Author Topic: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)  (Read 14693 times)

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Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2023, 05:15:52 AM »
@geoo Your solution is actually intended. :thumbsup:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

@Simon
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
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Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2023, 05:38:33 AM »
And I played through all of rule2 and rule3 levels.(+updated rule1 levels ;))

Demolishing_Old_Ruins (click to show/hide)
Skyfall (click to show/hide)
Splash_or_Splat (click to show/hide)
Swim_Team_Rush (click to show/hide)
Direct_Drip (click to show/hide)
Mincemeat (click to show/hide)
Supreme_LEMCO_Safety_Standards (click to show/hide)
The_Magic_of_Lemmings (click to show/hide)
Lemmings_are_Beans (click to show/hide)
Jumpstone (click to show/hide)
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline Silken Healer

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Re: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2023, 06:26:12 AM »
Jumpstone (click to show/hide)

Well done Armani! That was the exact intended solution :thumbsup:

Re: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2023, 06:54:00 AM »
@Armani, your solution to my R3 was actually surprisingly close to the one I had in mind for the level. Seems like you experienced the overall feeling of the level I intended. :)
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Offline NieSch

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Re: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2023, 07:46:09 AM »
Splash_or_Splat (click to show/hide)

The_Magic_of_Lemmings (click to show/hide)

Both intended. Well done! :) Yes, the timing is (too) tight. I'll try to make this better/less frustrating some way.

4) Niesch's Rule 2 and 3 Splash or Splat, and The Magic of Lemmings

R2 is a backroute*, R3 is intended. Well done! 8-)

*I made a V5 now.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2023, 02:52:40 PM by NieSch »
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Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2023, 07:46:59 AM »
@Armani

You're actually the closest to my intended solutions to both of my levels out of anyone! :thumbsup: However, they still need some more patching.

R1 - Your first solution is similar to Simon's solution in that you both are about 97-98% intended except here you also did something unintended on the right side. Your second solution is a bit farther away. Both solutions do miss a trick I intended on the bottom left. For V5, I shifted the wooden plank with the needle traps on them to connect with the steel platform, shifted the structural terrain near the middle left a bit, and added some needle traps within the exit area on both sides.

R2 - Again, you're the closest out of anyone who has played this level to intended! :thumbsup: As you might had guessed, what you did at the very end is the only unintended part and also you avoid using one area of the level. For V5, I added more steel to the starting platform and a steel block where you did the mining and bashing, and sadly I had to take away another 20 seconds off the timer so that now you only get 4:30 for the level. Because this now breaks my replay, I made some adjustments in the top area by adding more terrain so that there's less walking around. As a result, my new intended solution finishes with a couple more extra seconds than previously, but it's still a bit tight.


Also in case you're wondering, yes I still intend to enter a R3, but I'm trying to make sure everything is ok with my R1 and R2 first before doing so. Plus with the idea I have in mind I feel it will be the least interesting of all my levels this contest similar to the previous one, especially since I think when people see it it should be pretty obvious what level I based it off of.   
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline Crane

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Re: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2023, 09:14:24 AM »
Well done on getting the talisman, Armani.  That's a tough one!

Also to add on to what Icho already said, backroutes happen to even the best of us. Yes, backroutes do hurt, but keep in mind that they don't necessarily mean the level isn't good. Rather, a level being solved with a backroute simply means that the intended solution isn't 100% enforced yet! I can think of plenty of times where I mentioned in my feedback that I thought the "level was great but I liked it even better now that it's fully patched up."

In regards to taking a look over packs/past content/past contests, this immediately sprung to my mind something I remember reading about, and that is a level by Crane from a very early contest. It was riddled with backroutes but it still ended up winning the contest it was in! Here, I fortunately remember Icho's list of previous contest results (thanks! :thumbsup:), so that tremendously helped to narrow down which discussion topics to look at. So, don't lose hope and encouragement! Again, backroutes don't make a level bad, just that the intended one isn't enforced yet.

Another example, but one of my own: My R2 from the previous contest. If you look at the update topic, it went through at least 20 versions! However, it was the most popular of my levels even though none of them ever made it past the rule voteoff. I had the thought that the many backroutes harmed it more than it should, and it did to some extent, but it was nevertheless the most popular of my levels in that contest.

Nevertheless, if backroutes are frustrating to you, then it's fine to take a break and come back and fix up the levels once you're good and ready. I had to do that for some of the past contests and I felt getting away from them for a time helped since they allowed me to look at them again with a clear mind and conscience to fix them. That sounds like what you're already doing, Tomato. Good idea! ;)
I don't actually remember that level.  Do you remember which one it was?

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2023, 09:48:06 AM »
Well done on getting the talisman, Armani.  That's a tough one!

Also to add on to what Icho already said, backroutes happen to even the best of us. Yes, backroutes do hurt, but keep in mind that they don't necessarily mean the level isn't good. Rather, a level being solved with a backroute simply means that the intended solution isn't 100% enforced yet! I can think of plenty of times where I mentioned in my feedback that I thought the "level was great but I liked it even better now that it's fully patched up."

In regards to taking a look over packs/past content/past contests, this immediately sprung to my mind something I remember reading about, and that is a level by Crane from a very early contest. It was riddled with backroutes but it still ended up winning the contest it was in! Here, I fortunately remember Icho's list of previous contest results (thanks! :thumbsup:), so that tremendously helped to narrow down which discussion topics to look at. So, don't lose hope and encouragement! Again, backroutes don't make a level bad, just that the intended one isn't enforced yet.

Another example, but one of my own: My R2 from the previous contest. If you look at the update topic, it went through at least 20 versions! However, it was the most popular of my levels even though none of them ever made it past the rule voteoff. I had the thought that the many backroutes harmed it more than it should, and it did to some extent, but it was nevertheless the most popular of my levels in that contest.

Nevertheless, if backroutes are frustrating to you, then it's fine to take a break and come back and fix up the levels once you're good and ready. I had to do that for some of the past contests and I felt getting away from them for a time helped since they allowed me to look at them again with a clear mind and conscience to fix them. That sounds like what you're already doing, Tomato. Good idea! ;)
I don't actually remember that level.  Do you remember which one it was?

Precarious construction part 2, which I believe I have played when I started my LP of all the contest entries a while back. I don't remember if I used all the skills, I'll have to check.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2023, 05:49:32 PM »
@Armani: Both solutions are intended! :thumbsup:

And yes, my R2 is intentionally on the easier side as I try to incorperate a few levels here and there that are solvable without too many problems for the sanity of the players. ;)

Offline Crane

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Re: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2023, 05:09:57 AM »
I'll say my level is on the easier side for once as well.  If you just take a deep breath and go to it, things fall into place with the skills you have.

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2023, 03:49:25 AM »
Resolved all the updated levels ;)
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2023, 04:58:35 AM »
@Armani

Your solutions to both my R1 and R2 are now about 98% - 99% intended! Meaning, we're not quite there yet, and I think the V6's will seal the deal on them :laugh:

R1 - This one still avoids a trick I intended on the bottom left. For V6, I added in a 1:50 timer. Yes, I thought about making one of the stackers a pickup instead, but I honestly don't want to disrupt the X-of-everything skillset from the get-go :P In any case, you just need to tweak the bottom left a bit and you should be good to go. Other than that, your replay is essentially the exact same as mine! I can assure everyone that the timer allows plenty of leeway, and I could even add in an extra 5 seconds, but I'll just keep it currently at 1:50 for now.

R2 - What, you mean to tell me that I misplaced that steel block near the exit? Ok, this was a complete dumb on my part :forehead: For V6, I simply shifted that steel block near the exit a few pixels to the right. I originally just shifted it 1 pixel, but let's better be safe than sorry, so let's do a few extra pixels over :P

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Re: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2023, 02:58:34 PM »
@Armani Both solutions are pretty much intended! :thumbsup:

I did update my R2 just now, however, as you revealed some potential for other backroutes by finding a way to save a skill. I don't know if that extra skill would lead to anything disastrous, but better safe than sorry. :P

Offline Armani

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Re: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2023, 04:37:33 AM »
Resolved updated levels.
All seem good now :laugh:
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2023, 05:48:25 AM »
@Armani

Your solutions to my R1 and R2 differ in a few details but are pretty much intended! :thumbsup: Well done!

R1 - Perfect, now your solution pretty much contains all the tricks I intended! :thumbsup: Basically the title here serves as a bit of a hint.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

R2 - Intended! :thumbsup:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Thanks so much for playing my levels, and I hope you liked them ;) Stay tuned for my R3 which will hopefully be ready soon. I put it off longer than I needed to and should sit down with the editor and make it soon! :laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0