Lemmings Plus DOS Project

[namida]

It could be done, but I'm not sure that I want to. In many cases, I've also placed levels in positions with music I feel fits them...

[CynicalOkie]

I'd be willing to do if it if I knew how.

[namida]

It's simply a matter of finding the music file in the EXE and hex replacing it with the original one. Or recompiling it with the original one instead of the custom one.

[namida]

Partly because this pack has been out for AGES now, and partly because someone requested it but I can't PM an attached file,

Here are the replays of my solutions to all the levels. =D
(And you are right in thinking that I decided to be lazy and re-use the same replay for the first 3 No Salvation levels, since the same fairly-simple solution works on all 3. xD)

[mobius]

sorry for being dumb but how do you use (save and watch) replays within your LPDOS game?
[shift R didn't work...]

[namida]

The keyboard shortcuts that I'm aware of (keep in mind I didn't code the Lemmix player; I merely inserted my own levels into it and compiled from source with a couple of modifications):

- Enter: Save state
- Backspace: Load state
- F: Fast forward on/off
- Space: Jump 10 seconds
- U: Save replay
- L: Load replay
- M: Turn music on/off
- N: Advance one frame (You can also do this just by clicking in empty space, but clicking will interrupt a replay, pressing N won't)
- R: Quickly restart the level.

And of course, the usual F1 through F12 shorctus that DOS Lemmings also has.


As far as I'm aware, any keyboard shortcut that works in the Lemmix players (not the editor's test play mode, but the Lemmix clones of Original / ONML) should work in this too.

[namida]

Okay, I extracted the data files from it and I figure, may as well upload them. Feel free to do what you like with them.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/kt9avwjwjwsn4jf/lpdosfiles.zip

Contains LEVEL000.dat through LEVEL009.dat as well as ODDTABLE.dat (since LP DOS makes use of Oddtable for repeat levels).

Should be noted that because of this Oddtable-use, not every level is in there. Specifically, where a level has a repeat version, only the repeat version is included. For the No Salvation levels, 3 are included as is, the other two aren't (since the LPDOS Lemmix Player uses Oddtable for them). The removed level "Phase Rotation Syndrome" is in there as well, since while it was removed, it's earlier repeat wasn't.

All levels are the same versions as in the newest version of the player, so it includes the new levels like Russian Rescue and the updated Coalburner.

If anyone's playing them in anything, just keep in mind that these levels are designed for ORIGINAL mechanics, not OhNo/CustLemm. This can make a difference in some levels which are specifically designed with Orig release order in mind (for example, Shooting Star) or levels with falls that have been carefully adjusted (for example, Not Gonna Work or To The End!). No new backroute fixes either, just those already included in version 7. There's also one mechanics change unique to the Lemmix Player - specifically, bombers are instant rather than having a 5 second countdown. No levels rely on this though; it just cuts out the need to time then. (EDIT: Actually, I think I may have set the fall distance in LPDOS even *less* than what it is in Orig, I could be wrong though.)



Something interesting, when I extracted these, I found a few of other people's levels had been compiled into the EXE too. There's no way to actually access them, but the data's in there. I think it's because they were in my Lemmix source code folder back in the day because I always used to compile Lemmix players with like 5 or 6 packs of people's levels, in order to play them... and somehow they ended up in the LPDOS EXE too. But - as I said - you can't actually play them in any way, they're just embedded in the EXE. I recognize some of them as being by Insane Steve, but most of them I have no idea who's they are. Apart from Phase Rotation Syndrome, there doesn't seem to be any of *my* levels hidden in there other than the ones that are actually part of LPDOS.

[namida]

As some of you have probably guessed from my out-of-character-for-me dedication to making the custom graphic set tool, and other posts I've made lately (especially those in level editor-related topics), I'm having another go at making a new entry in the Lemmings Plus series.

I haven't decided on a final name yet, but I'll probably drop the whole "DOS Project" subtitle and return to just "Lemmings Plus" and a number. The question really is what that number should be - the possibilities are:
- 4, since the last numbered entry in the LP series was LP3.
- 5, since it's the 5th entry in the LP series (and thus, retroactively, LPDOS would be considered LP4).
- II, using roman numerals to differentiate the Lemmix-based packs from the Cheapo packs.

At the moment I'm a bit biased towards that last one, but far from made up my mind on it. The first one also has merit, it would somewhat suggest LP DOS to be a bonus pack rather than an actual entry in the LP series. This makes sense somewhat, since you don't see LP2 re-using LP1 levels or LP3 reusing LP1/LP2 levels, but quite a few of the LPDOS levels come from LP1-3 (a few, most notably No Time To Die, also come from the never-completed Cheapo LP4, or some (including the final level! xD) from my WinLemm pack). The last one, likewise, sort of seperates the DOS packs and the Cheapo packs into two seperate series. I'm not so keen on the name LP5 for it, though at the moment I'm using LP5 as a working title of sorts.


As with LPDOS, it will run on a custom-made Lemmix player, with DOS datafiles also available. However, I don't guarantee the levels to be solvable under an actual DOS EXE due to mechanics differences, specifically:
- Instant bombers (just like in LPDOS)
- Miners handle one-way-right areas correctly
- Less fake objects; only those numbered 24 or above will be considered fake
(EDIT: The DOS data files for the levels will not be released, as there are too many mechanics differences and some levels with special mechanics. However, the graphic sets will be made available for anyone to use.)

The graphic sets will be usable with the standard DOS versions of course, it's just possible that the levels of the new project themself may not be solvable other than under the custom-made Lemmix player. Oh yeah that's right - as you probably guessed, for the first time in a Lemmings Plus pack (despite the first 3 being made in Cheapo), this one will use custom graphic sets! So far revealed are the tree and psychedelic sets, there's two more which I've planned but haven't done much work on yet (certianly not enough to have anything to show for it), and I intend to come up with a fifth one for it too.


This pack will contain 100 levels split into 5 difficulty ranks: Nice, Cheeky, Sneaky, Cunning and Genius.

The two levels you've seen previews of in association with my custom graphic set tool (Yours Treely and Fun With Lasers) are indeed part of it - from early-Cheeky and mid-Nice respectively. Here's a couple of screenshots from other levels that I've made so far - one from early-Nice (first level, actually), one from late-Cheeky, and one that I haven't decided on a final position for yet but will probably be late-Cunning or early-Genius. You can probably guess which is which. =P (Note: These may not nessecerially show a correct solution in progress. )

Are there any specific levels from LPDOS that you really liked or didn't like, everyone? I'll try to keep these things in mind when designing levels for LP5. From what I could gather, No Time To Die and To The End! seemed to be pretty widely-enjoyed levels, and on the other end of the spectrum, I get the feeling people weren't exactly too impressed with levels like The Parking Lot, Lightspeed Lemming and Crosswork... What about the V7 changes? Are there other levels that you would've liked to see replaced as well (or perhaps levels that you thought shouldn't've been replaced)? - inb4"Danger 9!!!!!!!" Do you think the new levels are a good improvement? I am aware the placing of some of them wasn't the best - the new Medi 16 is probably too hard for even Danger, let alone Medi, for example.



EDIT: In somewhat unrelated news, I found a copy of the intended V7 replacement level for Danger 2, "Rolling Rampage", but it appears I didn't upload it. I'll do so when I get home. =) It's nothing close to becoming the new big level of LPDOS, but it's still a pretty neat level IMO, far more so than Metal Lands anyway. =P Of course, Metal Lands remains the official Danger 2 - I might reuse the idea of Rolling Rampage for an LP5 level. (EDIT: Confirmed, Rolling Rampage has been remade in a LP5 graphic set for LP5 - which means it is definitely not, and never will be, an official LPDOS level. I'll leave the original version up as a bonus level though.)

EDIT: Meh, kept forgetting. Uploaded it now. Just extract it to your LPDOS folder, then play Medi 3 or Danger 2 to see the new levels.

[namida]

Another new graphics set - Metal!

I quite like the way this set's turned out. I was afraid it was going to look too dull due to the nearly-exclusive use of gray.

The first three levels combined cover all 8 skills (at least with the obvious solutions) - the first one has climbers, floaters and bashers, the second one has blockers, builders and miners, and the third one has bombers and diggers. It is possible to beat the first level without floaters, the second without blockers and the third without diggers - but most importantly, bombers and miners are essential, and the miner will most likely cross through a one-way-right field, in order to point out the mechanics changes with those two skills even to people who don't read the help. =P The level "Fun With Lasers" as shown in the video above (although the video is running under CustLemm, not the Lemmix player, but the level is the same apart from a small terrain glitch fix which, ironically, didn't actually *need* to be fixed becasue it only occurs in CustLemm, not Lemmix), is brought in a bit later on to introduce the one-way fields (which are not in all graphic sets, so far only the psychedelic set has them, but I'm going to add them to the metal set too - I don't plan on adding them to the tree set).

(Specificially: Miners now handle one-way-right areas properly. Bombers are exactly the same as they are in LPDOS.)


Another update: Since this'll run exclusively on Lemmix, I see no need to limit myself to what DOS can handle (again, this applies only to the levels - the graphic sets will be 100% DOS-compatible and you can build your own levels and run them in whatever you like). Therefore, some levels may exceed 80 lemmings - generally if they do so, it'll be 100 lemmings, but just for the awesomeness value, expect one level to have around 200 to 250. =D (Lemmix can actually handle up to 400 without any noticable slowdown, at least on my PC, while if you don't mind the lag it appears it can go all the way up to 65535 - but considering that even at RR99 that'd take over 4 hours to come out of the trapdoor (and make Lemmix lag like hell), I don't plan on making a level with that many!)

[Wafflem]

First-time poster here, but I've been a huge Lemmings fan since I was young. I have been going to the forums and playing others' levels on Lemmix and Lemmini, and I have to say, Lemmings Plus is one of my favorite sets I have ever played.

When I played it, I felt like I was playing a new Lemmings game. There are so many levels that are excellent and show original solutions. Also, honestly, I'm not as good at solving hard Lemmings levels, so I feel that that this pack has been helping me to develop my thinking skills. I have to list a few favorites from each one, some with explanations. The bolded ones are my top favorites:

Note - I haven't solved all the PSYCHO levels yet, so this isn't a complete list for that difficulty. Also, I know the solution for PSYCHO 11, but it is really hard to execute.

Mild 8 - Wish you had them? - a very good tutorial level that differs from many others because you have to use other skills.
Mild 19 - Go on Up (forgot the title)
Mild 27 - Quarantine!
Mild 30 - You Just Lost the Game!
Wimpy 10 - Labyrinth of Despair - I love the labyrinthine maze and the fact that you can find multiple solutions due to the 30 skills of each (except floaters).
Wimpy 12 - Russian Rescue
Wimpy 15 - Just When You Think You Know! - you make a simple-looking level very tricky with a 99 release rate. I had fun trying to solve this level with 100%. 
Wimpy 17 - No Need to Worry! - I'd daresay one of the more original one-lemming-leading-the-way level layouts - a floating box with one-way arrows really makes you think.
Wimpy 21 - One Step at a Time
Wimpy 22 - Fast Enough? - the repeat is original in that it makes you use a skill that people don't normally use under a tight limit.
Wimpy 26 - Savior
Medi 6 - Fallen - this level was one of the levels that helped develop my thinking skills
Medi 8 - Cavern of Chills
Medi 10 - Bob's Problem - for making me employ a multitude of tricks. But who's Bob?
Medi 12 - Step Up! - another level that helped develop my thinking skills.
Medi 16 - The Oddstack (though I agree that it should have been in late Danger.  )
Medi 19 - Force Field
Medi 28 - Way Up High
Danger 5 - Some Kind of Lemming
Danger 6 - Alternative Logic - for having a small trick that you need with a split second to spare.
Danger 10 - Keeping on Track - it was fun finding a way to trap the lemmings with only builders.
Danger 11 - The Warp Room (I would like to observe that this one and Medi 19 both come from your very first LemEdit pack (as Steaver370)!)
Danger 15 - Circular Wavelength
Danger 16 - Grounded!
Danger 19 - Antigravity - I like the challenge of not having builders and needing to turn the lemmings on the right while saving 100% at the same time.
Danger 20 - No Salvation IV - I was able to employ a trick, since the solution is far different from the previous No Salvation levels.
Danger 21 - It's the Latest Craze! - one of my top favorite levels. I love the huge level structure, and the time limit works too.
PSYCHO 4 - Think Outside the Square! - I like how condensed it is in terms of time limit and skills compared to Medi 11
PSYCHO 15 - Where Anything Goes... - for learning another trick to save all the lemmings in an actually limited time. I don't mind the bashing of the long walls.

Wimpy 13, "A Magician Would be Handy," felt out-of-place. I know you stated that you like to put a hard level amongst levels related to their difficulty, but it feels a lot like a Medi level.

I'm not sure if this is true, but with the new bomber mechanic, I find that PSYCHO 10, "What Did You Expect?", becomes a lot easier. I haven't seen your replay to that level yet, though.

I liked the original Medi 8 as well - "Take Us All Home..." . It wasn't that bad for a building level, and there was a slight puzzle to it in that you only get 7 of each skill and you have to save all the lemmings.

As for the new Medi 3 and Danger 2 - "Just a little twist" and "Rolling Rampage," I feel that you should place those levels in your new Lemmings Plus game. Sure, the original Medi 3 and Danger 2 aren't anything special, but I feel that you've changed the pack too much. Those two levels would work better in the new pack.

Another thing I enjoy about the pack is trying to save 100% in levels where I can do so. It provides an excellent challenge for me, especially in Mild 19, Wimpy 15 and Medi 11. I think that the title of Mild 18, "Dying Not Recommended," gets that point across. 

I may add more comments to your Lemmings pack, but I give it a overall score of 9/10. I think you did an excellent job. 

I look forward to your new Lemmings Plus pack, and I'm impressed at your custom graphic sets. Good luck with it!

[namida]

Awesome!

For Psycho 11, you should be aware that there are at least three different solutions, and at least one of these is not particularly hard to execute. So if you're finding it hard to pull off, maybe try a different approach. =)

I'm surprised at your comments on Danger 21, because personally, I'm not a huge fan of that level (though I do far prefer it to the level that used to be there, Phase Rotation Syndrome).

Psycho 10 still requires three pixel-precise bombers; the only difference is you no longer have to time them too.

I'm not sure if you saw it (though I'd be surprised if not), but there's a list on the first page of what's the highest % possible to save in each level. As far as I'm aware, the hardest level to save 100% that it's still possible on is Psycho 22, but this one requires a glitch (either sliding, or blockers pushing climbers into walls - your choice).

A lot of my favorite levels are similar to yours. Fallen is probably my favorite non-Psycho level, and I love Russian Rescue and Cavern Of Chills too. I felt like a genius when I came up with the idea behind Alternative Logic, even though realistically, it's quite simple.  The ones you've noted aside, two major favorites of mine that didn't make your list are Medi 29 and Danger 29 (Lemmingsense and Pipeline Problem). (EDIT: I did notcie though, that for the former, you do have the level's *easier* version on your list.)

As for your question about Medi 10, "Bob's Mistake", it's actually named after a waterslide. =) Though the title does also somewhat hint at the solution (specifically, having to go the *wrong* way first when you go downwards).

I also felt that No Salvation IV was a big step up from No Salvation III - the jump from 6 skills to 4 actually makes quite a noticable difference. There again, if you think that was bad... I hope you're not expecting to be home free yet, you've still got No Salvation V to go once you get up to it... =P And no, there's no being nice and breaking the usual pattern either... it's the usual 10 less lemmings, 10% extra required, and two less of each skill. =)

[Wafflem]

Thanks!

I played “With a little twist” and “Rolling Rampage.” For the former, I was able to somewhat employ a trick used in the original Danger 21, “Phase Rotation Syndrome,” except without blockers and with builders. The latter is pretty challenging – it challenged me on when to use my bombers and diggers. I’d say they’re worthy replacements for the former two levels, but I still think they work better for your new Lemmings game as well. Here’s how I did those two levels in the replays I’ve attached.

I found a backroute in Medi 27; replay attached.

Yes, I saw the list of levels and whether each one 100% is possible or not. In Medi 18, I was actually able to get 100%. Here’s the attached replay for that level as well.

I would also like to comment on Danger 25 – I got surprised when I figured out the actual solution. I spent so many times trying to break through that one-way Flagpole/Pen/whatever with limited skills, and my only clue was to use the 100% solution of Wimpy 11, which I never actually figured out. After I did… 

I will try to figure out the other solution for PSYCHO 11. Thanks for the tip!

Also, I just read your very first post and saw this:

Also - a random piece of trivia I realised the other day. Danger 11, "The Warp Room", is my oldest surviving level! That level (the exact level as it is in here, not just the general layout/skillset/solution concepts but the EXACT level) even predates Lemmings Plus 1 back in the days of Cheapo. o_O Despite this, I don't think it was ever released as part of a pack until LPDOS, though I did release it at one point as a standalone level. Or it might've been in my WinLemm pack... Anyway, the only other levels that are still around that are anywhere close to being as old are Bullet Lemming (the Cheapo version in LP1, not the LPDOS version of it), Alert Taxis 3092000 (which was remade, albeit almost unrecognizably, as "Die The Death Of The Damned" in LPDOS) and, if it's still out there somewhere, "This Time We Brought 30 More" (a modification of Tame 1 that I made for a level design contest).

Both "The Warp Room" and "This Time We Brought 30 More" can be found in the website Lemming Crazy, the former being in your very first pack with seven other levels.

[namida]

That website's still there?! =O WOW... That would mean LP1-3 should still be easily available too...

[Akseli]

You probably know, but LPDOS was one of the packs that got me really keen on custom Lemmings and this community. Playing a great level pack that begins from easy and gets progressively harder through dozens and dozens of levels is something that delights me endlessly. Your pack was unique, and I still haven't played through any other large custom level pack that uses DOS mechanics. I remember being disappointed when I read that you were planning to make a sequel pack but you lost your interest in it. Now that you just come up and tell that you're again aiming to create a massive level pack gets me of course enthusiastic big time. I just wish you luck for your project and you can be sure that there are people who are anticipating to see what you'll work out.

Yeah, I remember playing Ji Hoon's Lemmings remake but also one 8-level pack of yours from that Lemmings Crazy site. The pack included The Warp Room, so I immediately recognized that it's made by you. LPDOS I've played still two times through, at first the third version and then the seventh version. I think I told you over a year ago that I might give you more of my thoughts of your levels or even write a review of your entire level pack, but it seemed that you weren't interested in Lemmings so much anymore. Now that you are this much active here, I certainly could try to give more feedback about your levels. I might have another go for LPDOS soon, and then I'll finally also try to find challenge solutions, so you probably won't need to fill your LPDOS Challenges thread yourself.

I'm probably going to look at your replays for your levels after my third playthrough of LPDOS, nice that those are now available. I also didn't know about the hot keys for loading and saving replays in your Lemmix player, it's neat to know now.

My favourites of your levels... Here are those that I can remember now:
Wimpy: Ready, Aim, Fire!!!
Medi: Fallen, Bob's Mistake, Shooting Star, Eye of the Lemming, Way Up High
Danger: Backdraft, Some Kind Of Lemming, Alternative Logic, With A Quirk Or Two..., The Warp Room, Circular Wavelength, Grounded!, Die the Death of the Damned
PSYCHO: Variety Day, Turn Back With Care, Coalburner, A Perfect Nightmare, Bullet Lemming, Perfectionism (a Danger level in v7), To The End!, Hellfire!
Also ALL the new levels in v7.

I remember that my least favourite levels were Chain Reaction and Overheat.
I also recall that your pack contained nice variety in the types of the levels. In addition to clever puzzles there were also simply fun to execute levels, such as The Buildo Station, and levels that needed plain accuracy, like What Did You Expect? and some brute forceish but still puzzling levels with lots of skills, like In the life of a Lemming. I found this diversity really, really enjoyable already back then when I played your pack the first time. So, I'm definitely ok with various kinds of level types!

[namida]

I'm with you 100% on Chain Reaction, but personally I actually quite like Overheat.

I can see that there's a really strong consensus (that I myself agree with) on some levels, such as Fallen, Eye of the Lemming, Some Kind Of Lemming and Circular Wavelength (those are the levels, outside of the "big" ones in Psycho, that I'm noticing it the most about). I'll have to try and make more levels along those lines - I definitely can see why they're popular, but it takes a stroke of genius at the right time to come up with those kind of levels.

(Although an interesting point - "Some Kind Of Lemming"'s solution was actually strongly based off the original intended solution to "Eye of the Lemming" - I wonder if anyone else felt these levels were somewhat similar?)

Also ALL the new levels in v7.

How did you feel about the difficulty of those? Especially for Medi 16 and Medi 21?


Also, as per a few people's suggestions, I'm remaking Rolling Rampage in one of the LP5 styles. So it can definitely be considered a 100% non-official part of LPDOS (I'll still leave it available as a bonus level, though), since it'll be an official LP5 level. Short of any strokes of genius of making it into a harder level (which isn't always an essential thing; obviously I need some easier ones too =P), it'll probably end up in mid-Sneaky (3rd difficulty rank).