Clones Release

[okmot]

It's a mistake to try to make Lemmings levels out of Clones, period.  .... It's much better if you play the actual game a bit and get a better sense of how the morphs (and various aspects of the game mechanics) actually work, and get a better sense of the various possibilities for puzzle ideas in Clones.

Yeah, any Lemmings level that relies on Climb, Mine, or Float will not be well recreated in Clones because of the absence or modification of those actions.  Better to try making some Quantum Loop puzzles which are unique to Clones

[namida]

As much as I'd love to, I have zero spare cash at the moment. I'll get back to you when I do.

[ccexplore]

I think I ragequit the editor once I discovered that my typical Lemmings level "Hello World" project (Rhapsody) was ridiculously backroutable with upgulpers >_<. I think I put QDots that rewarded the "normal" solution but it felt a bit unrewarding to submit.

I decided to be a little more constructive and actually see if I can come up with a way to make your level work in Clones.

One simple possibility is that by making use of the proximity contraption, you can explicitly detect the presence of right-facing Clones within an area of your choosing that are carrying out particular morphs (eg. Clob, Gulp), and then trigger an Action object to force the Clones to revert to walking.  In effect, a one-way wall.  Granted, this is a little outside of the usual kinds of obstacles one encountered in normal Clone levels, but it can be made to work as I've verified it with an attempt at recreating "one-way digging to freedom".

A more refined possibility that is a little more natural, but I'll have to experiment and see if it really works:  there is a "gravitize" contraption in clones that can simulate the effect of "melting" terrain.  When triggered, the resulting effect is that any terrain pixels sitting in thin air will fall with gravity until it lands on some terrain again.  The effect of clobbing/gulping through such terrain will be that the tunnel will effectively seal itself as the ceiling of the tunnel will collapse down closing out the tunnel.

My idea is that perhaps we can set up the terrain so that it is gravitized, but there is a switch somewhere in the level that the Clones can get to in order to disable the gravitized effect.  Thus you need to take the intended route in order to clob/gulp your way to the exit.  With the proper annotations, it can be explained to the player in a way that will feel natural rather than contrived.

Anyway, if I have time I might actually try and see what I can come up with, and post the resulting level here.  If anything, for me I think the biggest challenge is how much more difficult I found it is to put together levels in general in Clones, with its much greater variety of terrain and such.

[ccexplore]

This is what I came up with in an attempt to convert Insane Steve's "Rhapsody" into a decent Clones level.  The result looks very much like the original, and has roughly the same general route, but obviously the specifics play out a little differently due to the Clones-related differences.

This ends up being a quantum loop level.  As you have noticed, I also manage to enforce the intended route without doing any shenanigans that try to explicitly detect the player gulping in the wrong direction.  In other words, none of the "special tricks" I mentioned in the previous post.

The attached file is a Clones package, which as you know, you can simply double-click/open to install into your copy of the game, once you have the game installed.  I've also attached a screenshot, but note that it is the preview graphic generated by Clones, and there are known bugs with the preview graphic such that it does not exactly match what it really looks like in the actual game.  But close enough.

Please don't upload the package to Clones.com website.  It was thrown together in a few hours with little regard to aesthetics.

[okmot]

This is what I came up with in an attempt to convert Insane Steve's "Rhapsody" into a decent Clones level.

Nice work!  I tried out the level quickly but was unable to solve it      Did you have to make the level QL to maintain the feel of the original, or was that a personal choice?

[ccexplore]

The main goal in this exercise was to prevent the backroute of having Clones directly gulp starting from the left end of the level to reach the exit, to keep roughly the same general route as the intended solution in the original level, and yes, to keep the appearances similar (although pragmatically it is also easier for me not to have to invent any new terrain).

I eventually came up with the insight that if we make 2 separate groups of lemmings of different sizes, the asymmetry, plus the fact that different morphs can be given to the 2 groups, together may be able to help with preventing a left-to-right gulp, and from that point I ended up with a quantum loop level.  It has occurred to me that another way is to use pick-up morphs, but that feels to me like it would give away the general solution route a little too much (but then again, the general solution route isn't that hidden to begin with IMO).

I do have to agree that some of my changes may actually end up making the level harder than the original, but as a proof of concept I really don't want to spend too much time on the level as long as I got it to work.  See below for solution (highlight to read):

First green clone blocks to the right.  Then have the blue clones clob past the 2 pillars and block on the left.  Spin a blue clone up to the top of the pillars structure, and then mold at the right end of it so he ends up on the top of the green cloning chamber afterwards.  It may not look like it, but this mold bridge will also be sufficient in allowing the green clone to spin up and end up walking to the right on top of the cloning chamber, without hitting the zapper trap.  [Because his head will hit on the tip of the mold bridge]

The next part is about timing.  The blue clone will drill down on the left edge of the pillar at the right end of the level.  The green clone will fall into where the blue clone is drilling, turn around facing left, and then before he falls off the pillar for good, he will mold to the left.  The idea is to allow him to mold when he's about mid-height of the pillar [ie. while the blue clone is still drilling!], and he will be able to get pass the giant black hole right of the beaming pad.  He can then be shrunk down to form the path to the exit for the blue clones via gulping and clobbing (there is a pick-up clob buried hidden in the ground nearby, it is not absolutely necessary but makes the level much less tedious than having to just gulp).  You finish by having the blue clones drill down to reach the path blazed by the green clone.

[okmot]

Just bumping the thread to announce that we've released an awesome new version of Clones (v1.29), here is what's different:

New Features
- Experimental support for LAN co-op singleplayer puzzles.
- Co-op teammate mouse position (multiplayer and singleplayer).
- Decoherence detection in Quantum Loop mode.
- Experimental support for n00b mode game option.
- Experimental support for super mold game option.
- Scoreboard for Capture The Clone indicates if a Star Clone is near an exit.
- Lop prediction toggle (bind key from options menu).
- New Mold tutorial level (with one hard to reach Qdot)
- Ice Climb from demo included with Gofo in full game.

Enhancements
- Better edge select for clones on wrapped levels.
- Smaller highlight arrow for teammate clone selection.
- No stamping during a CloneStats match.
- Updated Wattson's final battle.
- Increased morph count max to 195.
- Improved Quantum Loop pregame/postgame GUI.
- Camera only follows Light Clones if they move.
- Global keybindings (screenshot, fullscreen, etc.)

Bug Fixes
- Level title overlap.
- Acidrain trap works when particles have been disabled.
- Many small fixes in the level editor.
- Moving platform removes a Doppel.
- Delta score indicator didn't handle ties correctly.


The biggest changes were the singleplayer co-op mode, the changes to the Quantum Loop mode, and including a new (easier) tutorial level for the Mold (build) morph.  Watching new players get stuck on the old one was too upsetting for me
Only a few updates to the editor, mainly thanks to CCX.

We are having a multiplayer jam this weekend, some new levels with moving starts and exits will be tested and then published to the website so that players can see how it was done using the logic traps in the editor.

[okmot]

Having another Multiplayer Jam this Saturday 26th March 2011 at noon (CST) and 8pm (CST).  Everyone is welcome and it's free to participate, just install the demo here:
http://clonesgame.com/download-demo

Now that players on the same team can see each others mouse position it's much easier to work efficiently because you can see your partners intent much of the time.

I've recently installed SC2 so i might run both games and toggle between as needed

Also, here is a short article about using the level editor to make moving start points:
http://www.desura.com/games/clones/tutorials/clones-level-editor-dynamic-spawn-points

[okmot]

Thought you guys might be interested to know that we've just released a new version of Clones (1.30) that includes support for a "Morph On Click" mode (at geoo's insistence) which aims to be closer to the normal Lemmings input scheme .  I'm sure it could still use some tweaks though.  This feature is available in the full game and the free demo.  Here is a list of all changes:

New Features
- Transition Queue for morphs, clone will do next task after
completing current one
- Morph On Click mode to emulate Lemmings-style input
- New clone AI available in editor
- New traps available in editor (DamageClone, KeyBind, ParticleSpawn)
- Nova will shatter a Spinning clone
- Player names and morphs now show during playbacks

Enhancements
- Game fonts now sharper at higher resolutions
- Updated Quantum Loop pregame voice bubble
- Wrap indicator on level select and minimap
- Lop Predict toggle state saved in player profile
- Low morph count indicator above clone
- Multiple clones under selected clone indicator
- Morph counts now display on scores menu
- Some popups can be closed with ESC now
- Morph count check is now on server
- Black holes tint to clone color briefly
- Directional force arrow for instant morph mode
- Auto game speed decrease if high lag players detected
- Co-op mouse position not tied to game speed

Bug Fixes
- Particle respawns if trapped under water
- Crash when uploading a package in fullscreen
- Fixed volume adjust showing Quit Game prompt
- Future clone Lop Predict bug
- Star Clone in test mode in editor bug
- Wrong CloneMaster in HUD during Co-op play
- Singleplayer port is now OS assigned, but can be fixed

Also, for all you level designers you might be interested in perusing the Clones level gallery, there have been a few user-generated uploads recently - http://clonesgame.com/package/gallery

[Adam]

Nice.. only thing which slightly disappoints me about Clones is the cost. It's put me off playing, 'cause I probably wouldn't use it regularly enough to justify paying for it.

[okmot]

Nice.. only thing which slightly disappoints me about Clones is the cost. It's put me off playing, 'cause I probably wouldn't use it regularly enough to justify paying for it.

I also dislike paying for things, unless i can eat them.   We thought long and hard about which price to set the game at.  $9.99 feels right to us, and there is infinite re-playability with the editor and user content, plus multiplayer.
My advice is to wait for the next sale and then get it   Unless we can work out a deal in which you contribute some quality levels in exchange for a generous discount.

[ccexplore]

Nice.. only thing which slightly disappoints me about Clones is the cost. It's put me off playing, 'cause I probably wouldn't use it regularly enough to justify paying for it.

Maybe you should try out the free demo version first to get a sense of how regularly you think you'll play it.  Especially if you really feel you won't be playing it enough for merely $9.99, the demo version may well last just long enough for you, at a low low price of $0!  You can even use the demo version to join multiplayer sessions! (but you can't host your own)

Frankly I'm a little surprised that $9.99 is still too much for you.  A dinner for yourself at an average restaurant will probably cost more and most likely won't give you as many hours of pleasure.   I feel like I need to apologize in advance for what I just said in case you are in some dire financial trouble I don't know about.

[okmot]

I feel like I need to apologize in advance for what I just said in case you are in some dire financial trouble I don't know about.

Perhaps licensing the Lemmings graphic emoticons drained his bank account

[Adam]

I'm just a tight git!

I'll probably splash out for it eventually.. just being a little bit money-tight 'cause I'm saving up for a few things.

[namida]

^ More or less what he said. Except instead of saving, it's getting completely back on my feet after about 4 months of not having a proper job.