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Messages - Ste Woz Ere

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31

Two-player lemmings would be a great game nowadays? It certainly is. :lix-evil:


It was back then...however they talked about balancing the 2P levels by drawing them out, yet I distinctly remember the green player having a big advantage in nearly all of them. (only the asymmetrical level 12 favours blue iirc)

32
Another fixing/tweaking pass, mostly focusing on tribes that I hadn't really gone over in the absence of playtest reports (these are really important for finding backroutes that I haven't found), and one tribe that needed a bit of work in general:

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Version 13.2 has been released
====================

Medieval 2 (Finishing the Arc) and Medieval 3 (Acrobatic Outlaw) have swapped places with Medieval 4 (Hack & Slash) and Medieval 5 (Cave of Knaves).

Circus 5 (Across the Abyss) - removed the attractor and 1 min. (there is another way to stop the cannon for a while, one that doesn't clump the lemmings up and harm one of the solutions). Also added another trampoline, to make retrieving the platformer lemming easier.
Medieval 5 (Acrobatic Outlaw) - added 1 roller and dragons to the top section. (after finding yet another roller trick while fixing a different level)
Medieval 6 (Dungeon & Dragon) - moved the left trapdoor onto the sloping ledge, added 1 archer (slight improvements).
Medieval 9 (Tower of Maidens) -  filled in 2 gaps, altered the amount of several skills. (this prevents the builder puzzle at the top from being backrouted, along with streamlining the rest of the level)
Medieval 10 (The Siege of Lemcastle) - removed 4 platformers (after realising you could easily backroute it), added 1 miner/stacker, made some improvements to the far-right area.
Egyptian 6 (Wade in the Water) - removed 1 small pool, and extended 1 medium pool.
Outdoor 2 (Race for Life) - shortened the wooden ledge sequence, to tighten up the race a bit.
Outdoor 4 (In Order: Down, Along, Up) - removed 1 ledge, extended the vine ladder and tweaked the final bit, to streamline it a little.
Outdoor 9 (Swamp Thing) - reworked the right-side trapdoor, to accommodate the roper puzzle from the next level.
Outdoor 10 (The Plantshaft) - moved the roper puzzle to the previous level. (it's a bit cruel to spring it on you right at the end)
Beach 7 (Sandy Cove) - made the ceiling flat, in order to prevent a possible backroute. Also fixed a bug in the skill set that made the level impossible...it now correctly has divers instead of floaters. (I hate the way that L2 screws up the skill display on the level intro screen if any 0-skill boxes are present, forcing me to rearrange them on the editor when a level is finished...which is what caused this bug)
Cavelem 7 (The Lemcave) - removed all the upper ledges from the middle section of the cave, to prevent possible backroutes.
Cavelem 9 (Devolution of Lemmings) - reworked the bottom slightly, removed 2 builders. (to firmly remove any chance of backrouting it, but still with a spare to cover a particular gap that's tricky to do in 1)

I've also added a copy of my savegame file (save.dat) to the zip, so that levels can be skipped if you get stuck. It also ensures that Classic will have the right number of lemmings on each level.

33
A lemming.

34
Lemmings Main / Re: Secret exits (Amiga)
« on: January 10, 2022, 04:03:27 PM »
Mayhem 28 - I can't remember exactly which 2 pillars it was, but it definitely wasn't a walk-off.  It might even have been a dig-down from on top of the pillar...it's so long since I saw it, but I do remember my friend showing me that as the solution. (and me then wondering how to beat the rest of the level to reach the real exit)

Wicked 2 - Unfortunately not...all I can remember is not having to do the last awkward bit. (where you build into the overhead brick and bash through)

Multiplayer 5 - The first screenie looks like the right place...didn't think it was just a death glitch, though. (could've sworn it was an actual exit)

35
Lemmings Main / Secret exits (Amiga)
« on: January 06, 2022, 06:54:30 PM »
Anyone remember these? There were 3 in total IIRC:

Mayhem 28 - between two of the small pillars along the bottom section. (L1)
Wicked 2 - in the big pit at the end. (ONML)
Multiplayer 5 - partway along the bottom (starting) section, on the blue side. (ONML)

My memory is a bit fuzzy on the exact location of the first two, but I definitely remember my friend showing them all to me.

36
I've mostly been doing other stuff since the release, but I have had a look back at various levels that I wasn't entirely happy with (mainly in the tribes that haven't been playtested by others yet) and made some changes....also discovering a few bugs along the way.  So here's a new version with various improvements:

====================
Version 13.1 has been released
====================


Space 4 (Defying Gravity) and Space 5 (Orbital Bombardment) have swapped places.

Medieval 10 (The Siege of Lemcastle) - made some small changes around the middle of the level, to try and improve the flow a bit. Also added 2 builders and 2 platformers for flexibility. (using up every skill isn't a priority in this one)
Outdoor 7 (The Irrigation Pond) - re-added the 3rd trapdoor (there was originally 4 before release) to stop a backroute.
Outdoor 10 (The Plantshaft) - made the bottom left trapdoor safe, removed 1 roper. (wasn't needed and could ruin 1 puzzle)
Beach 9 (Beach Hut BBQ) - reworked the main puzzle in order to save it, also removing 10 sand pourers. The new version is much quicker to complete, so the time limit has been reduced. (it was way too high anyway)
Sports 6 (Dynamic Duo) - fixed the release rate to what it should be. (how this happened I have no clue. On one of the best levels too)
Sports 7 (The Gulf in Class) - moved the chain swingers to another level, as it was causing sprites to disappear. Also reworked the puzzle slightly, in order to remove dependence on an obscure trick that is discovered in the previous level.
Sports 8 (Switcheroo) - added a block to the right-side of the water, for the same reason as above.
Shadow 3 (Air Raid) - lowered the tower block slightly and reworked the underground section a bit, in order to save the final puzzle. (by making the builder+roper use consistent)
Shadow 4 (Filling Station) - reworked the main puzzle in order to save it. Removed all the bombers, plus 4 bazookas and 2 rock climbers.
Shadow 6 (Scraping the Sky) - improved the upward section a little, speeded up the release rate greatly.
Shadow 10 (Pockets of Resistance) - removed the water and 6 fillers.
Polar 5 (Eskimo Beat) - extended the water trough, added metal down to the 2-igloo platform. (backroute fix)

37
Shadow for me, followed by Space. Love the theming of both, and even more from a designer's perspective...as the original game didn't do justice to either of these tilesets. Medieval was also a pleasure to handle, given it's looks.

Outdoor was definitely the hardest to work with (so horrible to align the brown rocks), followed by Cavelem (no vertical rocks or big solid blocks of terrain) and Beach (no 45° slopes).

38
Lemmings Main / Re: Most annoying Lemmings level to you (any game)?
« on: January 02, 2022, 01:18:05 AM »
Probably some of the bigger L3 levels, mainly because the engine itself is so annoying.  For L1 it would be something like Save Me (super tiny ledge drops) and for L2 it would be Evolution of Lemmings. (the last thing you want to do with a jetpack is get it up through a tiny hole)

"Take Up Archery", from Lemmings 2, is the hardest and most annoying level of all the saga. I'm sure most players would agree with me :evil::devil:

For me, there was actually a 7-year gap between first playing L2 and finishing L2, thanks to this level. However, I found it much easier to repeat when I played it through 20 years later (mainly because I can fire vertical arrows reliably and remembered the right spot to throw 2 spears from). Definitely a nightmare first time around, but I think the 9th Cavelem level has the hardest execution trick in the game. (see above)

39
L2Player / Re: Lemmings 2 Data Formats
« on: January 02, 2022, 01:01:21 AM »
A Lemmings 2 clone? Yes please :thumbsup:

Even better if it (eventually) has player aids - while I managed fine using DOSBox with savestates, having NL-type stuff like rewinds, framestepping etc. would be even better. (might even make my L2 level pack a bit more palatable :P)

40
The winter solstice has recently passed, and as originally planned/hoped for, I have managed to complete the final tribe!
Like the previous two tribes, it came together really well with some neat skill combos and puzzles (despite losing a cool skier trick on the final level due to it causing weird graphical bugs and random crashes). Possibly not as hard as many of the other tribes, but I'm really happy with how it's turned out.

This won't be the final release, as they're bound to be full of backroutes and testing/feedback would be very welcome in order to get rid of them. I'm also planning a full video playthrough when the final release is ready.

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Version 13.0 has been released
====================

Polar - tribe is now complete.

All levels that weren't using their full size are now doing so, with extra scenery (L1-style).*

Classic 8 (Tricks & Traps) - replaced the newly-added block with metal. (just to ensure it can't be glitched)
Medieval 8 (Siege Engine Graveyard) - reworked the middle trapdoor again, removed a few skills and 1 min.
Shadow 9 (Mission: Impassable) - lengthened the thin shaft that the rock climber uses to reach the sewers.
Space 7 (JMC Mining Complex) - closed the mine shaft, added a few skills. (I realised that one bit of the puzzle could be bypassed, and I like this new solution better)

* Dunno how it got like this, it just kinda happened as I went along. As there was only a handful of early levels that were not using all the available room, I decided to bring those into line. I also like detailing stuff. None of the actual play areas are changed, and it's a nod to the original L1 too.

41
And the missing third is done. This was always one of my favourite tribes, but the original game didn't really do it justice IMO. QFK2 righted that, and here's my attempt at doing the same.  Space glue was awesome...I know the builder combo is OP but it gave me a lot of ideas and it led to some great combos with other skills. Jetpacks are a bit awkward but I found them to be quite useful for little things as well as the odd bigger thing. (always with plenty of room and spares like with other hard-to-execute skills)

Anyhow, one more tribe to go and quite a fitting one for the time of year. (we even had snow last week)

====================
Version 12.0 has been released
====================

Space - tribe is now complete.

Egyptian 6 (Wade in the Water) - shortened the containment area for the right-side trapdoor. (it's not as deep now, which fixes a backroute). I also forgot to include this one in the last update. (doh)

42
Great to hear from you again, and some great feedback too - many fixes to make:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've currently got around a third of Space to go, so here's a interim update with all the fixes:

====================
Version 11.1 has been released
====================


Highland 1 (Base Camp) - re-set the correct size, so it isn't a garbled mess. (ouch)
Highland 10 (Ten Brown Barrels) - added 1 twister and removed 2 mortars, reverting the previous change. (alternative solutions will always be a part of these epic finales, and I was impressed with the one in the video)
Classic 6 (Chambers of Aquatia) - removed 1 builder and 1 digger.
Classic 7 (Stepping Up and Down) - extended a block to shorten the area just above the exit.
Classic 8 (Tricks & Traps) - added a block between the fire jets in the exit area.
Classic 9 (Split at the Hill) - added metal to the left block, moved metal up the right block, removed 5 builders.
Classic 10 (Random Lemming Pun) - removed 5 floaters and 2 miners, reverted the previous change to the middle trapdoor.
Medieval 2 (Finishing the Arc) - removed the small hill, added metal to the starting ledges.
Medieval 3 (Acrobatic Outlaw) - removed the mess from the last update (ugh), slightly altered the exit area, reduced stackers to 2 and miners to 1.
Medieval 4 (Hack & Slash) - added metal to the starting areas.
Medieval 6 (Dungeon & Dragon) - moved the forgotten trapdoor to the grass area just outside the dungeon.
Medieval 8 (Siege Engine Graveyard) - extended the middle trapdoor tunnel area, moved the catapult back.
Egyptian 2 (Stomp Like an Egyptian) - added metal to the base of the start pillars.
Egyptian 3 (Tomb of Ikea) - shortened the ceiling table.
Egyptian 8 (The Chambers of Cain) - reworked the gap between trapdoor and exit. (so it can't be cheesed)
Egyptian 9 (The Plunger's Tomb) - removed all sand pourers (so it can't be cheesed), slightly reworked some areas to compensate.

43
Well, that was quick. I thought this tribe would take longer due to the awkward nature of the terrain, but it actually fitted together quite nicely (the tiling woes that I faced in Outdoor never really materialised here). The skillset isn't bad either - wings are ok when you get used to it (better than the other flying skills IMO), spears turned out more useful than I thought (despite not being able to chain them), and stacks are always handy.

====================
Version 11.0 has been released
====================

Cavelem - tribe is now complete.

Medieval 10 (The Siege of Lemcastle) - removed the immediate danger from the leftmost trapdoor. Also swapped them around so the one by the lake goes first. (these should allow you to get cracking on the exit section immediately)

44
Three quarters down, one to go.  This was definitely my favourite tribe for the actual level design, as I love it's night-time city setting. Bit of an odd skill set (explosions aren't the easiest way to tunnel) and perhaps not enough use of "the combo", but that does mean I used all aspects of the tribe a bit more. (and I'm particularly pleased with some of the filler tricks)

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Version 10.0 has been released
====================

Shadow- tribe is now complete.

45
Just in time for Halloween, the scariest tribe arrives (at least in vanilla it is). I really enjoyed playing with this skill set, there's a lot can be done with it (except for the pole vault ofc, which can do precisely 2 things). Throw in some steam*, trampolines and one of my best level ideas and you have this:

* We all have nightmares of that silly opening level from vanilla, but nothing like that here. Instead, they are puzzles, obstacles or a means to gain height.

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Version 9.0 has been released
====================

Sports - tribe is now complete.

Highland 3 (McLem's Drunken Dream) - moved the diamond down so it can be roped into. (it should've been moved earlier)
Medieval 3 (Acrobatic Outlaw) - slightly lengthened the start area, +2 miners, -1 platformer, -1 stacker.
Beach 3 (Everybody Do the Flop!) - removed a test trapdoor that was preventing the level from being completed. (doh)

In addition, I've gone through all of the tribes and altered the release rates...as most levels were left at the default value.

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