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Offline geoo

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Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« on: May 31, 2014, 02:34:06 am »
This is an incomplete alpha version of the Lix Community pack. We're getting close! Thanks everyone for contributing so far, and keep it up so we will finish soon!

The last 4 ratings (Cunning, Daunting, Vicious, Hopeless) are ordered. Please comment on any level that you think is in a place it doesn't belong. I adapted my ratings to take Nepster's comments into account, and then determined a positon based on my and Proxima's ratings. I also went for diversity, i.e. don't put similar levels too close together. The last few levels of a rating might be harder than the first few of the next rating.
I gave NaOH the task to come up with an ordering for the first 40 levels, possibly with adjustments to some levels to smoothen the difficulty curve.
Once that is done (maybe after some discussion), I'll compile a version where all levels are sorted into their ratings (probably still with excess levels).
Please also comment on any other issue there might be. There might be inconsistencies in capitalization of the level titles or author names, please point them out and suggest a fix.

A few levels need the new terrain updates:
Latest version of the level bundle (.zip):
Level list (html):
Level list (xls spreadsheet):
Date of last update for each level:
If you want all the levels viewable in lix in alphabetical order, just copy all the levels from the rating folders into the main folder.

This is a bit rushed, but I won't be home for the next three weeks and won't have much time to work on this. Please don't feel discourage from posting in the thread by my likely low activity for the next three weeks in this thread.

Right now there are 17 excess levels, meaning we have more than 40 per rating.
Below I compiled a list of levels that I consider in potential danger of being scrapped.
You're encouraged to compile your own list of levels you wouldn't mind seeing gone.

Some levels are not final. You can still update your levels, in fact some levels still need work. See below.
There's definitely no shortage of levels, so in order to add a level after this alpha has been released, please put with your levels a suggestion or a few suggestions (preferrably not in the top 12 of my list) of which level your new level should replace (not in the same position, they can end up in different ratings, it's just that one level goes and another level comes in).

You're encouraged to add hints to your levels that a player can iteratively view when stuck in a level! Most levels don't have hints yet, I only have a list of hints from Proxima so far. While not a must, please consider adding hints to your levels! Send them to me, preferred format: Take this spread sheet from and in the 4 tiny columns at the end there's space for 4 hints (if you need more, just continue in the next columns). At the end I will write a script to add the hints into the levels.

Please refer to levels with their name, not their rating as the latter might still change.

Some special ordering ponderings:
Switch Chasm (Vicious 40) and MERDEMERDE...(Early Hopeless)? - Chasm looks completely impossible, and it extremely hard to execute, that's why I thought it might fit Vicious 40, the most vicious of all levels. MERDE... is definitely easier, maybe a good breather in Hopeless. Another alternative for Vicious 40 might be Metal City Mayhem.
Which level last: The News Struck at Ten (formerly Stroke at Retirement Age), You Only Get One Bash at It, Brickout - It seems the Brickout will be a simplified version, and YOGOBAI has my easier alternative solution, so I went with TNSAT for now.
First level of Cunning: LIX, The Razor's Edge, Merge Sort - which one?

LIX: Add 1 minute challenge (already added in spreadsheet, please say if objecting)
Too Far to walk: 0:55 left on the clock challenge (already added in spreadsheet, please say if objecting)
You only get one bash at it: Have to add hints (Don't want to read them)
Put your lix on ice: Hints says to turn a lix in a miner tunnel (I guess), but you can just turn on steel.
Labyrinth of despair: Add hint re. 100% challenge

Levels that need a design overhaul in order to stay:
All over the place
Heavenly skies
Escape the Pit

Levels that could do with improved design:
The Giant Mushroom
Three Days of the Condor
The Lix Who Japed
Well OK Then
Nepster's complaints:
Babylon Fading
It's a long way up
Digging the Air (layout is good, but it doesn't fill one screen)
To Destroy is to Construct
Division of Labor.

Levels that are still WIP:

Levels with known backroutes (backroutes attached):
betchacantsave.txt (can save 2, though I wonder if the level is open-ended so there are no real backroutes?)

Suggested changes:
Lixology: replace with Breackout (attached), maybe with prettier water at the bottom once available
Dances with Lixes: Enforce trickier sol? (alternative version attached). Rationale: There are two quite different solution approaches. One of them is already used in 100% Built by Lixes and Ascending and Descending, while the other one is, I believe, novel. I attached a version with buzzsaws enforcing the second approach, I wonder whether I should include this version instead, as the ideas from the first approach are already featured in two other levels. (Spoiler: Approach one is building a bridge from the left, but not completely to the steel at the right, and have another lix build a bridge from the top of the steel to the left, thus falling onto the lower bridge. Approach 2 instead builds a bridge from left to right all the way to the steel, and then uses a bomber to simultaneously bomb through the bridge and make a dent in the block at the left that makes climbers turn around.)
It Takes Time to Build...: Cut down to 3 bashers/diggers?
Snowball Battle: Remove walker and increase spawn interval?
Just Stop the Bleeding: Still needs Steve's 'hole in the head gang' treatment

Below is a list of levels that are in danger of being scrapped, in order of magnitude of the threat that is exerted by me.
Other players are welcome to compile similar lists. Right now I think it's a good idea (once we have a first rating arranged) to compile an alpha with all 257 levels sorted, and have Akseli give this version with too many levels a playthrough and wait for comments, if Akseli is ok with that.
We need to scrap 17 in total:

Systematic Separation (Hopeless) - could go into RubiX' Epic Adventure
Low Profile (Vicious) - could go into RubiX' Epic Adventure
Tick Toxic (Daunting) - could go into RubiX' Epic Adventure
lixesinarms (Vicious) - part of MaZuLems
Bibbidi (Cunning) - Part of PimoLems
Diggin the Air - Part of PimoLems. Mobius wants it scrapped, Proxima likes it.
Confusing Fractals - Can't turn it into a decent tutorial level
Leap of the Locust - Yeah, very repetitive, and already uses the basher staircase trick. Proxima rating C. Nepster says it's not too repetitive, and actually you don't need the basher staircase trick.
Paragliding to the Pyramid - the level is tricky enough that it's well possible to stumble over significant portions of the solution of Endeavor in this version already.
The Giant Mushroom - nothing strictly bad with it, nothing outstanding though
Walk them golden stairs - Solution is kinda spammy and annoying having to go through the mesh with the given terrain removers. Once You Pop (sequel) is similar except that now you have bombers to work with instead of the other terrain removers, and the lack of other skills except for builders makes it a lot more interesting.
Wrong way - Proxima rating C. I don't think it's that similar to Minimalism (Part 1), still nothing really new here. Nepster says it's better than Minimalism (Part 1). I don't.
Three days of the condor (Cunning) - The only thing really is turning the miner with a blocker here, and it's a huge and ugly level for just showing this trick. Proxima rating A, so I don't know though.
Tower of Babel (Cunning) - Proxima rating C+. Again, pretty unique so I personally find it to be a good one to throw in the mix. The main idea is obvious, but there are a few details to work out. Execution isn't bad actually, especially considering the kind of level this is.
A fearful symmetry (Cunning) - A lot of unrelated stuff for a level that just revolves about one main trick.
Over the Hump (Daunting) - I feel there are a lot of levels with tons of climbers that are similar now
When the Levee breaks (Cunning) - kinda straightforward, mostly about not getting any details wrong.
Laser Deathroom 3 (Vicious) - main idea same as Part 1, just harder setup
Soaring (Cunning) - Proxima rating C+. It's quite unique, but not much of a puzzle and similar to Clam's 'Stall Tactics' there's the weird issue that sometimes they don't go straight up.
The Ring of Fnargl (Vicious) - Unique, but extremely technical, revolves around a precisely timed bomber
Heavenly Skies (Daunting) - This one is pretty tricky, though I personally don't like exercises in estimating how far your builders go. The route I found uses a move that's pretty hard to execute. Needs design overhaul.
Comfort Levels (Daunting) - rename for one.
Cornerstone (Daunting) - With Nepster's route I realize the level is a bit open ended, and there are probably better open-ended levels around (And even the intended route is a little tricky to execute).
Babylon Fading (Cunning) - solid but nothing outstanding about the solution
Play Ball (Daunting) - It's a good level, but the main part is realizing that you have to do synchronization compression. Then it's not so hard, but there are already a few levels that use this, so I wonder if this level is a bit redundant.
Well Ok Then (Cunning) - Proxima rating C+. I don't know something different yet simple, and I quite like it for that. Design could maybe be improved though. Also a bit of a precursor to Chasm.
Snowball Battle: Decent puzzle, not super special but decent. Makes use of the same bland design of the prequel.
A lix on the edge (Cunning) - I don't know what to think about it, it's tricky and interesting, so I guess it's a good thing. Again, I don't see much of a point in the time limit.
A completely ridiculous level -  Like Ramen Masterchef, I think it's nice to have a level or two like this, even if it's kinda weird.
Blocked by a snowball - It's a decent easy level and you have to take care about a few things without risking killing lix. Depends on what else we'll have at the beginning.
Escape the pit - perfectly good if it gets a design overhaul.

Other people would be ok with scrapping:
Proxima: Leap of the Locust, Confusing Fractals, Wrong way, Escape the Pit -- and Diggin' the Air
mobius: when the levee breaks, a lix on the edge!, play ball!, watch ye step (IS's but I remade it and he never made any comments about it), the last laugh, Division of Labor, bibblidi-bobblidi-boo (pieuw), Leap of the Locust

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« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 07:19:32 pm by Prob Lem »

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2014, 02:00:38 pm »
Many thanks for all the hard work  :)

I'll have a proper look over the ordering and write a proper reply as soon as I have time -- there are just a few things I want to say quickly.

Naturally I favour "You only get one bash at it" as the last level  8)  I don't actually think your solution is easier -- you just happened to find it and not find my solution yet.

First level of Cunning -- I'm going to make a different suggestion, Prelude. Partly because it's appropriate for a level called Prelude to come first  :P

Backroutes -- "Buridan" is annoying but there is no way to fix this. I hope the level's replay value (possibility of reaching either exit, 100% solution) allows it to stay nonetheless. "Lix Cannon" is easy to fix the attached backroute but it has others, all arising from changes to the original level due to having to remove the digger so the one-way substitute would work. I'll give this level a makeover as soon as I have time. "Betcha can't save", nice work saving 2 in the third exit, I already knew it was possible in the first exit. I'll check whether this works in the Lemmix original. I feel that all these solutions are harder than the intended solution and therefore not backroutes. Similarly, while it's not my level so I can't really judge, your "" route is conceptually much more complex than the intended solution (and follows the same general path) so I don't think it can be called a backroute.

Given that we still have to scrap 17 levels, or slightly more if I want to add one or two (and I do), you can add these to my list of ones I'm okay with scrapping: The Giant Mushroom,  Tower of Babel, A fearful symmetry, Soaring. I'll look through and decide on others  :)

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2014, 05:54:12 pm »
Here is "Go West" without the forbidden palm tree.

As we discussed on IRC, "Death or Glory" should have a fixed S.I. of 50.

"Dances with Lixes" -- haven't looked at the proposed alteration yet, but in general, placing buzzsaws to remove alternative solutions is an ugly hack, and in my opinion should only be done when the removed solution is trivial enough to spoil the level, which definitely isn't the case here.

"Snowball Battle" -- would rather you don't change.

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2014, 10:41:18 pm »
geoo's 2/4 on "Betcha can't save" and Nepster's 39/40 on "Brute Fours" both confirmed on the Lemmix originals, so I'm inclined to leave them.

Offline Nepster

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Re: Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2014, 09:54:16 pm »
"Dances with Lixes": Another (easier) solution not mentioned in geoo's post, which should be hard to remove as it allows for many variations and doesn't use all skills.
"News Struck at Ten": If my solution is intended, then this level is way easier than rated.

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2014, 12:45:02 am »
(Hopefully) fixed versions of "Buridan's Lix" and "Lix Cannon".

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Offline mobius

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Re: Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2014, 01:27:46 am »
so should all discussion now go in this thread?

first of all--to all the new levels I added. I'm ok if we choose to just forget them because they could always go in the next big levelpack. (hint, hint...)

I a fix to Picard Maneuver. Remember I want to enforce ISteve's solution which is
use the upstroke of a miner to break through bottom of basher tunnel.
as far as other people's levels I'd like scrapped. I can't really mention anything in particular but I'm personally not a fan of anything that involves an awful lot of precision or really obscure behavoir. [Like Stroke at Retirment Age but I have not looked at News Struck at Ten yet so idk about that one.] Top Gear, but this could be modified to be different but still difficult. I doubt anybody agrees with these choices, that's why I haven't said this yet. But then there's a ton of incredibly difficult levels in this pack, a few of which are my own.

I still have to go back and take a look of some levels of mine-- which I've recently found new backroutes too.

on the comments in this thread:

Escape the Pit -- I don't know what you want me to do with it to make it look nicer.
Three Days of the Condor -- I still don't feel like doing anything with this, if there's another level with miner turning scrap it. I don't know how to improve the design anyway.
Roundabout -- again, Idk how I could improve the design much, I did a little work anyway.
Babylon Fading -- don't know how to improve design. I don't see how these levels are any less pretty than other people's.
It's a long way up -- I really hope this one can stay--I really liked this one. I think the design looks fine.
betchacantsave -- ask InsaneSteve... I personally would say leave as is. The original had backroutes as well. I really like this one.
It Takes Time to Build -- your suggestion is as good as mine. This one had many backroute problems.
I'm ok with replacing A Fearful symmetry [with the new one I uploaded in the old thread] or just forgetting both of these.

others that I nominate to remove (just re-mentioning levels) [wait, some are new
It's all uphill from here,
Biblidi Boblidi,
Diggin' the air --I find this one really annoying to execute. To be honest I don't know why I made it in the first place...
Leap of the Locust
Wrong way
Three Days of the Condor
a lix on the edge
play ball!
critical procedures [the repeat, Picard Maneuver is much more original, if I can remove all the backroutes ]
Fear of Heights
Escape the Pit
That Peksy Gap [I completely redid this one in Lemmini but it's similar to geoo's Merge and Sort.
Slippery Pete
Snake--- I just don't like the look of this one all that much
downpour--- I find it really tedious/difficult to execute. Maybe it could be changed because I do like the idea.
Tribute to Flagpole Sitting -- kind of similar to other minalsm style levels
Tocatta -- it's a lot of cool design but I'm just not a fan of that design style. I find it a little flashy.
there are more but I can't do anymore now.

one's I'm opposed to removing. [I'd like to keep these!]
tower of babel--I made an alternate terrain design that you might like better?
Over the hump--I really liked geoo's alternate solution and hope this one stays.

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« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 07:22:56 pm by Prob Lem »
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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2014, 02:25:06 am »
If we ever do get to the point where there are still too many levels, I'm happy to make things easier by stating no hard feelings over removal of any of my levels.  Obviously it'd be nice if some were included, but with such a large set, and level designing not really my strongest forte to date, I have to think there are probably plenty enough of other strong levels in the set such that none of mine would be really missed.

Offline mobius

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Re: Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2014, 02:55:25 pm »
If we ever do get to the point where there are still too many levels, I'm happy to make things easier by stating no hard feelings over removal of any of my levels.  Obviously it'd be nice if some were included, but with such a large set, and level designing not really my strongest forte to date, I have to think there are probably plenty enough of other strong levels in the set such that none of mine would be really missed.

don't get me wrong--I really liked your levels, especially 100% built by Lix. And like Proxima mentioned I also would like to see everyone that contributed get at least one of their levels in. It's just that the game can reach a certain level of difficulty that, for me personally, it becomes not fun anymore.
I also really liked the idea behind Brickout, but if it can be made as you've said recently (I haven't followed that totally) simpler, so that it only uses 1 or a few tricks that would be better imo.

This is my reasoning behind me changing Eye of the needle, while it may be a good level to some I personally would prefer simplifying these ideas either into the two levels or just one. But I don't really mind either way. I just couldn't think of anything else better to mention in way of eliminating levels. They're all decent  :thumbsup:
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Offline geoo

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Re: Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2014, 09:12:56 pm »
Thanks everyone for their feedback so far!

While I still believe that going for 6 ratings in total is good for the overall level quality, I don't think it is good for my sanity. There are a lot of good levels, and the view of which are the least good is so very subjective that it's hard for me to make definite decisions.
I added (way too late, I realize now) a poll on the total number of levels, whose results I might or might not ignore (well I won't ignore them, but I can't guarantee an impact of them on what will happen in the end, though if they are very lop-sided I will be inclined to reconsider), but either way it will give me feedback on a decision that felt right when I made it back then. Note that the reason I won't exceed 40 levels per rating is that 20 levels are being displayed per page. Though again, to have 7 ratings we need one more to put between Quirky and Cunning or Cunning and Dauting (at least that's where I think it'd fit best). Here is some past discussion on the issue:
I went with the decision for 6 ratings as I thought scrapping a few levels would ensure quality and 7 ratings would make the size of this pack look too daunting, but for the latter, the difference between 240 and 280 is something that for some arbitrary reason my mind might make me consider as bigger than it is. If somehow we do end up with 7 ratings, that does not mean I want a flood of new levels. You will have a greater chance to get those last few in that you wanted to design/remake because you think they are really excellent, but haven't had the chance to, but preferably not just anything new that you just came up with. It also doesn't mean that all the scrapped levels will come back, or that nothing else will get scrapped, just less will get scrapped than currently planned. Looking at the levels that are left for the first two ratings, I also wonder if the difficulty curve isn't a bit steep, and a few more could be inserted (though that should be decided once a preliminary ordering is done, either way). Then again, we shouldn't bore the player...
Oh and yes, I do follow the policy that everyone who desires so should be allowed at least one level in the pack.

As for scrapping levels due to visuals, I realize that my personal view of aesthetics is very subjective and I shouldn't impose it on everything. While e.g. I find Three Days of the Condor ugly, that's not everyone's view. (Though nevertheless I feel that Escape the pit could looks a bit less like...well, a bunch of random floating blocks, which is generally considered a bit ugly I thought?)

to mobius: As for levels being too hard, I don't think everyone has (or should) try to go and solve all levels. If you just want to play moderately difficult levels for your own enjoyment, just skip Hopeless (and maybe Vicious). I think the pack should offer a good batch of levels to play (and I think moderate difficult right now is where the density is the highest, between Cunning, Daunting and maybe even Vicious there the difficulty difference is not very big, and it was hard for me to classify the levels), which also means it should offer some levels to hardcore players. It's ok if someone loses interest once they reach Hopeless, it's not everyone's cake, and they should have had enough enjoyment playing through the previous levels.

[End of the ramblings of a madman for this post at least.]

I should (but probably won't) leave this topic behind for a few days (as I'm on a vacation anyway for a good two more weeks), just three level specific things:

to Nepster:
The News Struck at Ten: I uploaded a backroute fix that makes one detail closer to what it was in the original level (and made the climber bit impossible). Also will rename to 'Striking News at Ten'.
to Proxima:
Snowball battle: Just so we're on the same page, you use the walker to turn one lix around that is walking out of the digger pit it she walks back in? (Dunno, that seemed like a pointless reaction move to me...then again, you'll probably want to pause at that point anyway.)
You only get one bash: Just so I haven't wasted hours on trying something impossible, your intended solution does bash from right to left, correct? (Because I assumed it didn't and thus didn't look for solutions bashing from left to right, as these would have to be similar to my backroute.)

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2014, 11:24:53 pm »
Good idea to have the poll. I'll have another look through the levels before voting, and also give my opinions on which ones could be scrapped in more detail.

If we end up with seven categories, my suggestion for an extra rating would be "Nasty" (between Daunting and Vicious).

Snowball Battle -- the idea was that you have choices for how to contain all the lix (except one) in the dig pit, leading to different solutions depending on which skills you have left. (Indeed, the first solution you sent me doesn't use a walker there.) However, I've now found a solution that may be a bit too straightforward, so your suggestion of cutting the walker would be one way to cut down the possibilities and make the level harder. I'm okay with it going either way.

"You only get one bash at it" --
This level was inspired by mobius' "Exit, stage right", where he originally used a steel substitute for one-way wall, and because of the specifics of that level, I showed how he could do it without steel, by ensuring that only bashing from the right would be successful. That gave me the idea for "You only get one bash at it", a level where a similar situation is present as a red herring, so it looks as if you are meant to bash right-to-left, but (hopefully) no such route is actually possible.

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2014, 01:49:47 am »
A very difficult decision. I do still have three more levels I want to contribute, which would bring us to 260 exactly; on the other hand, I agree there are still some less interesting levels currently in the set that could be removed, and some of those we seem to have consensus on. Perhaps we should just do it in stages -- another round of scrapping, then see where that leaves us  :P

So, these are the ones I'd be okay with removing, and I'll give my reasons -- hope I don't offend anyone. This is difficult to discuss. My list doesn't include many of my own levels, but on the other hand, in the last round I did agree to a whole batch of mine being removed.

These are (mostly) just levels I wouldn't complain if they were removed; I'd be happy to keep them if it weren't that we have to reduce the numbers. I'll go in order as they appear in the current levelset -- i.e. unsorted levels first, then Cunning, Daunting, Vicious, Hopeless.

Climb to Freedom! -- this is really easy, you have to assign a lot of climbers, and there are unused builders for some reason.
Confusing Fractals -- not interesting. NaOH and I were discussing turning this into a multiplayer level so the design work isn't wasted.
Diggin' the Air -- contained in PimoLems, and a bit tedious to execute correctly. On the plus side, mobius' conversion looks really good.
Downpour -- an execution challenge, which I found to be not too bad, but less fun than puzzle levels. Extremely annoying to optimise number saved. I don't dislike it as such; I just wouldn't miss it if it were gone.
Escape the Pit -- really easy, but its skill numbers and save requirement prevent it being used as an early level. NaOH and I have discussed changing it to 10-of-each and placing it earlier, in which case I'd be much happier with keeping it.
It's All Uphill from Here -- contained in PimoLems, and not a very attractive level. (Just to clarify, since you discussed this in the other topic, mobius' only design change on this level was removing the hidden water objects.)
Leap of the Locust -- tedious jumper assignment, WAFD-ish
Let's block and blow? -- plain appearance, and as I've said, I'm not very fond of levels that hand-hold the player through discovering tricks. On the plus side, it's a decent puzzle level, so I don't have strong feelings about this one.
Paragliding to the Pyramid -- geoo has a point, it's perhaps not necessary to keep both versions of this, and removing a repeat is less painful than removing a unique level. I think it is a decent easier puzzle, though.
Snake -- as geoo said, rather bland, one of the less interesting 20-of-everything levels, has a repeat so the design wouldn't be wasted.
The Giant Mushroom -- looks really ugly, solution is nothing terribly special either
Wrong Way -- very easy, concept is used in other levels, design is nothing special

Soaring -- I don't like levels like this.
Three Days of the Condor, When the Levee Breaks, Castles in the Sky -- Cunning has three levels too many and these are the least interesting. My "A" rating for Condor was based more on appearance than solution, but it's quite fun to play. Then again, so are all our levels!

This is a stickup, A Soulful Bounding Leap!, I'm Gonna Make You Mine, Play Ball -- Daunting has four too many, and it's even harder to find any candidates. If I had to remove any Daunting levels, these would be the ones.

Laser Deathroom 3 -- I can't remember the solutions to the Laser Deathrooms, but I agree that perhaps we don't need all three.
The Ring of Fnargl -- somewhat strange level, solution doesn't feel elegant and needs precision
Bulldozer -- again, just not my type of level

I wouldn't suggest scrapping any Hopeless levels -- the set is really solid. To get it down to 40, I would suggest moving Finale to an earlier set as I don't think it's really hard enough for Hopeless (though as it's my level, it's hard to judge).

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2014, 04:36:26 am »
Okay, got me curious on "You Only Get One Bash At It" (though I wish I hadn't read the spoiler text, oh well).  I've PM a solution over to Proxima.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2014, 08:14:30 am »
Not sure if I should move to this thread or stay on the original thread, but here's some development on my levels.

For Won't Get Fooled Again I'm actually thinking geoo's solution in v6 is better suited for the community, and it's easy enough to actually kick out my own intended solution for community purposes.  But that still leaves Nepster's solution, which I think might be problematic because it has a spare skill left over, which makes me think it may even be doable without using the obscure trick seen in his replay.

And so in the spirit of Brickout, here's Won't Get Fooled Again v7 v8, where I believe (but as usual not sure) the tweaks will eliminate both geoo's and Nepster's solutions.  [edit: v7 rescinded because I confirmed it just makes a more difficult to execute geoo solution (and there were no downloads yet).  While I can bump up the save requirement again to handle that, I decide to be nice (so to speak) and go with a different change instead.] I believe slightly different tweaks can also result in a version that works for geoo's solution but not Nepster's.  Then again this v7 v8 may enable new solutions as well, I guess we'll see.   No time limit is given in the interest of determining whether one is really necessary, but again, the intended solution needs no more than 3 minutes (with much margin to spare).


And as for Brickout, the "E" version intended for community set is going to have to be the final one.  There is really no way to enforce the specifics of my solution over geoo's, because basically geoo's method uses a proper subset of skills in pretty much the same places as my method.  This leaves few options.  And I don't think there's any compelling reason to favor one method over the other anyhow, both are worthy.  (geoo's may be considered slightly more technical but that's really nitpicking, especially from someone like me.)  I'll leave it to him whether to tweak the level to actually make my method impossible (given that his can save one more than required).  At least I have my revenge (so to speak) with version B10 which appears to be successfully enforcing the full original intended solution thus far.


As for "100%-built-by-lixes.txt" and "Top Gear", I'd like to wait until the elimination decisions have been sorted out before working on prettifying them or whatever it is that needs to be done with those.

Mod Edit: Restored attachments.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 07:24:51 pm by Prob Lem »

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lix Community Level Set - incomplete alpha
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2014, 04:10:45 pm »
Okay, got me curious on "You Only Get One Bash At It" (though I wish I hadn't read the spoiler text, oh well).  I've PM a solution over to Proxima.

Close. But your replay made me realise an unfortunate oversight in the level design that really ought to be fixed. I can't find a good way to fix it without uglifying the design -- but here's a tentative v.2 with the least intrusive change, a couple of small steel blocks.

EDIT: ccexplore has sent me a solution to v.2 that is exactly the intended solution. Congratulations!   :thumbsup: