D/A5: Features to postpone or drop

[Simon]

Hi,

the following features aren't critical to the game. I'm considering to postpone their porting from C++ Lix for now, and focus on other stuff. If there is lots of discussion emerging, I will eventually split it this into separate threads.

Player can change spawn interval during play: Dedicated thread about the VSI. At least 3 people still want to reply, but never seem to get around to.

Trampolines: They're featured in 7 out of roughly 500 singleplayer levels. By experience, they don't add value to multiplayer. They violate many assumptions of mental pathfinding with their special cases. They look like they should be fun, but they aren't fun.

Time limits: I mean singleplayer time limits, not overtime. This would need its own thread. I don't want to pour time limit oil into the VSI fire right now. But in 2016, several years after the first time limit thread, we should review the cullture that has emerged.

Time limits fuel more levels than the variable spawn interval (VSI) does. Time limits must be kept unless this is chewed through thoroughly. The VSI-problematic levels happen to have a large intersection with the time-limit-dependent levels.

L1 and L2 graphic sets: This is orthogonal to the current culture. It's a nice-to-have, and might attract conservative Lemmings fans. But it needs quite some extra handling code. Everything else has higher return-per-investment.


Manual screen start: Dedicated topic about dropping manual screen start. Will keep manual screen start.

-- Simon

[ccexplore]

...aka "more reasons to start embracing NeoLemmix!" (just kidding, I think)

I'm a little surprised time limit shows up in the list.  I feel like philosophically everyone here's long been more or less on the same page with this one--if you use it there better be a damn good reason, but some good level ideas do seem to need it, either fundamentally or to avoid backroutes.

One reason VSI-problematic levels seem to intersect with time-limit-dependent levels may be because if the level needs a time limit in the first place, it probably needs the ability to let the player maximize the release rate eventually so all the lixes can be released and exit in time, otherwise the time limit may need to be raised substantially to a point that it is no longer effective for why it's needed in the first place.  The level may well have no other uses for VSI except for that.  Although that does bring an interesting point to the VSI discussion......

=====

Anyway, yeah, I don't care about trampolines.  Indeed I'm kind of curious how they ever came into the game in the first place, it feels so un-Simony.   Everything else on the list so far will probably spawn some interesting and possibly heated discussions.

[geoo]

I added trampolines when I added support for the L2 styles -- I wanted to support as much from the L2 styles files as I could without too much effort. They came in conjunction with the flinger objects.
They are quite silly and I'm happy that they are not widely used. At the same time, for that exact reason their cost is very low, because the average player might never even notice they exist. None of the levels in the community pack use it for instance. Simon's Aether makes (partially) interesting use of them though.

Time limits fuel more levels than the variable spawn interval (VSI) does.

I very much disagree with this. VSI opens up a lot more possibilities than time limits. The only reason it might be excusable to cull VSI but not time limit is because time limit comes at a lower cost (doesn't take screen estate and easier to discover). If the aim is to have clean and to-the-point design, then both should go.

[RubiX]

I have 4 single player maps that use trampolines. (last one being the one that made me eat my shoe haha)  I do actually like it as an additional item for puzzle making.    I would rather it not be removed, but postponed.  But always your call!

[Clam]

Agree with Simon about the trampolines. It's too unpredictable where the lix will land after falling on one, which means you have to send a lix to test it before you can formulate a solution around it. Other flinger objects can suffer from this too (tractor beams not so much), though trampolines are the worst offender because the result depends on how the lix approaches it. They end up being more frustrating than fun – especially for the backroute-conscious level designer

My one objection to culling trampolines would be that two of my favourite levels use them – but I've just now edited them out (pending backroutes of course!). Trampoline-less versions of Inside The Fourth Wall and Wrap Your Head Around This One! are attached.

[Minim]

I prefer C++ Lix because I love to create levels involving trampolines. It's sad to find out that they've been discontinued.