[✓][BUG][RetroLemmini] Missing exits in Lemmings Plus I

WillLem · December 28, 2025, 12:59:03 AM

From Ron_Stard:

Quote from: Ron_Stard on December 24, 2025, 01:18:30 AMI've discovered that in Lemmings Plus I, there are several levels where the house the Lemmings are supposed to come out of isn't shown. This doesn't happen in SuperLemmini Too. Specifically, this happens in all the levels of "No Salvation," as well as in "Overheat" (Wimpy 26) (screenshots attached) and Medi 28 ("Way Up High")

I used the Lemmings Plus level version posted here:

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5620.msg92258#msg92258

It may happen with other levels, but I haven't advance much far nor test thoroughly every level I have in my collection.

WillLem · December 28, 2025, 01:15:49 AM

ericderkovits has confirmed via Discord that this is due to styles revision 2.2, which combines the exits into single images (rather than exit + exit top); some levels are bound to need correcting following this update, but it's worth it for future level creation.

I'll release an update for Lemmings Plus I shortly which fixes these levels. Thanks for reporting!

WillLem · December 28, 2025, 01:35:10 AM

This issue has now been fixed in version 1.3 of Lemmings Plus I, available here.

Simon · December 28, 2025, 05:19:27 AM

Quote from: WillLem on December 28, 2025, 01:34:11 AMThe following levels have been fixed for compatibility with RetroLemmini 2.4 (specifically, styles revision 2.2):

PLEASE NOTE: Following this update, this pack is no longer compatible with SuperLemmini or SuperLemminiToo. Please continue to use V1.2 for those engines.

You have a style incompatibility in both directions: Can't play old content in new RetroLemmini, can't play new content in earlier Lemmini.

Can you even recommend all those RetroLemmini, SuperlemminiToo, ..., to play Lemmings 1 and ONML anymore? You instruct to install the DMA L1/ONML pack and say nothing about the style incompatibility.

-- Simon

WillLem · December 28, 2025, 10:09:45 AM

Quote from: Simon on December 28, 2025, 05:19:27 AMYou have a style incompatibility in both directions: Can't play old content in new RetroLemmini, can't play new content in earlier Lemmini.

Despite the strong wording of the linked post, it's really more of an advisory than an outright incompatibility. A couple of us are currently checking existing levels; so far, only a small handful are affected. The vast majority of levels work as expected following the update.

RetroLemmini levels that make use of the new, single exit graphic unfortunately won't be compatible as-is in older versions, but this is an acceptable trade-off; a single image for the exit is something that should have been in place from the start.

Nonetheless, in either direction, the "mods" system can be used to ensure compatibility if push comes to shove, and if the user doesn't want to update the styles.

Quote from: Simon on December 28, 2025, 05:19:27 AMCan you even recommend all those RetroLemmini, SuperlemminiToo, ..., to play Lemmings 1 and ONML anymore? You instruct to install the DMA L1/ONML pack and say nothing about the style incompatibility.

There's nothing to say regarding these levels. Care was taken to ensure that the correct image was replaced for each style (i.e. whichever image represents the top-left part of the exit, be it the main part or the animated part).

The levels in Lemmings Plus I that were broken by the styles updates didn't use the exit top (the animated part), which happened to represent the top-left part of the exit in the styles used by these levels. This is a very unusual design choice, and the reason for the reported issue.

Since all of the L1 and ONML levels use both parts of the exit, they are completely unaffected by the styles update. So, we can continue to recommend RetroLemmini for playing these packs.

EDIT: It would be possible to add the deprecated pieces back in to the styles to ensure cross-compatibility, but I'm only happy to do this if it proves to be a major problem. So far, we've fixed the small handful of existing levels that have been affected, and any content made since the release of RetroLemmini should ideally be played in the most up-to-date version available anyway.

Simon · December 28, 2025, 11:19:42 AM

Quote from: WillLem on December 28, 2025, 10:09:45 AMThe levels in Lemmings Plus I that were broken by the styles updates didn't use the exit top (the animated part), which happened to represent the top-left part of the exit in the styles used by these levels. This is a very unusual design choice, and the reason for the reported issue.

Okay, that lifts all of my worries. All the L1 and ONML DOS levels use exit tops and exit bottoms together. And when you replace tops by full exits (a tile that combines the old top with the old bottom), you're fine.

AFAIK, only one DMA level, Division Bell in Holiday Lemmings, ever uses an exit bottom without its exit top. It's the left-hand exit. The right-hand exit is correctly put together with a top and bottom, and you can only ever win within the time limit by going to the right-hand exit anyway.

Since you comb through the affected levels by hand, with a team even, and fix what you find, it's fine. The alternative would have been to generate the full exit from the old exit bottom, not from the old exit top.

-- Simon