move topics accordingly.

-- Simon

[namida]

We already have dedicated boards for most engines which content boards could be subforums of; those that don't (such as Lemmix and Lemmini) could have subforums (that may still be engine-specific) of the Other Projects board.

I'm not sure at this stage if there's a need to seperate the NL subforums into Levels and Graphic Sets. It may become more critical in the future, but for now, I don't think there's enough graphic sets to warrant it. It would also be very much a unique NeoLemmix thing; as Lix doesn't really have any concrete concept of a "graphic set" as such, and we aren't seeing much content at all for engines other than those two at the moment (except for Colorful Arty's SuperLemmini pack, but this is purely a level pack).

[namida]

Coming back to this idea - I was reminded of it somehow just now - I've changed the description of the "Level Design" subforum to more clearly suggest it's for theoretical issues or support rather than for actually posting content, without specifically stating "don't post content here" (for now).

Is there any objection to the idea of creating a subforum in each engine's board (Lix, NeoLemmix, SuperLemmini, and possibly "Other Projects" (thus making the main board more for things like editors, other engines, etc)) for content to be released in? If not, I'll go ahead with this later today; it's getting to the point where we really need some improvement over the current system.

(For the record: Even if existing topics get moved to these new boards, existing links to those topics will not break.)

[Wafflem]

I would go ahead with the subforums. As everyone said, the fangames/graphic set topics need to be re-organized into the proper subforums, and the reorganizing will make things neater and easier to find.

If you'd like, I can help re-organize the topics (as I was the one who made the Fangames list).

[namida]

I've decided to go with a slightly scaled-back approach from this for now: I've simply created a single "Level Packs" board, with a subforum for in-development projects. I've moved most of the relevant topics from "Other Projects" there, except for some very old closed ones.

[Wafflem]

I've moved most of the relevant topics from "Other Projects" there, except for some very old closed ones.

I think they should be moved to the Level Packs board regardless if they are very old or not, especially since the Other Projects board is now meant for things like Lemmings clones.


There should be a board for Graphic Sets. There have been many graphic set topics such as IchoTolot's Dune style and L2/L3 Conversions, and GigaLem's Freedom Planet graphic sets and Gronkling's tilesets. Minim also once had a hard time looking for the L2+L3 sets. (I still have yet to write a graphic set list like I did for the Fangames list).

Also to note is that the graphic set topics are scattered in different boards; Icho's Dune and L2/L3 Conversions, which are made for NeoLemmix, are in the Other Projects board, while Gronkling's and GigaLem's graphic sets are in the NeoLemmix board. These topics need to all be organized in one Graphic Sets board.

[namida]

I think they should be moved to the Level Packs board regardless if they are very old or not, especially since the Other Projects board is now meant for things like Lemmings clones.

Agreed, I just got lazy.

There should be a board for Graphic Sets. There have been many graphic set topics such as IchoTolot's Dune style and L2/L3 Conversions, and GigaLem's Freedom Planet graphic sets and Gronkling's tilesets. Minim also once had a hard time looking for the L2+L3 sets. (I still have yet to write a graphic set list like I did for the Fangames list).

This might be less nessecary now that the latest editor version allows downloading directly from the website. But it's probably not a bad idea.

In general, it'd only really be relevant to NeoLemmix (custom Lix tiles tend to get integrated into the following release, while SuperLemmini has very little available and probably no need to segregate it from the also-fairly-inactive main board at this stage), so perhaps just as a subforum of the NeoLemmix board? Although with that being said, the NL board already has two subforums, even if one is read-only.

[Wafflem]

The NeoLemmix graphic sets board sounds good. However, there are graphic sets that were originally released for Lemmini, such as the Missing Lemmini Graphic Sets topic and oskar12345's PSP Lemmings Conversion tilesets. zanzindorf also released his Glacier tileset for SuperLemmini and NeoLemmix. There are also topics on Cheapo styles. This is why I think there should be an individual board for all graphic sets.

The Level Design Contests should be a main forum instead of the subforum of Level Design, as the contests are more on creating levels while the Level Design forums are meant for discussing how to make a good level, what is a bad level, etc.

Should traditional Lemmix have its own board? There are TONS of Lemmix-related topics. You could also make EricLang a moderator of that board.

Also, where do I move the Collab Level and Lemmings Plus Voteoff topics?

[namida]

The NeoLemmix graphic sets board sounds good. However, there are graphic sets that were originally released for Lemmini, such as the Missing Lemmini Graphic Sets topic and oskar12345's PSP Lemmings Conversion tilesets. zanzindorf also released his Glacier tileset for SuperLemmini and NeoLemmix. There are also topics on Cheapo styles. This is why I think there should be an individual board for all graphic sets.

Hm, you raise some good points here. Perhaps we need an entire new category for content, with boards for each content type that needs it...

The Level Design Contests should be a main forum instead of the subforum of Level Design, as the contests are more on creating levels while the Level Design forums are meant for discussing how to make a good level, what is a bad level, etc.

Probably not a bad idea.

Should traditional Lemmix have its own board? There are TONS of Lemmix-related topics. You could also make EricLang a moderator of that board.

The key reason it (and Lemmini) don't is because they're no longer really in active development, nor are they too widely used anymore - or at least, not in any way that we hear much about here. If that changed, I could indeed give them their own boards.

Also, where do I move the Collab Level and Lemmings Plus Voteoff topics?

Collab level, Level Design is probably the best place. The latter, I'm not sure. Perhaps it could fit into either the general Lemmings Discussion or the Level Review board... Other Projects probably isn't the right place for it anymore, but neither are the new boards really...