Author Topic: When do newcomers learn to turn by building?  (Read 2652 times)

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When do newcomers learn to turn by building?
« on: July 08, 2015, 08:37:52 am »
Hi, it's me again!
I made this topic so I don't need to start a new topic every time I have a question.
This time I'd like to know: when do you think newcomers learn to reverse a Lemming's direction using a builder to build into the ground? At what rating levels? And should it be incorporated into another puzzle, or in a tutorial-style level? I can't recall where the original Lemmings learnt it, as I originally learnt the trick from ONML.

Edit Simon: Thread title.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 11:56:55 pm by Simon »

Offline Simon

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Re: A topic for me to discuss things with other level designers
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2015, 09:11:52 am »
Quote
so I don't need to start a new topic every time I have a question.

The whole board is exactly for this purpose. Making a fresh topic for each unrelated question is a Good Thing. Much easier to scan and search. <_<

Quote
when do you think newcomers learn to reverse a Lemming's direction using a builder to build into the ground?

Early on from trial and error.

Even though they know it, people do not use it to solve levels for a surprisingly long time. People tend to get stuck on Boundary Line, and Postcard from Lemmingland, and No Added Colors or Lemmings. All these levels have at least one standard route involving building into a walkable step to turn.

If you expect new users to play your pack, maybe make a dedicated level.

All new users play the original games though, before venturing into other people's packs.

-- Simon

Offline namida

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Re: A topic for me to discuss things with other level designers
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2015, 11:59:19 am »
Personally, I didn't learn that trick (at least that I remember) until Taxing 3, where I couldn't find any other way than using a builder to stop a digger, then noticed what happens in regards to the builder's direction. However, it is a logical combination of how the two skills work, so I wouldn't consider it an advanced skill as such. Certianly, anyone who's completed even just Orig should know this trick already.
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline ccexplore

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Re: A topic for me to discuss things with other level designers
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2015, 09:50:35 pm »
Are you thinking of the dig-and-build turn-around, or the variation where you simply build at an appropriate location on uneven (ie. not perfectly flat) terrain to turn around?  The latter may be more of a leap than the former, and it may be the case (haven't checked thoroughly) that no level in original Lemmings ever require that variation.

Offline exit

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Re: A topic for me to discuss things with other level designers
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2015, 04:54:54 pm »
No Added Colours or Lemmings(Mayhem 20) uses the trick to turn around the lemming so that he can mine under the blocker. I think that's the first time you're required to use it, but there are many levels where knowing that trick can be useful. Unless you're making a lemmings tutorial pack, I wouldn't "teach" the player the trick. You should expect the player to have beaten Lemmings 1, which means that they should already know the trick.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: A topic for me to discuss things with other level designers
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2015, 09:35:13 pm »
No Added Colours or Lemmings(Mayhem 20) uses the trick to turn around the lemming so that he can mine under the blocker. I think that's the first time you're required to use it

Strictly speaking it's not actually required:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That being said, the "typical" solution you alluded to is likely the one most people solved the level with.  Or if nothing else, people who are in the process of working out a solution are likely to stumble onto the behavior when trying to build there.

Offline Proxima

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Re: A topic for me to discuss things with other level designers
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2015, 12:03:55 am »
Strictly speaking it's not actually required:
Yeah, pretty sure that's how I solved it the first time :lix-tongue:

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Re: When do newcomers learn to turn by building?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2015, 08:08:51 am »
Sorry for not replying, I've been on a little break from Lemmings. Thanks for your replies, though, they're certainly useful!
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 11:56:21 pm by Simon »