Level Design Contest #30 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

[Armani]

...and played through the rule2 levels!

March of the Neutrals (click to show/hide)

The level goes with the flow and plays out naturally. I like how you have to be a busy bee to guide the march of the neutrals to the exit

Set To Kill! (click to show/hide)

I got two solutions. I suspect the second solution is intended! It's incredible how you can make such an interesting level with only destructive skills.

Don't Bash It Before You Dig It (click to show/hide)

I like how the route going the long way around is just red-herring

The Incredible Doom Machine (click to show/hide)

I got two solutions. First one should be a backroute. The second solution might be a backroute as well but at least closer to intended imo because for me, it looks like the intended solution involves some kinds of nuke interaction to compensate the lack of downward destructive tools..

[IchoTolot]

@Crane
Acceptable alternative. The 100% intended route still has a more interesting solution, but here I would need pick-ups and stuff to fully enforce it. I will show it off later. But this type of solution is totally acceptable.

@Armani
R1 is intended now and you predicted correctly for R2. One is intended the other is now fixed with 2 steel blocks.

[kaywhyn]

@Crane & @Armani

R1 - All solutions are 100% intended. Great job! Thanks again for the feedback and am glad to hear you both liked my R1

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Having two sacrifices to the icicle trap is the hardest to see here IMO, and it might even be the first such custom level to require such. I myself don't recall any level I might had played that requires this, although I do remember a few levels where one sacrifice to a trap is needed.

R2 - All solutions are backroutes, though Armani is very accurate with how he described his second solution. For V3, I removed some steel, took away the fencer pickups and restored the skillset the way it was before with V1 (5 fencers and only 3 lasers again). I think Armani was right when he said it would be an "easy" fix. Turns out the steel was a bit too helpful. Who knew? I feel like this could still be cheesed a bit, and if it can, my suspicion is that I simply just need to reduce the time limit some more. For now, let's just keep it at 3 mins.

[Crane]

resolved all the updated rule1 levels
(High Striker, Comm-Link Online!, Snow Way!)
They all look intended

Yep, your solution is intended @Armani - well done.

[Armani]

resolved all the updated r2 levels

[Armani]

and played through r3 levels as well

Tomb Raiders (click to show/hide)

The layout really gives me "classic-tribe" vibe like it's an official level from L2. I'm not sure whether the level is supposed to be open-ended with a lenient skill set or I just backrouted it.

Neither here nor there (click to show/hide)

quite clear that two miners crossing each other has to be done. A little bit tricky to actually pull it off. It's always fun to watch the basher sliding down the slope

Mr Lemmy Does Not Live Here Anymore (click to show/hide)

I had a blocker left over. I can see the familiar chunk of terrains from original L2 level here and there

The Epic of Gilgamesh (click to show/hide)

Extremely builder-heavy, I used all but 5 builders

Always Remember (click to show/hide)

The first solution should be a backroute. The second solution looks much more intended. The whole contraption at the left side of the exit just takes too much time so taking advantage of the little box at the right side of the exit sounds most reasonable.

[Crane]

Completed WillLem's "The Meeting".

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Seems like a very open-ended and straightforward level, not that that's a bad thing, but I can't believe that you've never made a Marble-themed level!

As for Armani's R3 replay, it is a backroute, but I'm happy that I got a good classic air to the level.

[IchoTolot]

I adjusted the link to the ruleset in the first post.

@Armani
100% Intended solution to my R3!
The blocker is only there to reduce the precision on that one basher at the top.

Just to note it here in the topic: I sadly needed to clean up the update topic to get rid of the posts without entries.
@WillLem If you want you can still post an eligible level, but I must sadly reject this one as I know you already made a marble level.

[ericderkovits]

@Armani

Your solution to my Rule 2 level is 100% intended.

However, I added 2 Talismans in V4.

Also your solutioin to my Rule 3 level is intended.

[Crane]

Finally completed Cheddar-Crusted Hash Browns.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If this is intended, this was absolutely evil, because I was stuck for so long on the "Denial set-up", swearing that it must be right, along with using a Bomber to help the climber get back up.  If that was all a red herring, you are an evil genius!

[kaywhyn]

@Armani

R2 - Both solutions are backroutes. For V4, I've adjusted the terrain, added some terrain, and made 4 of the fencers pickups. If the level can still be cheesed, then I probably just have to modify the skillset a bit more.

R3 - You are correct in how you described your two solutions. One of them is 100% intended, the other a backroute which hopefully has been fixed with some steel I added. If you can give me confirmation that the intended route is the only way possible, that would be great. It's interesting that this level of mine reminds you of Crane's level. That honestly never occurred to me, but after our discussion on Discord I think I understand. In any case, it sounds like my R3 was quite liked by the both of you and hence my prediction was correct! Honestly, I didn't expect this level to be so challenging for anyone, let alone the likes of you two However, I think I can see why this can still trip people up, as I point out in the spoiler.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Indeed, that backwards bashing on the one-pixel thin floor is quite sneaky! Apparently this did Crane in, as he kept using the wrong tool, a miner to be exact. Also as Armani correctly pointed out: You take the obvious route and you won't ever get them all to the exit on time! Unless players realize the true use of the little box to the right of the exit, they will be stuck aimlessly and be wondering how the heck is this possible with the time limit given? This level also teaches the importance of the destruction mask of digging skills, where both the basher and the miner can reach several pixels above them too and can come in quite in handy!

Also, oops, did you want to use the bombers to shortcut the level? I didn't just deny you guys an easy victory that way! *wags my finger left/right like no, no, no This would be the first time I've thrown in completely useless bombers for a level. Why? Because I can! This of course was intentional on my part. Just to screw with players in case they don't pay attention to the save all requirement

[Crane]

Finally did Chedder-Crusted Hash Browns the intended way (this is before any fixes were made to the level).

[Crane]

And completed R1's Guts Over Fear!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Damn this was hard to work out!  So many red herrings in the level design and toolset.  I finally found a place where I can switch out a Basher for a Shimmier and have a couple of Bashers fulfil more than one role apiece.  Also found out the reason for the 5 Floaters!  Nice one Armani!

P.S. I wonder if blocking a Shimmier was inspired by my original plan for "Containment" before I scrapped it.  I can't remember if I told you or not regarding my plan with that.

[Armani]

@Crane Intended

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I can switch out a Basher for a Shimmier and have a couple of Bashers fulfil more than one role apiece

That's the main trick I wanted to enforce. Release the crowd, send two worker lemmings to make a turnaround point for the climber with one basher.
I think blocking a Shimmier is relatively common in custom level scene. I have seen quite a lot of levels requiring it and I myself also have two or three levels in my first pack.

[Armani]

And here're my resolves to the updated levels.