Interesting...I might have to suggest this to my board gaming group. (there is a copy of 5 Crowns there too)

Quote from: Simon on April 27, 2025, 10:33:27 PMBashers in particular have a visual/positional oddity: Their location (invisible, the game tracks it internally) lags behind their visible sprite. During his swing, the basher looks more forward than he really is. (To see this, assign exploder to a basher; the countdown will lag behind.) Assuming your basher faces left, it's another reason to click further right of where the basher appears to be.

I wonder if this sort of thing is the cause of other left-facing oddities...like the builder/stacker offset, the bazooka's increased tunnelling range (when fired right in front of the wall) and the difficulty of mining under blockers.
(not the planter differences though, as that's caused by the plant being non-symmetrical)

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 30, 2025, 08:11:08 PMIn any case, L2 is still worth checking out IMO. I did miss framestepping and rewinding while playing L2, but there hasn't been word from RavenNine regarding the L2Player for a while, and it currently seems far from complete. So, I had to play through the game on Dosbox.

There is a version with savestates, the link to it is here. (I recommend it for playing both mine and Kieran's pack)

QuoteEventually, I would like to play through both kieran millars' and Ste Woz Ere's L2 packs (link for latter's here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5664.0), but this likely won't be for a while. Am I prepared for them as a result of playing through the L2 base game after so long?

The difficulty change is big...the original was more about showing off the skills, as such there were not many "hard" levels like in L1. Most of the difficulty came from execution, the only one that sticks out puzzle-wise is Sports 10. (also tricky execution, but reliable once you've learned how to use the archer like that)

Both custom packs are what I would call "hardcore Lemmings 2" (for the difficulty) and "Lemmings 2 how it should've been" (for the theming). There are a LOT of skill combos and interactions that you don't see in the original game - Kieran's pack has lots of clever puzzles, and inspired me to do the same a few years later.  (there is soo much puzzle potential that was never explored in the original)
Execution is easier most of the time though, as the puzzle was the main focus in both packs.

QuoteAlso, what is the maximum amount of pixels before a wall in L2 turns Lemmings around?

I believe it's 4 pixels, probably the biggest difference you'll notice when playing the Classic levels. (along with the builder offset when facing left)

QuoteI'm not sure if I'll like L3 very much in the end, but I guess I'll see once I get into it!

You'll definitely need the DOSBox with savestates for L3 (both the original and Kieran's pack), as the controls are so awkward due to the engine. An interesting take on the Lemmings format though.

Quote from: WillLem on November 19, 2024, 03:56:36 PMMulti-hatchers are one of my favourite types of level! Most of the ones I've played/designed tend to fit into one of two styles; "each for themselves" levels where the goal is to guide each lemming/group separately (either towards the same exit or perhaps a few different ones), and "herding cats" levels where the crowds need to be gathered together. Either type of level can feature path crossovers or one group doing something to help another group, or can keep each path entirely separate (or a mix of the two).

Yeah, with 12 of these levels to make I did use a variety of styles and level sizes - the long/flat ones are a journey from end-to-end, the tall/thin ones have a circular flow (at least in parts) and the other ones tended to be a series of branches that congregate in the middle or to one side.

The link to the level pack is in my sig 

We've got levels with more than 100 lemmings (the standard max), but what about levels with more than 4 trapdoors? (the standard max)

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I experimented with the idea myself, as the last level in each tribe of my Lemmings 2 pack has 10 trapdoors...the idea being about rescuing many small pockets of lemmings instead of a big crowd going from A to B.

Pros include: a different approach to solving, many clever ways to rescue each group (made easier with the extra skills of L2, but I'm pleased with how the Classic one turned out too) and the logistical challenge and the flow of the level can be quite fascinating.

Cons include: much longer levels with more complexity, more skills required, more moving parts (to go wrong), and player aids are pretty much required.

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Has anyone else tried something like this? How did it turn out?

Hmm, I'm actually in Huddersfield on the Friday night...so I could pop up to Leeds on Saturday and join in again.
I will however be rolling in between 7-8am with no sleep (having been up all night playing laser tag at an annual event) so I will probably look like a lemming
(even after the mandatory breakfast at spoons)

Quote from: Flopsy on October 12, 2024, 02:36:35 AMWe've all met up before anyway so we should know who is who this time. Not like last time where everyone was looking for my Lemming plush 

Might be worth showcasing it again, just in case

I believe it only affects the first level in Sports, though, which is the starter level.

(probably caused by the 4 different steam vents in the left-side display section...the other levels have no more than 2)

Amiga version for me, at my cousin's house in 1991 followed later by my friend's house (where many a competitive 2-player game went on). But in both cases it was the budget version - I didn't even know about the Beast levels etc. until I got hold of the DOS version a few years later. (and despite the music, I was disappointed...as they were all pushovers compared to the budget replacement levels). Also had the Speccy version, which did have it's upsides. (the lock-on to a lemming feature and hard mode versions of some Fun/Tricky levels that weren't in the Amiga version)

That was one reason I was happy when I found this forum, as I was able to bring back the budget levels and play them again in their proper slots.

Quote from: ∫tan x dx on March 15, 2024, 02:37:59 PM

Quote from: WillLem on March 15, 2024, 09:25:12 AM
Is there an online Worms multiplayer anywhere? I've always thought it'd make an excellent online game, just realised I've never actually looked into whether one exists!

Worms Armageddon is your best bet for that one. The steam version is fully multiplayer capable, with a reasonably active community.

It also has the patch that enables 48 worms on a single map...cue the carnage. (think 13 kills is the best I've managed with one turn)

I'm a big board gamer, I wonder how many other folks on here are, too.

I did dream up one ToS level when I was ill in the middle of the night (while trying to avoid puking up), but that's about it.

Quote from: Simon on August 06, 2023, 03:34:46 PM
Thanks for the elaborate reports! Happy to hear you've enjoyed yourselves. Looking forward to WillLem's group picture.

Maybe one day, I'll fly from Germany to England for one of these meetings.

-- Simon

That'd be cool, I wouldn't be the only one who speaks Lemmings 2 then :p

I should be there, where exactly on the concourse shall we be?

The videos are done, took a while but it was great fun. It also uncovered a whole host of issues and improvements to be made, in fact over a third of the levels got changed in some way. Some got easier, some got harder, some got fixed, some got improved.

The changes are mainly to fix backroutes and improve the execution side, which is always going to be an issue with levels of this size and difficulty in a game with 51 skills and a finicky fan. That's why I recommend the use of savestates, just like how everyone uses player aids in NL etc. to negate it there:

DOSBox with savestates

DOSBox-X (savestates built-in by default)

This version is a release candidate - so if you have played the previous version, please let me know if you found anything that needs fixing or improving (especially on the last 3 tribes) so I can make it as good as possible.

====================
Version 13.12 has been released
====================

Highland 6 (The Iron-Rich Mountain) - improved the water trap, so it looks slightly less ugly. (damn crawlers)
Highland 8 (Loch Lemmond Storage Tank) - restored the scenery to the cave ceiling, and +1 mortar to help get through it.
Highland 10 (Ten Brown Barrels) - reverted the +1 twister change from earlier, and replaced it with 3 mortars. (I did like the creativity involved with using the 2nd one, but it made it possible to bypass part of the puzzle)

Circus 1 (Base Camp) - a couple of cosmetic changes.
Circus 3 (Jack in t'Box) - swapped with L4, thinned out the roof of the inside (for easier ballooning), added/moved metal. (so it was possible to add 4 laser blasters without causing a backroute at the cannon)
Circus 4 (Don't Capture the Flag) - swapped with L3.
Circus 6 (The Weighting Room) - added 4 laser blasters. (it could get too close for comfort)
Circus 10 (Deca-Dance) - reverted the +1 twister change from earlier (it was causing puzzle bypasses), reworked terrain slightly (adding even more room for the remaining twister), -2 platformers (not needed), +3 superlems. (more room for error)

Classic 7 (Stepping Up & Down) - reworked some terrain (it was still possible to backroute) and all the scenery. Renamed to "Rising Column Scene" as a result. (an L1 reference to the new scenery)

Medieval 1 (Base Camp) - fixed the catapult to look right. (cosmetic)
Medieval 2 (Cave of Knaves) - swapped with L6 (too hard for it's current slot). Shortened 2 ledges and removed some bridges as a result. (now it's a bit harder like a concept level such as this should be, with some archery tricks from vanilla Sports 10 thrown in)
Medieval 3 (Hack & Slash) - swapped with L4.
Medieval 4 (Finishing the Arc) - swapped with L3.
Medieval 5 (Acrobatic Outlaw) - added wooden boards to each side of the water and slowed the release rate. (it was a little too hard to click the roller and get the first stack up in time)
Medieval 6 (White Cliffs of Dunder) - swapped with L2 (too easy for it's current slot, and moving it also works thematically and as an introduction to the tribe's heavy construction specialty). Also added some wall brackets to the top trapdoor. (so the rescuer can't escape)
Medieval 7 (Dungeon & Dragon) - added some markers into the ground by the tall tree. (to give a clearer indication of where to build from)
Medieval 8 (Siege Engine Graveyard) - carved a vertical wall into the rockface near the start (to remove the climber who was awkward to control) and altered the skillset a little.
Medieval 9 (Tower of Maidens) - raised the height of the side holes all the way up, reworked the exit area, reduced rollers to 5 and the timer to 5 mins. This kills off the backroute where 1 lemming could do all the work before the crowd got there, at the expense of changing it to a race against the clock. Renamed to "Tower of Madness" as a result.

Egyptian 2 (Stomp Like an Egyptian) - moved to L3.
Egyptian 3 (Night Boat to Duat) - moved to L4, added metal to the outside ledge, +1 carpet, -1 basher, -1 stomper. (backroute fixes)
Egyptian 4 (Wade in the Water) - moved to L2 (it's more novelty than puzzly), reworked the drop-down to the exit area.
Egyptian 8 (The Chambers of Cain) - removed some excess skills and added 1 filler.
Egyptian 10 (Mandatory Pyramid Level) - added a block under the central trapdoor on the right side (makes it easier to get the stomper in the right place), and -2 bashers. (to prevent their use on the pyramid itself)

Outdoor 2 (Race for Life) - reworked the bottom slightly, removed some excess skills.
Outdoor 3 (Under the Growth) - major rework of the area between the last 2 cave sections (including an extra flicker snail) and -1 platformer.
Outdoor 4 (In Order: Down, Along, Up) - added 1 planter, in case the worker needs to turn round at the top.
Outdoor 7 (The Irrigation Pond) - re-added the 4th trapdoor (top left) and replaced most scoopers with bombers. (it's more reliable in most areas)
Outdoor 9 (Swamp Thing) - added a thin grass layer under the left trapdoor. (makes it easier to get out with a planter)
Outdoor 10 (The Plantshaft) - reworked the ledge under the middle right trapdoor (top of vine ladder), making it easier/more reliable to tunnel into.

Beach 7 (Beach Hut BBQ) - complete rework of the middle section, and altered the skills as a result. (the glider puzzle is still there, but it wasn't really working in it's previous form)

Sports 8 (Switcheroo) - added 1 min. (way too tight)
Sports 10 (Mastered Doubles) - moved the red blocks closer to the steam vent, making it easier to find and execute the right mining spot. (that was my main concern in this level)

Shadow 3 (Filling Station) - moved a metal block into it's right place. (bug fix)
Shadow 9 (Mission: Impassable) - added 1 rock climber. (an extra lemming up top is helpful for speeding things up)
Shadow 10 (Pockets of Resistance) - added a wedge to the bottom right trapdoor, and removed some excess bombers.

Cavelem 2 (Land vs. Sea vs. Air) - altered the mid-level terrain (for easier management of the walkers), removed an excess stacker.

Space 3 (Orbital Bombardment) - swapped with L4, removed the metal in the cave walls, added some skills. This alters the solution so it's completely different on the right side of the level. (as a result it's more complex, but no longer a boring symmetrical novelty level)
Space 4 (Alien Hideout) - swapped with L3. (because of the above changes)
Space 5 (Defying Gravity) - lowered the exit (so it's not possible to fail at the end now) and improved the scenery.
Space 6 (JMC Mining Complex) - improved the pit area next to the left trapdoor (less likely to break into it now), removed 2 builders (not needed) and +3 mortars. (to give you a choice of explosions)
Space 8 (Beam Me Somewhere Shotty) - slowed the release rate (easier to set up the attractor now) and a slight change to the skillset.

Polar 5 (Eskimo Beat) - slight rework of the floor in the bottom-right corner. (it was still possible to backroute there)
Polar 6 (Ice Box Challenge) - slight rework of the cave ceiling (easier to scoop down into now), raised the top left trapdoor up a little. (so the stacker is required now)
Polar 7 (Research Outpost) - added a flamethrower, in case it's needed for error correction.
Polar 9 (Avalanche Rescue Team) - removed the scooper and moved the bottom-left trapdoor into the next cave up. (backroute fix)

Quote from: jkapp76 on July 19, 2023, 12:21:02 AM
https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZAHhOVZqUmQzmyvPnRJqtcULY4T5L8sNvkX

I just updated my portable version of Lemmings 2 to include this level pack as well as Kieran's

Just unzip to a folder and choose one of the three optional packs to play.

Sorry to bring the bad news, but can you update it again with this version?

Quote from: Zekethelemming on July 24, 2023, 02:52:38 AM
Doom, I love Doom.

There are source ports aplenty, no need for DOSBox. Some emulate vanilla very nicely (but get rid of limits that can crash the game etc.) while others update the game with modern features. (scripts, console, hardware rendering etc.)

https://www.doomworld.com/ has a variety of stuff, particularly if you want the classic feel.
https://www.zdoom.org/ if you want to jump into the modern side of things.