Author Topic: Clones Release  (Read 14171 times)

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Offline okmot

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Clones Release
« on: November 08, 2010, 09:58:30 PM »
After years of hard work we're pleased to announce that Clones will be made available to the public on Friday Nov. 19th!  It will be available on Steam, D2D, and our own website to start.

The Steam version of the game will have 64 achievements, leaderboards for each of the over 150 puzzles, and cloud support for your game profile.  As a special offer to all of you Lemmings veterans we are willing to provide a free copy of the Steam version if you promise to create 3 Clones levels (singleplayer or multiplayer) and upload them to our website, ClonesGame.com.  There are a limited number of keys we can give out so it's first come, first served.  ;P

Send me a PM if you are interested in this offer.

rt
www.ClonesGame.com

p.s. here is a recent gameplay video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q68kwN1hSF4

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2010, 01:01:50 AM »
The Steam version of the game will have 64 achievements, leaderboards for each of the over 150 puzzles, and cloud support for your game profile.

Does that mean the non-Steam versions are missing some features from the Steam version?  It'd be good to get a feature comparison list if there are notable differences between the various versions offered.

Offline Minim

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2010, 02:48:49 PM »
I'm a bit confused about the releases, maybe because I never had them before. ??? What is Steam and D2D?
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Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2010, 04:15:05 PM »
Quote from: ccexplore
Does that mean the non-Steam versions are missing some features from the Steam version?  It'd be good to get a feature comparison list if there are notable differences between the various versions offered.

The Non-Steam version is identical to the Steam version.  However the Steam version has a few "achievements" which are unique to Steam, such as a "Speedrun" award if you can beat all 10 CloneMaster bosses in under 90 mins.  Most of the Steam achievements are the same as the unlockable bonus items in the non-steam version (stamps, decorations, and extra levels).
There is no additional content in the Steam version.

Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2010, 04:16:33 PM »

Offline Mr. K

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2010, 12:57:00 AM »
Oh wow, it's been a long time.  I remember playing old Clones betas back when I was in elementary school. :o

Wouldn't mind trying my hand at some level making for it, but I dunno if my skills have improved at all.  I'd definitely like to check the game out though.

Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2010, 11:15:53 PM »
Oh wow, it's been a long time.  I remember playing old Clones betas back when I was in elementary school. :o

Yes, we've been tweaking the game for a long time now.  We are excited to finally release :)  I've sent you a PM with a key.  If you encounter problems in the level editor please post about them in our forums.

Offline okmot

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Clones Steam Sale
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2010, 07:27:47 PM »
For you Lemmings fans that haven't yet tried out Clones, today is the perfect time.  The game is 75% Off on Steam today:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/72400/

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2010, 08:53:28 PM »
Wow seriously?  75% off from an already low price of $9.99 USD? :o  I think my lunch cost more than that!

Anyway, that's awesome and I hope sales are going well for you guys.  Happy holidays! :thumbsup:

Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2010, 06:02:24 AM »
Even though I was a beta tester, and I did have my beefs as a "self-considered" game designer with experience in action-puzzle, I am strongly considering buying a legitimate copy of the game to support the developers. The engine is incredible, and there's some very good puzzles in this game.

This is, essentially, the "new" gamer's generation of Lemmings. Although this may be optimistic, I hope it takes off or is remembered 10 years later as such.
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Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2010, 08:06:44 PM »
Thanks for the kind words guys :)  Steve have you claimed your complimentary copy for being a beta tester?  Either Steam or non-Steam, although the Steam version will always be more up to date because of the ease of updating.  We'd welcome more feedback, especially on the editor, if you have the time.

Offline namida

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2011, 05:15:15 PM »
Hm, I'm getting this when I have some spare money.
I remember back in the days of the old version when there was always a game, back when Xtraverse (who I'd already known from a Commander Keen forum) and others were on it, and the clones were Greys, not blobs...

I think I made a few levels back then, not that they were really that good...
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Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2011, 07:50:00 AM »
Thanks for the kind words guys :)  Steve have you claimed your complimentary copy for being a beta tester?  Either Steam or non-Steam, although the Steam version will always be more up to date because of the ease of updating.  We'd welcome more feedback, especially on the editor, if you have the time.

I don't have a Steam account, so I wouldn't be able to download it there as of right now. If there was a way to get a key outside of it I'd be willing to provide more feedback on the editor. I think I ragequit the editor once I discovered that my typical Lemmings level "Hello World" project (Rhapsody) was ridiculously backroutable with upgulpers >_<. I think I put QDots that rewarded the "normal" solution but it felt a bit unrewarding to submit.

But yea I'd definitely be willing to help the post-beta design process.
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2011, 08:31:57 AM »
I think I ragequit the editor once I discovered that my typical Lemmings level "Hello World" project (Rhapsody) was ridiculously backroutable with upgulpers >_<. I think I put QDots that rewarded the "normal" solution but it felt a bit unrewarding to submit.

It's a mistake to try to make Lemmings levels out of Clones, period.  I tried the same route at first and didn't really went anywhere (though ultimately, I did manage to create a level that would also work in Lemmings, but it really isn't all that interesting); the game physics really are different enough in details, despite whatever outward similar appearances.  It's much better if you play the actual game a bit and get a better sense of how the morphs (and various aspects of the game mechanics) actually work, and get a better sense of the various possibilities for puzzle ideas in Clones.

Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2011, 05:45:49 PM »
Hm, I'm getting this when I have some spare money.
I remember back in the days of the old version when there was always a game, back when Xtraverse (who I'd already known from a Commander Keen forum) and others were on it, and the clones were Greys, not blobs...

I think I made a few levels back then, not that they were really that good...

That was years ago  :D  But i do remember some of those levels, i think it was Xtraverse that made the "X" map which was the inspiration for the current "X" map, and also the precursor to Octogame" game since at that time we only had up and down gravity.

The game is currently on sale on Get Games:
http://www.getgamesgo.com/catalogue/game/clones

Grab it and make some more sweet levels!  :thumbsup:

Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2011, 08:54:30 PM »
It's a mistake to try to make Lemmings levels out of Clones, period.  .... It's much better if you play the actual game a bit and get a better sense of how the morphs (and various aspects of the game mechanics) actually work, and get a better sense of the various possibilities for puzzle ideas in Clones.

Yeah, any Lemmings level that relies on Climb, Mine, or Float will not be well recreated in Clones because of the absence or modification of those actions.  Better to try making some Quantum Loop puzzles which are unique to Clones :)

Offline namida

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2011, 03:25:26 AM »
As much as I'd love to, I have zero spare cash at the moment. I'll get back to you when I do.
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2011, 09:29:25 PM »
I think I ragequit the editor once I discovered that my typical Lemmings level "Hello World" project (Rhapsody) was ridiculously backroutable with upgulpers >_<. I think I put QDots that rewarded the "normal" solution but it felt a bit unrewarding to submit.

I decided to be a little more constructive and actually see if I can come up with a way to make your level work in Clones.

One simple possibility is that by making use of the proximity contraption, you can explicitly detect the presence of right-facing Clones within an area of your choosing that are carrying out particular morphs (eg. Clob, Gulp), and then trigger an Action object to force the Clones to revert to walking.  In effect, a one-way wall.  Granted, this is a little outside of the usual kinds of obstacles one encountered in normal Clone levels, but it can be made to work as I've verified it with an attempt at recreating "one-way digging to freedom".

A more refined possibility that is a little more natural, but I'll have to experiment and see if it really works:  there is a "gravitize" contraption in clones that can simulate the effect of "melting" terrain.  When triggered, the resulting effect is that any terrain pixels sitting in thin air will fall with gravity until it lands on some terrain again.  The effect of clobbing/gulping through such terrain will be that the tunnel will effectively seal itself as the ceiling of the tunnel will collapse down closing out the tunnel.

My idea is that perhaps we can set up the terrain so that it is gravitized, but there is a switch somewhere in the level that the Clones can get to in order to disable the gravitized effect.  Thus you need to take the intended route in order to clob/gulp your way to the exit.  With the proper annotations, it can be explained to the player in a way that will feel natural rather than contrived.

Anyway, if I have time I might actually try and see what I can come up with, and post the resulting level here.  If anything, for me I think the biggest challenge is how much more difficult I found it is to put together levels in general in Clones, with its much greater variety of terrain and such.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2011, 04:01:46 PM »
This is what I came up with in an attempt to convert Insane Steve's "Rhapsody" into a decent Clones level.  The result looks very much like the original, and has roughly the same general route, but obviously the specifics play out a little differently due to the Clones-related differences.

This ends up being a quantum loop level.  As you have noticed, I also manage to enforce the intended route without doing any shenanigans that try to explicitly detect the player gulping in the wrong direction.  In other words, none of the "special tricks" I mentioned in the previous post.

The attached file is a Clones package, which as you know, you can simply double-click/open to install into your copy of the game, once you have the game installed.  I've also attached a screenshot, but note that it is the preview graphic generated by Clones, and there are known bugs with the preview graphic such that it does not exactly match what it really looks like in the actual game.  But close enough.

Please don't upload the package to Clones.com website.  It was thrown together in a few hours with little regard to aesthetics.

Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2011, 06:41:39 PM »
This is what I came up with in an attempt to convert Insane Steve's "Rhapsody" into a decent Clones level.

Nice work!  I tried out the level quickly but was unable to solve it  :-[    Did you have to make the level QL to maintain the feel of the original, or was that a personal choice?

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2011, 11:02:52 PM »
The main goal in this exercise was to prevent the backroute of having Clones directly gulp starting from the left end of the level to reach the exit, to keep roughly the same general route as the intended solution in the original level, and yes, to keep the appearances similar (although pragmatically it is also easier for me not to have to invent any new terrain).

I eventually came up with the insight that if we make 2 separate groups of lemmings of different sizes, the asymmetry, plus the fact that different morphs can be given to the 2 groups, together may be able to help with preventing a left-to-right gulp, and from that point I ended up with a quantum loop level.  It has occurred to me that another way is to use pick-up morphs, but that feels to me like it would give away the general solution route a little too much (but then again, the general solution route isn't that hidden to begin with IMO).

I do have to agree that some of my changes may actually end up making the level harder than the original, but as a proof of concept I really don't want to spend too much time on the level as long as I got it to work.  See below for solution (highlight to read):

Quote
First green clone blocks to the right.  Then have the blue clones clob past the 2 pillars and block on the left.  Spin a blue clone up to the top of the pillars structure, and then mold at the right end of it so he ends up on the top of the green cloning chamber afterwards.  It may not look like it, but this mold bridge will also be sufficient in allowing the green clone to spin up and end up walking to the right on top of the cloning chamber, without hitting the zapper trap.  [Because his head will hit on the tip of the mold bridge]

The next part is about timing.  The blue clone will drill down on the left edge of the pillar at the right end of the level.  The green clone will fall into where the blue clone is drilling, turn around facing left, and then before he falls off the pillar for good, he will mold to the left.  The idea is to allow him to mold when he's about mid-height of the pillar [ie. while the blue clone is still drilling!], and he will be able to get pass the giant black hole right of the beaming pad.  He can then be shrunk down to form the path to the exit for the blue clones via gulping and clobbing (there is a pick-up clob buried hidden in the ground nearby, it is not absolutely necessary but makes the level much less tedious than having to just gulp).  You finish by having the blue clones drill down to reach the path blazed by the green clone.

Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2011, 08:38:35 PM »
Just bumping the thread to announce that we've released an awesome new version of Clones (v1.29), here is what's different:

New Features
- Experimental support for LAN co-op singleplayer puzzles.
- Co-op teammate mouse position (multiplayer and singleplayer).
- Decoherence detection in Quantum Loop mode.
- Experimental support for n00b mode game option.
- Experimental support for super mold game option.
- Scoreboard for Capture The Clone indicates if a Star Clone is near an exit.
- Lop prediction toggle (bind key from options menu).
- New Mold tutorial level (with one hard to reach Qdot)
- Ice Climb from demo included with Gofo in full game.

Enhancements
- Better edge select for clones on wrapped levels.
- Smaller highlight arrow for teammate clone selection.
- No stamping during a CloneStats match.
- Updated Wattson's final battle.
- Increased morph count max to 195.
- Improved Quantum Loop pregame/postgame GUI.
- Camera only follows Light Clones if they move.
- Global keybindings (screenshot, fullscreen, etc.)

Bug Fixes
- Level title overlap.
- Acidrain trap works when particles have been disabled.
- Many small fixes in the level editor.
- Moving platform removes a Doppel.
- Delta score indicator didn't handle ties correctly.


The biggest changes were the singleplayer co-op mode, the changes to the Quantum Loop mode, and including a new (easier) tutorial level for the Mold (build) morph.  Watching new players get stuck on the old one was too upsetting for me :)
Only a few updates to the editor, mainly thanks to CCX.

We are having a multiplayer jam this weekend, some new levels with moving starts and exits will be tested and then published to the website so that players can see how it was done using the logic traps in the editor.


Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2011, 08:03:16 PM »
Having another Multiplayer Jam this Saturday 26th March 2011 at noon (CST) and 8pm (CST).  Everyone is welcome and it's free to participate, just install the demo here:
http://clonesgame.com/download-demo

Now that players on the same team can see each others mouse position it's much easier to work efficiently because you can see your partners intent much of the time.

I've recently installed SC2 so i might run both games and toggle between as needed :)

Also, here is a short article about using the level editor to make moving start points:
http://www.desura.com/games/clones/tutorials/clones-level-editor-dynamic-spawn-points

Offline okmot

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New Clones Version
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2011, 07:32:01 PM »
Thought you guys might be interested to know that we've just released a new version of Clones (1.30) that includes support for a "Morph On Click" mode (at geoo's insistence) which aims to be closer to the normal Lemmings input scheme :thumbsup:.  I'm sure it could still use some tweaks though.  This feature is available in the full game and the free demo.  Here is a list of all changes:

New Features
- Transition Queue for morphs, clone will do next task after
completing current one
- Morph On Click mode to emulate Lemmings-style input
- New clone AI available in editor
- New traps available in editor (DamageClone, KeyBind, ParticleSpawn)
- Nova will shatter a Spinning clone
- Player names and morphs now show during playbacks

Enhancements
- Game fonts now sharper at higher resolutions
- Updated Quantum Loop pregame voice bubble
- Wrap indicator on level select and minimap
- Lop Predict toggle state saved in player profile
- Low morph count indicator above clone
- Multiple clones under selected clone indicator
- Morph counts now display on scores menu
- Some popups can be closed with ESC now
- Morph count check is now on server
- Black holes tint to clone color briefly
- Directional force arrow for instant morph mode
- Auto game speed decrease if high lag players detected
- Co-op mouse position not tied to game speed

Bug Fixes
- Particle respawns if trapped under water
- Crash when uploading a package in fullscreen
- Fixed volume adjust showing Quit Game prompt
- Future clone Lop Predict bug
- Star Clone in test mode in editor bug
- Wrong CloneMaster in HUD during Co-op play
- Singleplayer port is now OS assigned, but can be fixed

Also, for all you level designers you might be interested in perusing the Clones level gallery, there have been a few user-generated uploads recently - http://clonesgame.com/package/gallery

Offline Adam

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2011, 08:50:19 PM »
Nice.. only thing which slightly disappoints me about Clones is the cost. It's put me off playing, 'cause I probably wouldn't use it regularly enough to justify paying for it.

Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2011, 10:50:52 PM »
Nice.. only thing which slightly disappoints me about Clones is the cost. It's put me off playing, 'cause I probably wouldn't use it regularly enough to justify paying for it.

I also dislike paying for things, unless i can eat them.   We thought long and hard about which price to set the game at.  $9.99 feels right to us, and there is infinite re-playability with the editor and user content, plus multiplayer.
My advice is to wait for the next sale and then get it :)  Unless we can work out a deal in which you contribute some quality levels in exchange for a generous discount.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2011, 11:05:35 PM »
Nice.. only thing which slightly disappoints me about Clones is the cost. It's put me off playing, 'cause I probably wouldn't use it regularly enough to justify paying for it.

Maybe you should try out the free demo version first to get a sense of how regularly you think you'll play it.  Especially if you really feel you won't be playing it enough for merely $9.99, the demo version may well last just long enough for you, at a low low price of $0!  You can even use the demo version to join multiplayer sessions! (but you can't host your own)

Frankly I'm a little surprised that $9.99 is still too much for you.  A dinner for yourself at an average restaurant will probably cost more and most likely won't give you as many hours of pleasure. :P  I feel like I need to apologize in advance for what I just said in case you are in some dire financial trouble I don't know about. :-\

Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2011, 04:47:28 PM »
I feel like I need to apologize in advance for what I just said in case you are in some dire financial trouble I don't know about. :-\

Perhaps licensing the Lemmings graphic emoticons drained his bank account ;)

Offline Adam

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2011, 05:02:53 PM »
I'm just a tight git! :P

I'll probably splash out for it eventually.. just being a little bit money-tight 'cause I'm saving up for a few things.

Offline namida

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2011, 09:56:17 AM »
^ More or less what he said. Except instead of saving, it's getting completely back on my feet after about 4 months of not having a proper job.
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Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2011, 01:05:10 AM »
^ More or less what he said. Except instead of saving, it's getting completely back on my feet after about 4 months of not having a proper job.

If your job is proper now then it's a great time to grab a stylish boxed copy  :P  I'm thinking of getting a few dozen and building a summer fort to live in.

If you're still not convinced read this review, it seems like it was written by a Lemmings fan.  I just wish we could find a way to get more people playing multiplayer more often.  Any ideas?  More coordinated "multiplayer jam" events?

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2011, 04:03:03 AM »
Yeah, multiplayer is definitely a very tricky chicken and egg problem.  Do you have any data on whether the situation is better with Steam users vs non-Steam (ie. are more percentages of Steam users active in MP vs. non-Steam)?  If so it may be an indication of the issue of coordinating matches, maybe.

Perhaps the $ you've earned so far on Clones may allow you to, at least for a short while, hire a pool of people whose FT/PT job is to host public MP sessions and invite others to join?  They don't even have to be good MP players, if anything that might be a hindrance. :P  The theory is that maybe once you get enough of a nucleus of people hooked on MP, then at some point hopefully it becomes self-sustaining and you no longer need to continue hiring the artificial pool of people to maintain an active MP community of players.

Another way to go is to see if we can work out some other way to incentivitize people into doing MP besides just the sheer fun of it.  No ideas from me so far, but if I think of anything I'll post here.

[edit: in the meanwhile, I guess more jams won't hurt and is certainly cheaper :P.  Are you able to see from historical data whether the jams have the desired effects (in terms of getting more players more active in MP) and for how long the effects last?]

Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2011, 08:28:25 PM »
Do you have any data on whether the situation is better with Steam users vs non-Steam (ie. are more percentages of Steam users active in MP vs. non-Steam)?
[edit: in the meanwhile, I guess more jams won't hurt and is certainly cheaper :P.  Are you able to see from historical data whether the jams have the desired effects (in terms of getting more players more active in MP) and for how long the effects last?]

Even among Lemmings fans it seems that competitive multiplayer is an acquired taste.  One must be first skilled enough with the actions/morphs through singleplayer training before moving on to real time combat, but also enjoy that type of play. Jams certainly have the effect of bringing new players in and helping existing ones to be more active.  We almost have an "event" system ready for the site to help players view, create, and join Jam events.
You are right that we'd need to hit some critical threshold of online players before it can become self sustaining, this is largely tied to number of units sold so our best bang for buck would be advertising... oh, did i mention that Clones is on sale on Steam right now for 50% off? ;)

http://store.steampowered.com/app/72400

Offline namida

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2011, 09:56:04 PM »
I still need to get this... but I think I'll wait until multiplayer picks up a bit, if it's not doing so well right now...
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Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2011, 06:42:53 PM »
Just posted some HD videos of intense matches between the Lord of Lix and the Creator of Clones:

Clones - Hausdorff Rematch - Simon wins

Clones - Hausdorff - rt wins

Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2011, 11:07:20 PM »
We are going to be part of a local city LAN tournament in November, and we may be able to convince them to accept remote entries for those that are interested in competitive play.  I'll post again when i have more info.

A new Clones puzzle pack is available, with some new concepts.  Check it out!

Offline okmot

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Clones Giveaway
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2011, 05:36:20 PM »
We are giving away free copies of Clones for the upcoming LAN tournament and although online competitors are not likely to be permitted i thought some of you might appreciate the free lunch :)  To redeem simply enter the coupon "BASELAN22" and click "Apply To Order" when you go through the Clones Store checkout.  If you do take advantage of this then consider uploading a level pack as a way to say thanks.

If the above link does not work for you then just go to http://www.ClonesGame.com and click the "Buy Now" link next to the Clones Store option in the list of distributors.

Offline okmot

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Clones Giveaway
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2011, 05:46:14 PM »
Reminder that the 100% discount key described above will be expiring after this weekend.

Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2012, 04:40:35 PM »
I still need to get this... but I think I'll wait until multiplayer picks up a bit, if it's not doing so well right now...

The multiplayer has increased recently, especially in the mornings here (10am CST, early evening over the pond).  We released a patch with multiplayer server notification and in-game package downloading.  The latest level pack by Haymanizer is quite good, i enjoyed it and i suspect other puzzle lovers would too (looking at CCX) :)

Offline okmot

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2012, 06:08:40 PM »
Clones is on Sale for 75% off on Steam this weekend: http://store.steampowered.com/app/72400/

Do the right thing and buy 4 copies ;)

Offline okmot

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1,000 copies giveaway
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2012, 11:28:38 PM »
We are giving away 1,000 copies of Clones (on Steam) - enter to win one here http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/eUW3z/clones

The giveaway lasts until this Saturday the 8th.

In addition, we are having a multiplayer jam this weekend so look for a server or host one at noon CST on Saturday if you are interested  :thumbsup:   You'd don't even need the full version, the free demo will work! (for limited maps)

Offline mobius

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Re: Clones Release
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2012, 09:12:12 PM »
how do you know if you won?
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain