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Topics - geoo

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Contests / Level solving contest #3 (and results)
« on: January 26, 2019, 07:40:04 pm »
Welcome to the 3rd installment of this contest!

This is a bit of an experiment, but I created the same level in both Lix and NeoLemmix. I understand that there are physics differences and that some solutions that might work in one engine might not work in the other, but I hope most solutions will work the same and that many minor differences can be worked around, making it a fair game. At least I don't think there are any systemic biases giving one engine a clear advantage.
That said, if people are unhappy with this, I will restrict the contest to a single engine (based on popular opinion).

EDIT: I added a second version of the NeoLemmix level. The only difference is two little steel bumps on the top steel platforms. This is to account for the difference that you cannot assign miners/diggers on steel in NeoLemmix, while in Lix you can. You can submit solutions to either of the two NeoLemmix levels.

Goal: Try to solve the level using as few skills as possible. Tiebreaker: Higher number of lemmings/lix saved.
(Note that this is different from the previous 2 contests, the main criterion and the tiebreaker have been swapped!)

Submission deadline for solutions: Sunday Feb 17th, 6:00 am UTC
You can submit solutions for one or both engines. Submit to me via PM. When you submit, submit a replay, as well write down the number of skills used and number of lemmings/lix saved.

At the end, I will post a complete ranking list (determining the next contest host) as well as engine-specific ranking lists in case some solutions from one engine end up not working in the other.

PS: I made the NeoLemmix version in a text editor, because the NLEditor in Wine doesn't display any objects or tiles, and placing invisible tiles is kinda useless. That's why it's lacking any decoration.

Submissions so far:

Results in this post further down the thread.

Lix Multiplayer Dates / Lix (or UCH) tomorrow (Sunday Oct 14), 19 UTC?
« on: October 14, 2018, 04:34:19 am »
Anyone interested in playing tomorrow?

I'd also be up for Ultimate Chicken Horse instead.

Lix Main / Proposition for tumbler physics
« on: September 12, 2017, 06:47:19 pm »
Issue: (1) on 45 degree slopes, and as far as I'm aware also 60 degree slopes, the behaviour when a tumbler/jumper encounters terrain is inconsistent.
(2) the tumbler code is a messy blob.

Simon is addressing (2) with a solution that cannot address (1). Thus I'd propose a slightly different solution, which is rather modular, and the modules are easy to comprehend in what they are doing. I think the proposed rewrite mixes moving and collision checks a lot more than my proposal, which should make the code clearer.

Subroutine (1):
Determine first point of impact via going along the trajectory 1 pixel vertically or horizontally at a time.

Subroutine (2) [takes coordinate as argument], or probably better even 3 separate subroutines.
Let's call the coordinate that we got as argument (0,0).
Is there space below at (0,-1) or (0,-2), if yes, we've hit a ceiling.
Is there space above at (0,+1) or (0,+2)? if yes, we've hit floor.
Is there space one pixel behind at (-1,0)? If yes, we've hit a wall.
Return those three booleans.
Remark: Notice that as (0,0) is the first point of impact by only going vertically and horizontally, at least one of the three will be true.

Subroutine (3):
Call (1)
Call (2)
If we've hit floor and ceiling, use y-speed to determine whether to call landing or bumping subroutine (this only happens if you have a 1-px layer of terrain).
Else If we've hit floor, call landing subroutine.
Else If we've hit a ceiling, call bumping subroutine.
Else we've hit a wall (and nothing else), call reflection subroutine.

Note: The reason I propose checking 2 pixels in the ceiling and floor check in (2) is to handle 60 degree slopes consistently. Inconsistent behaviour will now only happen at slopes going at least 3 pixels up/down per 1 pixel horizontally, which I don't believe exist as tiles.

Lix Levels / Community set, changes for Lix 0.7.x
« on: June 21, 2017, 02:47:38 pm »
I updated three levels from the lemforum pack.

Every Lix: oriental fixes.
Let's Block and Blow: remake in lab tile set.
Low Profile: Adapted to new tumbler/floater physics.

I made a pull request for these, also see attached for reference.

I recorded a few replays and made a pull request.

Lix Main / Multiplayer: Gameplay modes
« on: September 11, 2016, 08:32:32 pm »
In the past, a variety of gameplay mode ideas have come up for multiplayer, and Simon recently brought up the issue again now that the coding for multiplayer in D Lix commences.

In this post I'll try to list and discuss most feature ideas that have popped up in the past. The main considerations are how much complexity they'd add to the game (and the UI), and how much gameplay value they add.

Survival mode. There there are no exits, and it times the death of your last lix. The objective is to outlive all opponents. I think this always boils down to the same gameplay at the end, a 1 vs 1 fight/dexterity fest, possibly with some strategies such as bunkering. Clones had it and it was called Quantum Quarrel, and I think it didn't see much use (and wasn't particularly fun).
I don't think it warrants a special game mode as it will probably not spark many new level ideas. And it's possible to kinda make it work anyway as in "Last Man Standing".

NaOH's Ark-like mode. You play an asymmetric level twice, with the player positions swapped. Whoever saves more cumulatively wins.
I think this can be done by consensus and doesn't warrant a special game mode, especially if it's possible to pre-assign hatches to colors in the lobby.

Race mode. The game times your first save, or maybe your n-th save. The objective is to be fastest. There are two questions here.
(1) How interesting is "first to save n wins" where n > 1. My hunch is that it'd only particularly be used in levels with little interaction, where the goal is to be the fasted to solve the level (basically each player plays a singleplayer level at the same time).
(2) Are we also interested in 2nd, 3rd, ... place and their times?
If the answer is yes to both questions, a game mode where in the final standing players are listed with their time might be warranted. If the answer is no, and only first to the finish is of interest level-design wise, then just having a nuke that finishes the game instantly if you've saved at least one lix and the overtime is set to 0:00 seems simpler and would just do the job.

Neutrals. A post above mentions the capture-the-clone mode from clones. There is one or a few designated clones that nobody controls, and you win if you get one of them. I'd propose the following generalization which I believe has a lot of gameplay potential: Neutral lixes. They could be pre-placed in the level, or come out of neutral hatches. Nobody can control them, they just wander around. One caveat is that all neutral hatches should release lixes simultaneously rather than sequentially, to be able to achieve perfect symmetry in 2P levels. These could even be an interesting addition to singleplayer. Either way, they could be a game-mode flag "only neutral lixes count", or this counting could be implicit whenever neutral lixes are present. I don't consider the latter simplifying gameplay though, as the player would still have to check which mode is in effect; a flag instead would also allow to have everyone count which I believe (but I'm not as convinced) is also interesting. Note that with an instant nuke (see below) this also implements the capture the clone mode.

Nuke modes. I think a lot of options have been floating around here. Cuber nuke, burner nuke, stunner nuke... Note that the idea is always that nuke triggers overtime if at least 1 lix has been saved by the player. Let me discuss 4 of the nuke ideas here:
  • Regular nuke: It's a bit disruptive, and you can badly mess up other players' routes. While this could be a strategic element, a lot of the effect is quite random. Maybe we just like it because we're used it, and it's gimmicky because "fun! flinging!".
  • Cuber nuke: Just as gimmicky but not as cool. Don't see much use in it.
  • Burner nuke: Player can set a timer for the game to end, but without disrupting the game. Other players can still finish their routes and nuking with the hope of messing up the other players' paths doesn't work anymore.
  • Concede: Trigger overtime, but your lix keep walking around, you just can't control them anymore. You'll think twice here if you nuke, and also you can't bail-out nuke when your bunch is walking towards someone else's exit. You can even nuke before your lix have entered your exit if you think they are safely walking into it. Could be implemented by turning the lix into neutrals. But at the same time they shouldn't be neutrals for counting purposes in the "only neutrals count" mode.
I think at most two different nuke modes should be implemented, and the last one is my clear favorite here. It could be visualized with white flags on the nuke button instead of the explosion. (Though that might be associated with losing the game, so maybe checkered flags for finishing the game?) I think I almost prefer the burner nuke over the regular one, but it's closer to the concede option while the regular nuke is the polar opposite, and has fun flinging. So I'd propose concede in addition to the nuke that we already have. Concede with overtime of 0:00 could also immediately end the game, thus indirectly implementing the first to the finish mode.
In particular, I feel that 0:00 in the editor being infinite over time is an artefact, and the editor should offer infinity as a time option (now that the cool infinity symbol is in).

In summary, personally I'd propose the following game-mode additions:
  • Concede in addition to regular nuke
  • Neutral lixes, and "only neutrals count" mode
I think this is a rather lean addition without too much extra complexity, but a lot of gameplay potential.

Lix Main / Decoration and Transparency
« on: May 29, 2016, 06:20:20 pm »
Currently, C++ Lix features decoration as a non-solid gadgets that possibly animates and has no function. If it's not animated, then it should be terrain (otherwise it's misleading, like when the shovel in Matt's goldmine tile set was still decoration). If it is animated, it still misleads the player as everything that moves tends to be important or dangerous. Decoration is always drawn behind terrain.

The only good use case of decoration is L1 legacy support. But L1 multi-part exits should be a single exit objects (possible to hard-code which deco goes with which exit).

What seems more useful to level-designers who wish to decorate their levels would be something that draws on terrain without affecting solidity. In particular, this would be useful with alpha blending. We've had a discussion about alpha-blending [1] before and it is a tricky issue if it is allowed for any kind of terrain pieces as it is unclear what should become solid/non-solid/steel. Instead, I propose a new type of decoration. Given a decoration image (with alpha channel), it would be drawn (with alpha blending) on any terrain/steel below without affecting its solidity/steel-ness, while it would not be drawn on non-solid terrain.

Example usage:
Green jade (from the sandstone tile set) could have its shading using alpha thus allowing it to be placed on any surface, not just sandstone colored ones.
Any kinds of shading/depth maps, like hieroglyphs that could be placed on stuff.
Decay such as moss or rust (caveat: should have a visually distinctive style from terrain which has a different effect when used on steel [2]).
Smoothen seams between terrain pieces.

Decorational stuff should also be allowed to be grouped together with terrain. This could even allow for convenient mix-and-match of textures and shading (shading for blocks, balls, pillars, ...).

Do gadgets already allow for alpha blending in the D port?

[1] Alpha blending:
[2] Terrain on steel:

Lix Main / Terrain composition
« on: May 08, 2016, 09:17:38 pm »
Level designers often like to cut terrain pieces into bits and paste them together into new shapes. Currently this needs to be done using black (eraser) terrain and the no-overwrite flag which is confusing and cumbersome, especially for more complex arrangements.

I propose to do away with the no-overwrite flag and support terrain composition instead. This would work with the following grouping functionality:

The designer selects an arrangement of terrain pieces (which may include black pieces), and can group them together into a single new terrain piece. Thus a new terrain piece is defined that behaves like a regular terrain piece. Parts of the composite piece that are covered by black terrain also part of the composite piece will become transparent. The original terrain pieces involved in the grouping are removed, but the game remembers which pieces a composite piece is comprised of, and also creates a new memory bitmap for this composite piece. Optionally, there could also be an ungroup functionality, which decomposes a composite piece into its parts.

Composite pieces can be defined recursively using existing composite pieces. The level stores how each defined piece is composed, and creates an internal memory bitmap of each such piece as it reads its definition from the level file. If a composite piece is not used in the level, the editor should ensure that the definition is also removed from the level file. Once the player loads a different level, internally the bitmaps of composite pieces can be deleted.

Backward compatibility.

Existing levels exploiting no-overwrite can be converted automatically.
Currently, the drawing algorithm draws the pieces in the order in which they are in the level file from back to front, black terrain erases, no-overwrite tiles don't overwrite already drawn tiles and are only drawn over void.

We achieve the same result as follows:
Input: An ordered list of terrain pieces, optionally with black terrain or no-overwrite flag.
Output: Definitions of composite terrain pieces, and an ordered list of (composite) terrain pieces (free from black or no-overwrite pieces) to be drawn from back to front.
We read the input list in order. At any given time, the current output O is an ordered list of (composite) terrain pieces. Three cases, depending on the next piece T in the input list:
  • T is normal terrain: append T to O.
  • T is no-overwrite terrain: prepend T to O. (Note: This works because O contains no black/no-overwrite pieces.)
  • T is black terrain: Initially, define S as the set of tiles in O that T overlaps. While there exists a tile T' in O\S such that there are tiles F and B in S with F overlapping T' and T' overlapping B, add T' to S. While there exists a sequence of tiles T1 -> T2 -> ... -> Tn in O\S such that there are tiles F and B in S with F -> T1 and Tn -> B, add T1, ..., Tn to S. Here -> denotes the overlapping relation. Group the tiles in S into a new tile N, and remove S and T from O. Let F be the tile with the lowest index overlapping N, and let B the tile with the highest index that is overlapped by N. Add N to O somewhere between B and F. (The following is Nepster's idea, with a slight fix:) Define a set S+ of all terrain pieces of O\S that are reachable via -> from S (i.e. via a sequence for forward edges). Then reindex them starting from max(S), while keeping their order. Put N in the list right before S+, and delete T and S from O.

Implementation notes:
  • If we want to allow composing steel and normal tiles, you'll have to remember the mask of each composite tile with bits for solidity and steel.
  • If a level does not contain no-overwrite pieces, no conversion is necessary.
  • Multiple consecutive black pieces can be processed in step, resulting in only one grouping. Black pieces that are not overlapped by anything else can just be added to the end of the list without grouping.
  • While processing terrain pieces, you could maintain a directed graph modeling the overlap relation within O. As a new piece is added to O, the graph needs to be updated. When a grouped tile is added (and thus some pieces deleted from O), I think the edges pointing to the new tile can be inferred from the edges belonging to the deleted vertices.

Lix Main / basher/miner❤blocker interaction, desired behavior?
« on: September 09, 2015, 11:06:14 pm »
We're currently implementing physics changes in Lix, and there are two issues we need to come up with a solution for.

The first one is a glitch allowing a basher to pass through terrain without removing it. This also works for miners.

Have a wall to the left.
Basher standing in front of wall, facing right.
Basher bashes a swing, but doens't move yet.
To second lix in front of basher, assign blocker.
Blocker turns basher.
Basher walks through the wall on the left.

On first glance, moving the check that looks for terrain to determine if the basher continues into the same frame as the terrain removal looks like it might solve the issue. But if there's terrain on the other side of the blocker as well (i.e. blocker and basher are trapped between two walls), the glitch still works. It's a rather specific setup then though.

Another, move involved idea is not allowing the basher to move forward if it were to move into terrain. This however would allow to stall bashers using cubers.

Or only allow turning the basher in the frames after moving forward but before the stroke, and disallow moving forward when the basher is facing a blocker and is in its turning field? Then basher/blocker interaction becomes inconsistent and confusing.

None of these are really satisfying, so we were wondering if there were any other ideas.

The second issue is about lix trapped between two blockers. In this case we disallow any horizontal movement, and the lix turns around every single frame. Now imagine a basher trapped here. The basher cycle consists of an even number of frames, so the terrain check and terrain removal always occurs on the same side. So you can trap a basher between two blockers even if there's terrain on only one side. Same issue with the miner, but more visible (Imagine a miner on top of a cube where the cube is located between two blockers): It removes terrain always on the same side, leaving a pillar of cube on one side. Maybe less serious but same issue also with builder bricks, they are always on the same side.

Simplest fix would be having exactly one frame in their cycle where bashers/miner/diggers are unturnable. Then there's an odd number of turnable frames and so terrain checks and removal are alternatively executed on both sides. Introduces slightly inconsistent behaviour, but it's not that visible.

Other idea is: detecting if a lix is trapped between two blockers is already implemented. In that case just check for terrain/remove terrain on both sides. What about the builder though?

Any input and suggestions are welcome.

Site Discussion / Server Move - Discussion and Status
« on: December 18, 2014, 11:52:34 am »
Why are we thinking about a server move?
We haven't managed to contact the server admin, Adam, in a very long time. He seems to be paying the server bill, but there's uncertainty for how long that would last, and the forum could go down at any point in time, and data might be lost. Without server access we also can't update the forum software, which right now is outdated, buggy and probably prone to exploits for spambots like the recent invasion. On a new server with someone active being server admin we have complete control over everything.

This is what has happened so far:
  • With Mr. K's help, we now have access to the admin control panel, but nobody of us has server access
  • Temporarily, to fight the spam bots, user registration was turned off for a day, which I changed to new users requiring approval by an administrator. It seems like there haven't been new members trying to register within the past two days, so I'm setting in back to normal now and see what happens.
  • We can't get hold of an up-to-date version of the database (that'd contain all user information, posts, everything we'd need to just move the forum over without issues)
  • Adam (and maybe Liam, whoever he is) is the only one able to get us the full database and the domain, we have tried to contact him, but without success so far

This is what we have access to right now:
  • Threads and posts from the Lemmingswelt forum (2004-2007 or so)
  • Complete database from the isamedia forum (2007-2009 or so)
  • Database of this forum from January 09th, 2014. All newer data is missing
  • namida can get the complete set of theads/posts/attachments of this forum at any point in time (I believe)

My suggestion is to allow some more time to contact Adam, discuss and not rush things, while still keeping posting in this forum and leaving namida's forum as the emergency option should the forum suddenly go down. (I don't think it's very likely that the forum will go down within the next month.) We should prepare everything for a swift move, and once preparations are finished set a date (and announce it a week in advance) for when the move shall take place. That day namida would grab all the data off the forum and import it over on the new forum, and then this forum would be closed (or at least become read-only to ensure new content will be posted on the new server).

The reason I suggest to keep posting here for now is that moving to the new forum would encourage reposting topics which would have to be merged later, which becomes messier the more time passes and thus puts us under time pressure.

If we can somehow get hold of Adam, this would make things a lot easier as we could just import the whole database and get a full copy of the forum, and in addition the domain So I encourage everyone to help us in our effort to contact Adam!
Should this not work, I'd suggest purging the few posts from the new forum and importing the members from the January 2014 database (this means we'd also have most PMs, and almost all posts would automatically already be linked to the users), while taking all the posts that namida will grab from here over. Furthermore, we could add the posts from the isamedia and lemmingswelt forums and try to link them to the user accounts (something that I feel very strongly about). If you forgot your password from January 2014, or if you registered later than January 2014 you could identify yourself and get access to your account/get it linked to the posts that you made. Maybe we could also get the PMs from the isamedia forum working, I personally find having an archive of my PMs important, but I don't know what other people think about that.

The plan I outlined is just my opinion.

Feel free to discuss!

Lix Levels / Lix Community Level Set - First complete Beta!
« on: July 02, 2014, 05:13:07 pm »
Finally I'm able to present a first complete beta of the lix community level set! 6 ratings of 40 levels each. No hints yet, but you can see them in the xls spreadsheet (see below). Especially me and Insane Steve still have to write hints for our levels.

Download of the level pack:
Level list, alphabetic (html):
Level list, alphabetic (xls spreadsheet):

Please make sure to use the latest version of lix (2015-09-02 or newer) to play these levels! You can get it here: And please refer to levels by their name rather than their rating and number, as the rating and number might still change.

I'm in the process of compiling a solution archive that contains at least one solution for each level. I will use that to verify that all levels are solvable, also for upcoming version. At this point I don't have a 100% guarantee that all levels are solvable, but don't have any reason to believe that the latest physics changes broke anything (I updated Trading and Cooperation for the new version). Once I've verified that all levels are solvable, I'll post that here.

For those who have not played the set before: Please record your solutions and post them here! Also tell us about levels that you thought were too hard or too easy for their position. There's also a folder 'outtakes' with levels that I moved out but that are still decent levels. You can have a look at these too and say if you think there's a level amongst the 240 official levels that could maybe be replaced with one of these because you e.g. feel it's better.

Proposed changes that will/might appear in some future version:
picard maneuver -> heels
Triangle Ineq: Enforce Akseli's variation? -- No
The last laugh: Enforce Akseli's variation?
Change Builder to Basher in 'Climb to Freedom'?
Slipping and Slipping Again: Replace Slipping Again with Top Gear or the original tseug version of Slipping? Fix Slipping.
Replace Three Days of the Condor with Lixes in Motion.
Sneak in The Mile High Club or some other of Ramon's levels
Absolute Zero or its Eye of the Needle? (Two other levels already use the Abs. Zero trick)
Follow the Yellow Brick Road – This was easier than Charge of the Lix Brigade imo (Akseli).
Backroute fixes:
Look at Well OK then. -- Leave as is.
Vicious 1: enforce use of a miner/digger at the very right?
Check levels where assigning a bomber within the first 5 seconds opens backroutes
Fix Just stop the bleeding

Changelog for the beta release:
2015-09-10: Nepster backroute fixes. Updates to levels using burners or both types of exploders. Moved levels around within and between ratings. Some other minor changes.
New: Daunting/repeatingpatterns.txt, Hopeless/parkinggarage.txt, Hopeless/lasranas.txt
Removed: Quirky/excavation.txt, Cunning/soaring.txt, Daunting/thebottomless.txt
2015-06-23: Backroute fixes: elixir, erbalunga, someliketorun, alieninvasion, backslash, buyonegetonefree1, buyonegetonefree2, cornerstone, littleminerpuzz3, narbaculardrop, ohnonotagain, themon0lith, trading, wereinthisonetog, bulldozer, lixesinarms, spingeometry, triangleineq
Time limit removed: changing, spingeometry
2015-04-25: Backroute fixes: Yuki, Muon, Madobe Nite, Hotel in Hell, Waltz, Seven Pillars
2014-08-02: Backroute fixes: bipolar (Akseli), devilsrighthand (Nepster), loveisover (Akseli), themon0lith (Akseli), wereinthisonetog (Akseli), lixesinarms (Nepster).
Frogs added to: recyclingplant, acompletelyridiculous.
New, more interesting version of thepit.
2014-07-15: Swapped acompletelyridiculous and thepit, swapped theitalianjob/walktheplank and danceswithlixes, swapped Minimalism 1 and Minimalism 2. Some other minor rearrangements.
Backroute fixes: anotherfuneral (sekti), breackout (sekti), ittakestime (Akseli), alieninvasion (Akseli), overthehump (Nepster), tributetobennyhill (sekti), chasm (Akseli), gethype (Akseli), lixesinarms (Nepster), thecrimsonroom (Akseli).
Dividing Three by Two: 100% requirement.
Minor changes: Walk the Plank, Lix Cannon, Excavation, Lix Potion Number Nine.
2014-07-06: You Only Get One Bash at It updated to v2 (don't know why I still had the old version here). 'Hole in the head gang' treatment for Just Stop the Bleeding.
2014-07-05: Minimalism 1: SI set to 12. Alien Invasion: Backroute fix.
2014-07-04-03: Every Which Way: backroute fix. Can't Reach It: eased execution. Fear of Heights: backroute fix.
2014-07-04-02: Removed time limit from Variety Day.
2014-07-04-01: Fixed Roundabout.
2014-07-03: Implemented the changes suggested in this post, see this post.

List of recent changes (apart from ordering) from the alpha to the beta release:

Levels I took out (first wave):
Play Ball!
Confusing Fractals
Leap Of The Locust
Wrong Way
A fearful Symmetry
A Soulful Bounding Leap!
It's All Uphill From Here
A Lix on the Edge!
Eye of the Needle
Heavenly skies
Lixes in Motion
The Giant Mushroom
Diggin' The Air

Levels I took out (second wave):
Paragliding to the Pyramid
Top Gear
Go Ahead and Help Yourself
The Road Not Taken
Castles in the Sky

Note: Some of these levels I will recommend or request to be included in Project Capybara.

Level changes:
A lot of levels in the Simple rating have skillset changes and maybe other miner changes. Please check for yourself if you have any objections.
The Ring of Fnargl: Skillset changed and hatch moved up for ease of execution.
Migration: No time-limit, no blocker/bomber, walker instead as discussed in IRC.
Escape the Pit: Skillset and terrain change.

Some style usage stats:
Insane Steve53
Ben Bryant2
M. Zurlinden2
Prob Lem1
Levels with time limits:

Lix Levels / Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« on: May 31, 2014, 02:34:06 am »
This is an incomplete alpha version of the Lix Community pack. We're getting close! Thanks everyone for contributing so far, and keep it up so we will finish soon!

The last 4 ratings (Cunning, Daunting, Vicious, Hopeless) are ordered. Please comment on any level that you think is in a place it doesn't belong. I adapted my ratings to take Nepster's comments into account, and then determined a positon based on my and Proxima's ratings. I also went for diversity, i.e. don't put similar levels too close together. The last few levels of a rating might be harder than the first few of the next rating.
I gave NaOH the task to come up with an ordering for the first 40 levels, possibly with adjustments to some levels to smoothen the difficulty curve.
Once that is done (maybe after some discussion), I'll compile a version where all levels are sorted into their ratings (probably still with excess levels).
Please also comment on any other issue there might be. There might be inconsistencies in capitalization of the level titles or author names, please point them out and suggest a fix.

A few levels need the new terrain updates:
Latest version of the level bundle (.zip):
Level list (html):
Level list (xls spreadsheet):
Date of last update for each level:
If you want all the levels viewable in lix in alphabetical order, just copy all the levels from the rating folders into the main folder.

This is a bit rushed, but I won't be home for the next three weeks and won't have much time to work on this. Please don't feel discourage from posting in the thread by my likely low activity for the next three weeks in this thread.

Right now there are 17 excess levels, meaning we have more than 40 per rating.
Below I compiled a list of levels that I consider in potential danger of being scrapped.
You're encouraged to compile your own list of levels you wouldn't mind seeing gone.

Some levels are not final. You can still update your levels, in fact some levels still need work. See below.
There's definitely no shortage of levels, so in order to add a level after this alpha has been released, please put with your levels a suggestion or a few suggestions (preferrably not in the top 12 of my list) of which level your new level should replace (not in the same position, they can end up in different ratings, it's just that one level goes and another level comes in).

You're encouraged to add hints to your levels that a player can iteratively view when stuck in a level! Most levels don't have hints yet, I only have a list of hints from Proxima so far. While not a must, please consider adding hints to your levels! Send them to me, preferred format: Take this spread sheet from and in the 4 tiny columns at the end there's space for 4 hints (if you need more, just continue in the next columns). At the end I will write a script to add the hints into the levels.

Please refer to levels with their name, not their rating as the latter might still change.

Some special ordering ponderings:
Switch Chasm (Vicious 40) and MERDEMERDE...(Early Hopeless)? - Chasm looks completely impossible, and it extremely hard to execute, that's why I thought it might fit Vicious 40, the most vicious of all levels. MERDE... is definitely easier, maybe a good breather in Hopeless. Another alternative for Vicious 40 might be Metal City Mayhem.
Which level last: The News Struck at Ten (formerly Stroke at Retirement Age), You Only Get One Bash at It, Brickout - It seems the Brickout will be a simplified version, and YOGOBAI has my easier alternative solution, so I went with TNSAT for now.
First level of Cunning: LIX, The Razor's Edge, Merge Sort - which one?

LIX: Add 1 minute challenge (already added in spreadsheet, please say if objecting)
Too Far to walk: 0:55 left on the clock challenge (already added in spreadsheet, please say if objecting)
You only get one bash at it: Have to add hints (Don't want to read them)
Put your lix on ice: Hints says to turn a lix in a miner tunnel (I guess), but you can just turn on steel.
Labyrinth of despair: Add hint re. 100% challenge

Levels that need a design overhaul in order to stay:
All over the place
Heavenly skies
Escape the Pit

Levels that could do with improved design:
The Giant Mushroom
Three Days of the Condor
The Lix Who Japed
Well OK Then
Nepster's complaints:
Babylon Fading
It's a long way up
Digging the Air (layout is good, but it doesn't fill one screen)
To Destroy is to Construct
Division of Labor.

Levels that are still WIP:

Levels with known backroutes (backroutes attached):
betchacantsave.txt (can save 2, though I wonder if the level is open-ended so there are no real backroutes?)

Suggested changes:
Lixology: replace with Breackout (attached), maybe with prettier water at the bottom once available
Dances with Lixes: Enforce trickier sol? (alternative version attached). Rationale: There are two quite different solution approaches. One of them is already used in 100% Built by Lixes and Ascending and Descending, while the other one is, I believe, novel. I attached a version with buzzsaws enforcing the second approach, I wonder whether I should include this version instead, as the ideas from the first approach are already featured in two other levels. (Spoiler: Approach one is building a bridge from the left, but not completely to the steel at the right, and have another lix build a bridge from the top of the steel to the left, thus falling onto the lower bridge. Approach 2 instead builds a bridge from left to right all the way to the steel, and then uses a bomber to simultaneously bomb through the bridge and make a dent in the block at the left that makes climbers turn around.)
It Takes Time to Build...: Cut down to 3 bashers/diggers?
Snowball Battle: Remove walker and increase spawn interval?
Just Stop the Bleeding: Still needs Steve's 'hole in the head gang' treatment

Below is a list of levels that are in danger of being scrapped, in order of magnitude of the threat that is exerted by me.
Other players are welcome to compile similar lists. Right now I think it's a good idea (once we have a first rating arranged) to compile an alpha with all 257 levels sorted, and have Akseli give this version with too many levels a playthrough and wait for comments, if Akseli is ok with that.
We need to scrap 17 in total:

Systematic Separation (Hopeless) - could go into RubiX' Epic Adventure
Low Profile (Vicious) - could go into RubiX' Epic Adventure
Tick Toxic (Daunting) - could go into RubiX' Epic Adventure
lixesinarms (Vicious) - part of MaZuLems
Bibbidi (Cunning) - Part of PimoLems
Diggin the Air - Part of PimoLems. Mobius wants it scrapped, Proxima likes it.
Confusing Fractals - Can't turn it into a decent tutorial level
Leap of the Locust - Yeah, very repetitive, and already uses the basher staircase trick. Proxima rating C. Nepster says it's not too repetitive, and actually you don't need the basher staircase trick.
Paragliding to the Pyramid - the level is tricky enough that it's well possible to stumble over significant portions of the solution of Endeavor in this version already.
The Giant Mushroom - nothing strictly bad with it, nothing outstanding though
Walk them golden stairs - Solution is kinda spammy and annoying having to go through the mesh with the given terrain removers. Once You Pop (sequel) is similar except that now you have bombers to work with instead of the other terrain removers, and the lack of other skills except for builders makes it a lot more interesting.
Wrong way - Proxima rating C. I don't think it's that similar to Minimalism (Part 1), still nothing really new here. Nepster says it's better than Minimalism (Part 1). I don't.
Three days of the condor (Cunning) - The only thing really is turning the miner with a blocker here, and it's a huge and ugly level for just showing this trick. Proxima rating A, so I don't know though.
Tower of Babel (Cunning) - Proxima rating C+. Again, pretty unique so I personally find it to be a good one to throw in the mix. The main idea is obvious, but there are a few details to work out. Execution isn't bad actually, especially considering the kind of level this is.
A fearful symmetry (Cunning) - A lot of unrelated stuff for a level that just revolves about one main trick.
Over the Hump (Daunting) - I feel there are a lot of levels with tons of climbers that are similar now
When the Levee breaks (Cunning) - kinda straightforward, mostly about not getting any details wrong.
Laser Deathroom 3 (Vicious) - main idea same as Part 1, just harder setup
Soaring (Cunning) - Proxima rating C+. It's quite unique, but not much of a puzzle and similar to Clam's 'Stall Tactics' there's the weird issue that sometimes they don't go straight up.
The Ring of Fnargl (Vicious) - Unique, but extremely technical, revolves around a precisely timed bomber
Heavenly Skies (Daunting) - This one is pretty tricky, though I personally don't like exercises in estimating how far your builders go. The route I found uses a move that's pretty hard to execute. Needs design overhaul.
Comfort Levels (Daunting) - rename for one.
Cornerstone (Daunting) - With Nepster's route I realize the level is a bit open ended, and there are probably better open-ended levels around (And even the intended route is a little tricky to execute).
Babylon Fading (Cunning) - solid but nothing outstanding about the solution
Play Ball (Daunting) - It's a good level, but the main part is realizing that you have to do synchronization compression. Then it's not so hard, but there are already a few levels that use this, so I wonder if this level is a bit redundant.
Well Ok Then (Cunning) - Proxima rating C+. I don't know something different yet simple, and I quite like it for that. Design could maybe be improved though. Also a bit of a precursor to Chasm.
Snowball Battle: Decent puzzle, not super special but decent. Makes use of the same bland design of the prequel.
A lix on the edge (Cunning) - I don't know what to think about it, it's tricky and interesting, so I guess it's a good thing. Again, I don't see much of a point in the time limit.
A completely ridiculous level -  Like Ramen Masterchef, I think it's nice to have a level or two like this, even if it's kinda weird.
Blocked by a snowball - It's a decent easy level and you have to take care about a few things without risking killing lix. Depends on what else we'll have at the beginning.
Escape the pit - perfectly good if it gets a design overhaul.

Other people would be ok with scrapping:
Proxima: Leap of the Locust, Confusing Fractals, Wrong way, Escape the Pit -- and Diggin' the Air
mobius: when the levee breaks, a lix on the edge!, play ball!, watch ye step (IS's but I remade it and he never made any comments about it), the last laugh, Division of Labor, bibblidi-bobblidi-boo (pieuw), Leap of the Locust

Mod Edit: Restored attachments.

Site Discussion / I'll be away
« on: December 18, 2013, 12:37:18 am »
I'll be away and not checking the Lemmings forum in January and February.

For any requests regarding moderation, please contact Clam Spammer instead during this time.

Level Design / Lemmings games, editors and setting everything up
« on: June 12, 2013, 03:28:51 am »
This topic belongs in Help and this just serves as a crosspost.

Link to actual topic:

Help & Guides / 2013 list of game engines and editors
« on: June 12, 2013, 03:28:11 am »
See also:
How to play old Lemmings on a modern PC
How to play and create custom levels

This topic introduces the various options to play and design custom levels for the various lemmings games.

Lemmings (L1), Oh No More Lemmings (ONML)

To play DMA Design's L1 and ONML levels with the exact DOS Lemmings physics, get Lemmix players, or play the DOS games in DOSBox.

To edit and play levels in the old L1 level format, use Eric's Lemmix editor: See .lvl and .dat: How to play and edit.

Today, most level designers work with NeoLemmix. The second-most popular engine is Lix. We recommend to design levels for these games instead of in the .lvl/.dat format. See: How to play and create custom levels in NeoLemmix and Lix.

Games with physics very similar to DOS Lemmings


This is the engine of Lemmix taken and a lot of the glitches from the original games fixed, and topped up with new features like 8 new skills. All the Lemmix Players are available in NeoLemmix form, as is Flexi, allowing you to make use of these new features in your custom level sets. Comes with NeoLemmixEditor to support all those new features, which also features a playtest mode to test a single level by running CustLemmix/NeoCustLemmix if provided.
Note: Custom levels from the level database might not be solvable in NeoLemmix.
Dedicated subforum:
The Lemmix Players and NeoLemmix Players available on this website run out of the box and allow you to play the original Lemmings 1 games.


Lix is an open-source lemmings clone with networked multiplayer support (up to 8 players), a few new skills, savestates, framestepping, replays, and a focus on customizability and user friendliness. It comes with new graphics and over 500 community-created levels. Lix's level editor a lot easier to use than Lemmix, but it only loads and saves its own format (Lix .txt).

Dedicated subforum:
IRC Channel: #lix on


Lemmini is a lemmings clone that supports custom graphics and music. It has its own level format (.ini) but also supports .dat and .lvl  and comes with the ability to load and save replays.
Note: .dat and .lvl levels that use behaviour specific to Lemmix/CustLemm might not be solvable in Lemmini.


Setup: Obtain WinLemm one way or another, when you first start Lemmini it should ask you for the path where WinLemm is located. It will then compile some data and after a while you're ready to go.
Setting up Lemmix to edit .ini levels: Edit [style_4] in LemmixStyles.ini to have CommonPath point to the Lemmini path, and follow the same procedure described in the Lemmix section.


A version of Lemmini with physics closer to the original Amiga physics, a lot of bugs fixed and some new features. Includes most official levels. Custom level packs/sets made for the original Lemmini might not be solvable in SuperLemmini due to the physics changes.
Dedicated subforum:


Editor only.


Rarely used anymore, but comes with an editor and supports custom graphics, custom music and level descriptions and hints. A batch of excellent levels have been made for this, however the cheapo level format is only supported by Cheapo itself.
Download link and some levels and styles (definitely not all):
Some Cheapo content can be converted to NeoLemmix:

Lemmings 2

Now has a usable level editor courtesy of GuyPerfect. Together with L2STAT turned into L2Suite for more convenience.

L2Suite: While it can be used with PCL2ED, I strongly recommend getting lgl2 as the main level editor. The only advantage of PCL2ED over lgl2 is that it displays the graphics of certain special objects (e.g. Sports steam).
lgl2 download:
lgl2 instructions:

L2 Level topic:

L2 Level editor for Amiga:

Lemmings Chronicles/All New World of Lemmings

Mindless and kieranmillar wrote lem3edit, an editor for Lemmings Chronicles.

Egyptian levels by Clam Spammer (dead link)

Lemmings Revolution

GuyPerfect created a patch to make Lemmings revolution run smoothly in Win7. Also fixes graphics issues in WinXP.


Lemmings 3D

Some research:

Contests / Level design contest #1 - results!
« on: March 13, 2013, 12:08:51 am »
The contest is over, thanks everyone for participating!

If you missed the contest, here is the main topic:

Solutions and statistics are attached to this post. The levelpacks and level archive can be found here:

Though it was a bit of work for me, I enjoyed the contest a lot. I think the levels produced here were really great. I'd like to post the pack with the levels on the levelpack database in a bit, once the remaining backroutes have been fixed (I think Gronkling's, Akseli's and Crane's levels still have backroutes, and I hope I'll get Crane's intended solution soon.)

ccexplore also suggested:
Overall, like you said, there are no bad/trivial/Tame levels, everyone's levels provide a little bit to a lot of challenge in their own way.  It would be worth considering getting as many of the levels into the Lix community pack as the level authors are ok with, as they are all pretty high-quality levels.

I think that's definitely a good idea, if there are no objections.

Anyway, on to the results. First off, who solved how many first and how many final versions, respectively. (A * indicates I didn't receive the corresponding replays, a # indicates that I'm not entirely sure whether I got all levels solved, i.e. I might be missing that some more levels have been solved.)

We have a 5-way tie at the top with players who managed to solve all levels from the first version pack. For the final versions we have the same five players who've manage to solve at least 8 level, but only ccexplore (and geoo, the author) manage to solve the remaining level, 'Stroke at Retirement Age'. Detailled data on who solved what are in the stats spreadsheet.

First versions solved

Final versions solved

Next, prettiest and most fun levels. If you're wondering about the fractions in the following two tables:
ccexplore came up with the wonderful idea to distribute fractional votes (wish I had thought of that myself, would have made things a lot easier. Turns out they also serve as tie breaker now, breaking a tie by 0.01 point. :P) Crane also told me which levels he'd have put his other votes on (that I received a bit too late), which is reflected by the (+1) (one of them indicating the alleviated -1 penalty).
But now, without further ado, best looking and most fun rankings (individual votes again in the spreadsheet):

Best looking
Stroke at Retirement Agegeoo11.99
Evacuating a Retirement HomeClam10.93 (+1)
The Isle of SkyeGronkling10.11 (+1)
Prize CatchCrane9.24 (+1)
A sea of purest greenPooty6.11
Tres Hombresmöbius5
Feel the PressureAkseli1.62
The "Hole in the Head" GangSteve0
Brute FoursProxima0

Quote from: Steve
3: geoo (this is better than any of the dirt levels in Lemmoings or ONML iirc, well done)
1: Crane (Like the theme, wish the solution were as cohesive)
1: Gronkling (again, a nice looking level in a style I never use, good work)
1: Clam (if only for the design idea)

Quote from: Clam
3 votes: Prize Catch. Exquisite and imposing.
2 votes: The Isle of Skye. This deserves points for tileset choice alone, but also really excellently done.
1 vote: A sea of purest green. Cool boat, and the dock really completes it.

Gronkling almost went with 3 votes for 'The Hole in the Head Gang' here.
For me, having one last vote available, it was a toss-up between Pooty, Akseli and Steve. I really love the dock in Pooty's level at the right, and the thematic design really stands out, just the ship looks a bit messy (which is I guess why it ended up scoring lower than I expected in the end). I like Akseli's design for its simple elegance. And Steve's design, at least the last version, is pretty unique. I ended up giving a vote to both Akseli and Pooty, at the cost of one vote for Gronkling (so only 1 vote instead of 2), which is a really nice level with beautiful details, unlike most dirt levels in L1 that just look slapped together. 2 points from me go to Clam's thematic design, nice idea and cleanly realized.

Most fun
Feel the PressureAkseli10.67
Evacuating a Retirement HomeClam10.66
A sea of purest greenPooty7.71
Prize CatchCrane6.57
The "Hole in the Head" GangSteve4.78
Tres Hombresmöbius4.48
Stroke at Retirement Agegeoo3.66
The Isle of SkyeGronkling2.9
Brute FoursProxima1.57

Quote from: Steve
2: Akseli (any level I can spend this long on without actually getting to work is a winner for me)
2: geoo (any level that's intended route stumps everyone  :P)
1: mobius (It's easy but not terribly so and there's a couple ways to do it, I kind of like the idea really)
1: Clam (I have to assume all that stuff isn't just there for background. I think, anyways)

Quote from: Clam
3 votes: Feel the Pressure. Really simple design, but so many things to try, and surprisingly difficult.
2 votes: A sea of purest green. This wins my prize for Best Red Herring. Simon can draw that one up :)
1 vote: Stroke at Retirement Age. Lots of things to do, and (clearly!) not many that lead to actually solving the level.

Quote from: Akseli
Voting is much harder than I initially thought, because I find the levels very equally enjoyable and pretty-looking. Originally I wanted to give votes for the three best levels like 1, 2 and 3 points, but that was too hard. I also thought of giving one point for six levels in both categories due to many good levels, but perhaps that would have been a boring choice. I decided to compromise with my votes.
I concur, I pretty much enjoyed all of the levels as well. I ended up distributing 1 vote to 6 levels each, but order-wise among these I guess things would be Steve >= Akseli > Clam >= Crane > Pooty > Proxima

On a short notice, I asked players to rank the levels by difficulty. 6 players gave me a ranking (I excluded the level by the respective author from the ranking). I assigned 1 to the easiest, 2 to the next easiest, and so on, and took the average.) Here are the results:

levelauthoraverage rank
Stroke at Retirement Agegeoo8.2
The "Hole in the Head" GangSteve6.67
The Isle of SkyeGronkling6.2
A sea of purest greenPooty5.17
Feel the PressureAkseli4.2
Evacuating a Retirement HomeClam4.2
Brute FoursProxima3.5
Prize CatchCrane1.83
Tres Hombresmöbius1.6
Some people ranked their own levels:
möbius considered his level the easiest, Akseli considered his the third easiest ('Tres Hombres' Taxing, 'Prize Catch' and 'Feel the Pressure' Mayhem, and everything else above Mayhem).
Quote from: ccexplore
Pooty's was also interesting, I think he manages to hide the intended solution very well by making it seem like there are a lot of other more straightforward alternatives to try first (ignoring some of the backroutes that needed to be eliminated, though even then it only got to v3).

Special Prizes (names and ideas courtesy of Steve, picture courtesy of Simon):

Brickout Memorial Trophy: Gronkling - The Isle of Skye (8 versions + known backroute by Akseli)

"haha, this won't be so hard at all! ... wait, nothing I try is working WHY?!" award: Akseli - Feel the Pressure
Quote from: ccexplore
I concur with Steve how surprising Akseli's level was, it looked so deceptively simple but not that easy to actually get a working solution.

Finally, the list of backroute finders:
geoo22Gronkling v1, Gronkling v2, Gronkling v3, Gronkling v4, Crane v1, Crane v2, Crane v3, Crane v4, Crane v5, Crane v6, Crane v7, Akseli v1, Steve v1, Steve v2, Steve v3, Clam v1, Clam v2, Pooty v1, Pooty v2, möbius v1, möbius v2, möbius v3
Akseli18Gronkling v1, Gronkling v8, Crane v1, Crane v2, Crane v3, Crane v4, Crane v5, Crane v6, Crane v7, geoo v1, Steve v1, Steve v2, Steve v3, Steve v4, Pooty v1, Pooty v2, möbius v1, möbius v2
Gronkling13Crane v1, Crane v7, geoo v1, Akseli v1, Akseli v2, Steve v1, Clam v1, Clam v2, Clam v3, Clam v4, Pooty v1, möbius v1, Proxima v1
ccexplore12Gronkling v1, Gronkling v6, Gronkling v7, Crane v1, Crane v7 (confirm), geoo v1, Steve v1, Steve v2, Steve v4, Pooty v1, möbius v1, Proxima v1
Clam9Gronkling v1, Gronkling v7, Crane v1, Crane v7, geoo v1, Akseli v1, Akseli v2, Steve v1, Pooty v1
Pooty7Gronkling v1, Crane v1, Crane v4, Crane v7, Akseli v1, Steve v1, möbius v3
Proxima6Gronkling v1, Crane v1, Steve v1, Pooty v1, möbius v1, möbius v2
Crane5Gronkling v1, Gronkling v2, Gronkling v3, Steve v1, möbius v1
Steve5Crane v1, Clam v1, Pooty v1, möbius v1, möbius v3
lyygak2Pooty v1, Pooty v2
Luis1Akseli v2

Discuss the levels, results, things you liked and things that could have been done better, and things that should be done differently in future contests, below!

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