We've had a chance to sit with invincible lems having free skills for a bit. No levels have been created yet (apart from those in the SuperLemmix Welcome Pack), but I wonder what people's thoughts are on this particular aspect of the invincibility state at this point.

If you haven't already, please do check out the SuperLemmix Welcome Pack for several examples of levels featuring invincible lemmings. I'm in two minds as to whether the levels are actually improved by allowing the lem free skills. Instinct is probably not, but the state should feel somewhat OP and game-breaking, as it's what I'd expect from invincibility in video games in general. Maybe free skills is a step too far, though.

I don't think anybody who has replied to this agreed that free skills is a good idea, sadly. I absolutely do value other people's thoughts and opinions, but if I feel the need to try something I generally have to see it in action for myself before I can make my mind up. So with that clarified, now that we've had a chance to play with it for a bit (and still will until at least version 2.9, I imagine), what do we think now?

Dreaming of a new Level Select menu free of Windows dependencies/forms. There might be no going back from these gorgeous mockups, but even if I do make a start on this it will likely take a long time and potentially cause sizing issues; I'd want the text to be at least medium-res, which would mean increasing the minimum size that the SLX window can be.

Even so, let's just enjoy imagining the possibilities for now:



Each pack would have its own preview button, complete with player progress info. Any Talismans would simply be grouped by colour (Bronze, Silver, Gold) and only "lit" once all Talismans of that colour have been achieved for the full pack. Perhaps clicking the Talismans could bring up a list, as per the current default pack display.

Clicking a level pack would select it for Play / MRC / Playback / Cleanse / Shortcut-creation purposes. Clicking an already-selected level pack (or Single-left-clicking the "List" icon (bottom left of each level pack preview)) would open the levels list view:



Each group would be clickable - clicking it displays the list of levels in that group. Info for the currently-selected level would be shown on the right, with options for Play, Screenshot, Cleanse, etc. displayed across the bottom. All very similar to what we have now but built into the game window rather than relying on a popup Level Select form.

Thoughts welcome.

Quote from: WillLem

At present, the plan is to not allow a lemming to be both a Neutral and a Rival.

Do you have deneutralizers? What happens when you neutralize a rival, then deneutralize him: Will he be regular lemming or rival?

Had a bit of a brainwave today regarding this.

Neutrals currently count as +1 in a normal Exit and -1 in a Rival Exit. However, if we allow Neutrals to count as +1 in both Exits, then it might be OK to allow Rivals to become Neutrals. Furthermore, this scenario also makes more sense from a general gameplay point-of-view (i.e. Neutral lems shouldn't care which Exit they're in, because they're Neutral).

So then, assuming the NL 12.XX Neutralizer & De-neutralizer objects work as I imagine they do (I haven't implemented or tested them code-side yet), a Rival that becomes a Neutral and is then De-neutralized will become a Rival again (i.e. we won't remove the Rival tag from the lemming).

If this goes ahead, Neutral will have to be the "preferred" state if a lem is given both tags. This will then render them un-assignable to, save-able in both Exit types, and only potentially a Rival iff the level provides a De-neutralizer.

Given all current mechanics, and what could reasonably be expected from the game as "normal" behaviour, this seems to be the best way to handle the presence of both Rivals and Neutrals in the same level (and, indeed, the same lemming).

Made some more decisions/progress with Rivals today

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Scenario A: The level provides only 1 Lem type (Normals/Rivals), and 2 Exit types (Normals & Rivals).

Resolution: All Exit types are treated as if they're the same as the Lem type, regardless of assignment.

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Scenario B: The level provides 2 Lem types (Normals & Rivals), but only 1 Exit type (Normals/Rivals).

Resolution: The save requirement for the level is defaulted to {the total number of Lems that match the Exit type + any Neutrals + any Cloners} or {the existing save requirement}, whichever is lowest.

The save requirement is also adjusted for Exits with Lemming caps. This took a fair bit of doing, and could probably still be optimised further for readability/simplicity, but it's bug-free in every scenario I tested (multiple Exits, multiple Lem types, multiple Lem caps - all behave well).

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Meanwhile, I've decided to leave the Exit marker data as it is. So...

• SLX first looks for an Exit marker in the style's "effects" folder (if the folder exists). If it doesn't find one, if uses the one from the default style's "effects" folder (which, at present, is the blue/red flag)
• Marker position is tied to the individual Exit's .nxmo - this makes the most sense, since a style may feature multiple Exits, and each one will need its own marker position
• Marker frames are specified in the style's theme.nxmi file - still fairly unsure about this one, but for now it's better than adding more paperwork in the file system

Not much longer now and this one will be ready for fully showcasing, testing, and implementing as part of a level pack project. Next step is to make sure that the styles with custom sprites have Rival recolouring data. That's a job for tomorrow

Level 4 was another quick one, although I have gone ahead and added some pieces to l2_beach:



As well as the terrain piece mentioned in Reply #16, I've added the chain as a terrain piece (for now) and I've extended the beach umbrellas' handles by 1px; a number of the levels so far have featured slightly longer umbrella handles, so these pieces were probably longer originally.

Finished Level 2. This one took about 20 minutes; some of the terrain arrangements are a little bit unusual, but it was easy enough to figure out. It's a bit like doing a jigsaw puzzle:



Haven't play-tested it yet, that will come after I've finished doing the map work for all 10 levels.

Quote from: WillLem on May 18, 2024, 01:42:00 PM

or 10 levels (1 tribe) for 12 people

Eleven. Classic has been done years ago and should be findable with a forum search.