Level Design Contest #28 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

[geoo]

All solutions to Underground Club and Fast Food Forest are intended!

I kinda like Simon's solution to Frog Clog, but I decided to replace the platformer with a builder anyway, to eliminate it (see update topic). This also eliminates the other solution by Icho/Armani (which I like less).

[IchoTolot]

Resolves for Kingshadow3's and geoo's R2.

I think Kingshadow3's might be at least close to intended, but I have spare Lixes and skills for geoo's level. Although, I think it's closer than the first solution.

[kaywhyn]

@Icho

Finally got around to checking your solutions to my levels. As I feared, they're all backroutes I will release a fix later on. My R1 and R2 I think I have a fairly good idea on what the fixes would be, while R3 might need some more thinking on. Thanks again for showing me that the V3's of my levels can still be cheesed

[Armani]

resolved all the updated levels!

Lix
 - geoo's Frog Clog
NL
 - kaywhyn's Sports-tacular No Athlete Rescue Mission
 - NieSch's The L-Team (Part II)
 - kaywhyn's Chalkboard Math with Mr. Starfish
 - kaywhyn's Quick Emergency Patch Work

[NieSch]

NieSch's The L-Team (Part II)

Close, but not there yet. I updated the level to V6.

I also updated my intended solution replay file to the level in the attachment some posts above. The solution of IchoTolot still works with V6 too, but not his replay file of it.

[kaywhyn]

All rightie, I've finally released a V4 for all my entries. Once again, thank you all for your patience and understanding. I'm just slowly getting back into Lemmings after my lengthy break/hiatus from the game. I was just beyond stressed the last several weeks and with personal life, but I think I'm all right again and ready to come back, so no need to worry about me. Hopefully nobody missed me too much I'm hoping to make some time this week to go through these entries. I'm starting with the Lix entries and then after that onto the NL entries

Ok, now I can get into more details about Icho's and Armani's solutions to my V3's.

@Icho

Those are backroutes to all 3 of my levels as I previously mentioned.

R1: For V4, I added more steel near the bottom of the huge wall in the middle.

R2: For V4, I added another flamethrower trap and smoothed out the starting platform completely.

R3: Ugh, people have been abusing that downward slanted platform left and right to backroute the level So, away it goes for V4 and as a result changed up the starting area a bit, some more terrain shifting, and added another fire trap.

Armani

R1: Wow, I'm quite surprised, because this is 100% intended! Icho still managed to backroute V3, therefore I released a V4 as mentioned above.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You got the main trick, which is to stop the shimmier with the laserer. Otherwise he'll keep going straight to his death into the fire trap. Nice job! Now, one could release him with a walker instead, but if you do that, you're not going to be able to get the level solved.

As you might had guessed, you could also swap the digger, miner, basher, and fencer skills to go from the other side instead. Meaning, you could also do the digging, bashing, and mining with the upper left lemming, as well as bash to the left with the bottom right lemming and fence with the bottom left lemming instead. This is of course entirely up to the player

Again, I'm happy to hear that you liked this level as much as you did the original from a few LDC's ago

R2: Both solutions are very bad backroutes. The changes I made for V4 are as I described above for Icho's solution

R3: Now we got further away from the intended solution with V3 than we did with V2 It's that downward slanted terrain that you, Icho, and Niesch have all abused to backroute the level Again, for V4 the changes are as described above for Icho's solution.   

[Armani]

I feel like all 3 are intended

[kaywhyn]

@Armani

Close R2 is an acceptable alternative, while R3 is exactly intended In the case of R2, one of the main tricks is there near the exit area, you simply did it in a different place. Other than that and a few skill swaps, you did indeed get the intended solution, therefore no changes are needed. Nice job! Phew, I knew R2 was going to be very problematic to fix, though maybe Icho will have something to say about that

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The stacker and then mining it to make a step up for the others near the exit area is where you did it differently. In my solution, I platformed up the water gap, then while the crowd is coming I stacked against the steel block and then mined to make a hole so the others can step up. Then it was simply two builders, one going to the left, the other going to the right, after placing a blocker at the end of the first staircase, to reach the exit. 

For R3, I like how the timing all works out before anyone gets into danger. A nice round number of 80 for the RR too

I attached my solution to my R2 for you to compare

[NieSch]

I feel like all 3 are intended

L-team is intended! Well done.

[IchoTolot]

Here are the resolves.

[kaywhyn]

@Icho

R1 and R2 are both 100% intended!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

For R1, you can of course swap the digger, bashing, and mining with the top right lemmings, as well as fence with the bottom right lemming and bash with the bottom left lemming. This is of course up to the player and therefore doesn't matter which side the assignments are on

Also as you might have noticed, a builderless level on top of it being based on the original "Sports-tacular Athletic Rescue Mission" from a few LDC's ago

Phew, before I watched your replay to R2 I was afraid that you backrouted it again, but nope, you got the intended solution I knew it was going to be a problematic level to fix, but what I was wrong about is that all of my entries needed the same number of fixes. Thus, R2 didn't need as much fixing as I thought. I guess I really thought deep about the root of the problems and succeeded this time I think what really did it though was that once I succeeded with

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

making the stoner the only way to safely contain the crowd at the start, as a stacker is too slow and will cause too many to slip by while it's in progress, then the rest of the solution fell into place

R3 is a similar backroute that was possible on an earlier version of the level that has apparently been made possible again with V4 For V5, I simply shifted the thin poles of the structure near the entrance, therefore blocking that jumper assignment you did This should be it now, but let's see!

[IchoTolot]

I have a feeling this should be it.

[Kingshadow3]

Resolves for Kingshadow3's and geoo's R2.

I think Kingshadow3's might be at least close to intended, but I have spare Lixes and skills for geoo's level. Although, I think it's closer than the first solution.

I'll accept this as an alternative solution.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The intended solution uses the trick of cancelling a basher with a walker midstroke to make a one way path onto the tail but using a stacker to turn the crowd around and using a walker to turn the climber I'll accept. A stacker is used to patch the flipper up instead of a platformer but you can use either skill. It's also possible to get from the platform on the right to the tail with a stacker, a walker and a builder. The main trick I wanted to enforce for this level was delaying the crowd with a basher

[kaywhyn]

I have a feeling this should be it.

You are correct, your solution to V5 of my R3 is indeed 100% intended now! Thanks again so much for the replays/solutions and for playing my levels. I hope you enjoyed them

[IchoTolot]

I uploaded my solutions to YouTube + also attached all replays here.

Part 1 (Lix): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJi3-okBZYE
Part 2 (NL): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LHr1Bhqhrs
Part 3 (My Own Levels): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozCrjmfDLv8